Uniti - HDMI to TV

Posted by: Obsydian on 07 October 2017

Out of the box this work fine, my tv has ARC support, I could simply quick select speaker output to the Nova job done.

But now  whatever I do the TV will no longer detect the HDMI input, tried a Nova reset to manually setup with the TV, but every which way the Nova does not play ball.

TV wise nothing has changed, only the Naim app software updates but see no link there.

Anyone any ideas, having the same, having no issues or just finding HDMI yet another input not being used.

Posted on: 19 October 2017 by Phil Harris
YiannisK posted:

Just tested a bit with Airplay - HDMI - Spotify. It appears that Airplay has 'priority' over volume level setting. I launched itunes on my Mac and I started streaming to the Nova. I used the itunes volume slider (on the mac) to set the volume at say 35. If I stop the playback and then switch input to Spotify or HDMI the volume level carries over (35). Conversely though, If i start streaming via spotify and set the volume to say 25, once I stop and start streaming via itunes again, the volume on the Nova reverts to 35. I suspect this is to do with airplay and how the volume slider level transmits to the Nova. 

If I go from HDMI to Spotify the volume levels remain at how they were set for each. 

Not sure if that was what you were looking for. I do not think the above is a bug but rather a way that airplay 'dominates' the volume slider of the Nova.

 

Hi,

Apple certification requires that the AirPlay volume (set by the source device) takes over from any local settings.

Best

Phil

Posted on: 19 October 2017 by Phil Harris
Simon-in-Suffolk posted:
David Hendon posted:
Simon Frequency posted:

 

My dealer suggested that using the Server option was better as this used the Atom's internal buffer, where as the direct connection relied on the Core feeding the Atom at just the right rate.

This sounds like nonsense to me. I know the Atom has a big buffer because I remember reading a posting from Naim that said the Tidal strategy of the new Unitis was to get the whole track over to the Atom asap and play it from the buffer. Apparently you can disconnect the Atom from the network while it is playing and it will play on to the end of the track.

Why would Naim not use the same approach to upnp, especially as there could be home network congestion if people are using wifi rather than Ethernet?

Maybe Phil might comment?

best

David

It is nonsense, the Unitis have a new architecture for streaming and pull the track back as quickly as possible and play from memory. I saw a prototype trace ... and I don’t think this has changed in production, as this is a big plus with the new architecture, including the removing vagaries of boutique Ethernet cables etc ... also it’s not so much congestion... it’s more about throughput consistency and latency variation as opposed to congestion and dropped data.

Simon

Hi,

On an Atom / Star / Nova the unit is typically able to buffer up to around 70Mbytes (dependent on the source "input") if I remember correctly.

Best

Phil

Posted on: 19 October 2017 by Simon-in-Suffolk

Thanks Phil for confirming this great benefit is carried forward from the prototypes to production

Simon

 

 

Posted on: 19 October 2017 by Obsydian
YiannisK posted:

Just tested a bit with Airplay - HDMI - Spotify. It appears that Airplay has 'priority' over volume level setting. I launched itunes on my Mac and I started streaming to the Nova. I used the itunes volume slider (on the mac) to set the volume at say 35. If I stop the playback and then switch input to Spotify or HDMI the volume level carries over (35). Conversely though, If i start streaming via spotify and set the volume to say 25, once I stop and start streaming via itunes again, the volume on the Nova reverts to 35. I suspect this is to do with airplay and how the volume slider level transmits to the Nova. 

If I go from HDMI to Spotify the volume levels remain at how they were set for each. 

Not sure if that was what you were looking for. I do not think the above is a bug but rather a way that airplay 'dominates' the volume slider of the Nova.

 

Thanks. No for me Tidal, USB and Spotify all stay the same when switching around 25. But when switching to HDMI it would need to be >70 to achieve a similar level aforementioned.

Major issue was when I swapped back to Tidal or USB, the Nova retained the >70 volume setting, queue messy pants.

Posted on: 19 October 2017 by YiannisK
Obsydian posted:
YiannisK posted:

Just tested a bit with Airplay - HDMI - Spotify. It appears that Airplay has 'priority' over volume level setting. I launched itunes on my Mac and I started streaming to the Nova. I used the itunes volume slider (on the mac) to set the volume at say 35. If I stop the playback and then switch input to Spotify or HDMI the volume level carries over (35). Conversely though, If i start streaming via spotify and set the volume to say 25, once I stop and start streaming via itunes again, the volume on the Nova reverts to 35. I suspect this is to do with airplay and how the volume slider level transmits to the Nova. 

If I go from HDMI to Spotify the volume levels remain at how they were set for each. 

Not sure if that was what you were looking for. I do not think the above is a bug but rather a way that airplay 'dominates' the volume slider of the Nova.

 

Thanks. No for me Tidal, USB and Spotify all stay the same when switching around 25. But when switching to HDMI it would need to be >70 to achieve a similar level aforementioned.

Major issue was when I swapped back to Tidal or USB, the Nova retained the >70 volume setting, queue messy pants.

I see what you mean. Having to raise volume to 70 for HDMI would certainly be a problem when switching to other sources. In my case (Samsung TV with HDMI ARC to Nova) I have not needed to raise the volume beyond 40 for movies.  Even so I had to be mindful to reduce the volume a bit before starting music when switching to Spotify.  Small inconvenience in my opinion especially as my previous setup involved 3 different remotes, manual switching of sources at the Dac (Rega) and volume adjustments from both streaming app and the amplifier. Now that was complex...

Posted on: 20 October 2017 by ChrisSU
Phil Harris posted:
Simon-in-Suffolk posted:
David Hendon posted:
Simon Frequency posted:

 

My dealer suggested that using the Server option was better as this used the Atom's internal buffer, where as the direct connection relied on the Core feeding the Atom at just the right rate.

