New speakers

That's a bit like asking us what flavour of ice cream you'll like best.

The 250DR will drive almost anything well, even some really difficult loads.  The 200 is still quite load tolerant, but not as markedly so as the 250.

Do remember that both of these amps need inductance in the speaker cables and, for electrical reasons, will benefit from a minimum of 3.5m of NAC A5 on each side.

Assuming that AC is St. Helena, Tristan da Cunha and Ascension I can see why auditioning might be a challenge. Is the dealer not able to ship speakers to you for you to try? Assuming that the answer is ‘no’, it’s sonething of a lottery. I used to own PMC’s previous twenty.23 and really liked them. I’ve also heard Kudos’s C20 and liked them too. It’s a bit of a lottery really, but either should be ok if you can get them a foot or so from the wall. Get the 250DR though, as both speakers benefit from the extra power. An XPS DR would be good too, if you can manage it. 

Thank you for the info.

The problem is there are very few  PMC and Neat dealers in sweden. Non where i live.

So AC is Sweden. As it’s not an island surely you can travel to listen? Surely there are other choices available in Sweden. I heard some Dynaudio Contour 20s the other day and they were excellent. Surely they are available  locally?

Yes a have heard Dynaudio a couple of times but they are not my cop of coffee.

Morgan J posted:

Yes a have heard Dynaudio a couple of times but they are not my cop of coffee.

That'll be down to the cables ...

Is there no way you could wait until you could visit the area with a dealer that could demo speakers like neat, PMC, Kudos and any others they stock. If i had just taken a blind guess from views on this forum I could have ended up with speakers that were OK, but in the end I just loved the way PMC 25.26 sounded, it’s a very personal choice the way music is perceived.

Speakers are so subjective - even in a high price bracket they can be as different in character as the taste of chalk and cheese - that of all components speakers I really would not buy without hearing, if not the specific model then one very similar. By that I mean, if you hear  and like or dislike, say, a particular PMC speaker, there is a good chance that you will feel similarly about another PMC speaker, at least within the same family or evolution path, allowing, allowing for knowledge from specs and reviews that can hint at the differences between them - but you might feel the exact opposite about some other brand or even family of speakers. And other people's opinions, including thise of reviewers, really can't tell you enough unless you know from experience that your soeaker likes and dislikes are the same as his/hers.

Unless you have confidence in being able to return them or move them on readily if they don't suit, my suggestion would be to have a short break to a place where you can hear a good selection before deciding, even if that means going to another country - at least in Europe that should not be very difficult or even very expensive (though obviously the lower your budget the less it is worth The cost.

Have you heard Larsen? They'd be home grown for you and look interesting but would probably need an audition and a good solid wall behind them.

Innocent Bystander posted:

Speakers are so subjective - even in a high price bracket they can be as different in character as the taste of chalk and cheese - that of all components speakers I really would not buy without hearing, if not the specific model then one very similar. By that I mean, if you hear  and like or dislike, say, a particular PMC speaker, there is a good chance that you will feel similarly about another PMC speaker, at least within the same family or evolution path, allowing, allowing for knowledge from specs and reviews that can hint at the differences between them - but you might feel the exact opposite about some other brand or even family of speakers. And other people's opinions, including thise of reviewers, really can't tell you enough unless you know from experience that your soeaker likes and dislikes are the same as his/hers.

Unless you have confidence in being able to return them or move them on readily if they don't suit, my suggestion would be to have a short break to a place where you can hear a good selection before deciding, even if that means going to another country - at least in Europe that should not be very difficult or even very expensive (though obviously the lower your budget the less it is worth The cost.