This sounds like nonsense to me. I know the Atom has a big buffer because I remember reading a posting from Naim that said the Tidal strategy of the new Unitis was to get the whole track over to the Atom asap and play it from the buffer. Apparently you can disconnect the Atom from the network while it is playing and it will play on to the end of the track.

Why would Naim not use the same approach to upnp, especially as there could be home network congestion if people are using wifi rather than Ethernet?

Maybe Phil might comment?

best

David

It is nonsense, the Unitis have a new architecture for streaming and pull the track back as quickly as possible and play from memory. I saw a prototype trace ... and I don’t think this has changed in production, as this is a big plus with the new architecture, including the removing vagaries of boutique Ethernet cables etc ... also it’s not so much congestion... it’s more about throughput consistency and latency variation as opposed to congestion and dropped data.

Simon

Hi,

On an Atom / Star / Nova the unit is typically able to buffer up to around 70Mbytes (dependent on the source "input") if I remember correctly.

I’ve been doing some highly technical investigation of this, by pulling the RJ45 plug out of my Atom while looking at my watch. Over UPnP, a CD rip continues to play for about 3 minutes (but not necessarily to the end of a track). You need to leave it a few seconds after play starts, or it will cut out sooner. 24/96 streams cut out after about 15 seconds. So it’s not loading up whole tracks, but certainly more than the old streamers, which cut out much faster.

 

 

Posted on: 20 October 2017 by Obsydian
YiannisK posted:
Obsydian posted:
YiannisK posted:

Just tested a bit with Airplay - HDMI - Spotify. It appears that Airplay has 'priority' over volume level setting. I launched itunes on my Mac and I started streaming to the Nova. I used the itunes volume slider (on the mac) to set the volume at say 35. If I stop the playback and then switch input to Spotify or HDMI the volume level carries over (35). Conversely though, If i start streaming via spotify and set the volume to say 25, once I stop and start streaming via itunes again, the volume on the Nova reverts to 35. I suspect this is to do with airplay and how the volume slider level transmits to the Nova. 

If I go from HDMI to Spotify the volume levels remain at how they were set for each. 

Not sure if that was what you were looking for. I do not think the above is a bug but rather a way that airplay 'dominates' the volume slider of the Nova.

 

Thanks. No for me Tidal, USB and Spotify all stay the same when switching around 25. But when switching to HDMI it would need to be >70 to achieve a similar level aforementioned.

Major issue was when I swapped back to Tidal or USB, the Nova retained the >70 volume setting, queue messy pants.

I see what you mean. Having to raise volume to 70 for HDMI would certainly be a problem when switching to other sources. In my case (Samsung TV with HDMI ARC to Nova) I have not needed to raise the volume beyond 40 for movies.  Even so I had to be mindful to reduce the volume a bit before starting music when switching to Spotify.  Small inconvenience in my opinion especially as my previous setup involved 3 different remotes, manual switching of sources at the Dac (Rega) and volume adjustments from both streaming app and the amplifier. Now that was complex...

Thanks Yiannis - i just got a call from my dealer, no Herion, but better they have my replacement Nova.

Posted on: 20 October 2017 by Eoink
ChrisSU posted:
Phil Harris posted:

***SNIP***

Hi,

On an Atom / Star / Nova the unit is typically able to buffer up to around 70Mbytes (dependent on the source "input") if I remember correctly.

I’ve been doing some highly technical investigation of this, by pulling the RJ45 plug out of my Atom while looking at my watch. Over UPnP, a CD rip continues to play for about 3 minutes (but not necessarily to the end of a track). You need to leave it a few seconds after play starts, or it will cut out sooner. 24/96 streams cut out after about 15 seconds. So it’s not loading up whole tracks, but certainly more than the old streamers, which cut out much faster.

 

 

I think that roughly hits the same ballpark as Phil's buffer size, not quite, but close. From (my pretty flaky) memory, CD rips need about 1.4Mb/s, and 24/96 about 8.4Mb/s. So 3 mins of CD rip would be 180secs*1.4Mb/s = 252Mb, or about 32 MB. Then 15 secs of 24/96 would be 15 secs * 8.4 Mb/s  = 126 Mb, or about 16Mb. (The discrepancy of of a nearly perfect factor of 2 makes me think that my memory of the 24/96 bandwidth is out by that factor.)

 

Posted on: 20 October 2017 by Simon-in-Suffolk

24/96 equals 4,608,000 bits in a second (24x96,000x2. remember it’s stereo), equals 576,000 bytes in a second.... now the memory of the buffer may well be cast as 32 bit words, so the memory consumed will be larger, ie 768,000 bytes in a second (576,000 x 32/24)

Posted on: 20 October 2017 by Obsydian

So replacement Nova installed.

Interesting volume wheel and front facial seems different so was the plastic covering possibly new source.

Anyway plugged in, updated it sent my TV into a wobbly, so opted to tray USB, Tidal. No issues if anything the phone and Nova flip flopping source in particular that DARN app was nice and fluid, though Nova lagged with its display versus the app.

The HDMI had to iniiate from the Nova, then it was all go as before (well before the problem), volume at around 45 was good not loud be just right.

Again flip flopped sources including HDMI, again no issues, so so far happy OVERALL.

Soundwise seems different but going from a well run in Nova to cold expected, but I felt on familir test tracks seemed more detailed and open.

Fingers crossed app and hardware stay stable and sit back and enjoy.

Posted on: 20 October 2017 by Obsydian

Also not getting a horrible cheap relay switch sound when powering on and off.