Unless we have the good fortune of experiencing the (brilliant) KEF Reference series -in which case no one walks away unimpressed. In fact, one often leaves not quite the same as before the listening session. Such is the power of great equipment and music ...

pj

allhifi posted:

Innocent Bystander posted:

Speakers are so subjective - even in a high price bracket they can be as different in character as the taste of chalk and cheese - that of all components speakers I really would not buy without hearing, if not the specific model then one very similar. By that I mean, if you hear  and like or dislike, say, a particular PMC speaker, there is a good chance that you will feel similarly about another PMC speaker, at least within the same family or evolution path, allowing, allowing for knowledge from specs and reviews that can hint at the differences between them - but you might feel the exact opposite about some other brand or even family of speakers. And other people's opinions, including thise of reviewers, really can't tell you enough unless you know from experience that your soeaker likes and dislikes are the same as his/hers.

Unless you have confidence in being able to return them or move them on readily if they don't suit, my suggestion would be to have a short break to a place where you can hear a good selection before deciding, even if that means going to another country - at least in Europe that should not be very difficult or even very expensive (though obviously the lower your budget the less it is worth The cost.

Unless we have the good fortune of experiencing the (brilliant) KEF Reference series -in which case no one walks away unimpressed. In fact, one often leaves not quite the same as before the listening session. Such is the power of great equipment and music ...

pj

That might be true -or might not. Given how very different speakers even at quite exalted price brackets can sound, they are clearly all (or potentially all but one!) far from perfect as reproducers of an acoustic copy of the signal presented to them (at least in real rooms), so I would not count on any individual necessarily liking the character of any speaker.  

Of course, we could all suggest possibilities that might receive near universal acclaim if heard (though undoubtedly no suggestion would receive universal love. I would suggest PMC and ATC pro speakers, abd fir seriously big rooms maybe Tannoy Westminster Royals...

In this day and age.   For a good price for a loudspeaker for a good system - think from 2k - you would have to try really hard in finding anything that sounded nothing less than great.   Unless it was a vintage speaker that cost many thousands of £s back in the day.

On a good day you could pick up a pair of B&W Matrix 800 for a good price.

james n posted:

Morgan J posted:

Yes a have heard Dynaudio a couple of times but they are not my cop of coffee.

That'll be down to the cables ...

Cable choice down to speaker cable -I assume you're suggesting ?

pj

TOBYJUG posted:

In this day and age.   For a good price for a loudspeaker for a good system - think from 2k - you would have to try really hard in finding anything that sounded nothing less than great.   Unless it was a vintage speaker that cost many thousands of £s back in the day.

Two-thousand (BP$ or US$) there are far too many sub-par examples (in this country anyway -lol) 

In fact, it's quite easy to easily list several below 10K/pair (CA$) that wold bring the wrong kind of tears to one's eyes . Argh ...

pj

Innocent Bystander posted:

allhifi posted:

Innocent Bystander posted:

Speakers are so subjective - even in a high price bracket they can be as different in character as the taste of chalk and cheese - that of all components speakers I really would not buy without hearing, if not the specific model then one very similar. By that I mean, if you hear  and like or dislike, say, a particular PMC speaker, there is a good chance that you will feel similarly about another PMC speaker, at least within the same family or evolution path, allowing, allowing for knowledge from specs and reviews that can hint at the differences between them - but you might feel the exact opposite about some other brand or even family of speakers. And other people's opinions, including thise of reviewers, really can't tell you enough unless you know from experience that your soeaker likes and dislikes are the same as his/hers.

Unless you have confidence in being able to return them or move them on readily if they don't suit, my suggestion would be to have a short break to a place where you can hear a good selection before deciding, even if that means going to another country - at least in Europe that should not be very difficult or even very expensive (though obviously the lower your budget the less it is worth The cost.

Unless we have the good fortune of experiencing the (brilliant) KEF Reference series -in which case no one walks away unimpressed. In fact, one often leaves not quite the same as before the listening session. Such is the power of great equipment and music ...

pj

That might be true -or might not. Given how very different speakers even at quite exalted price brackets can sound, they are clearly all (or potentially all but one!) far from perfect as reproducers of an acoustic copy of the signal presented to them (at least in real rooms), so I would not count on any individual necessarily liking the character of any speaker.  

Of course, we could all suggest possibilities that might receive near universal acclaim if heard (though undoubtedly no suggestion would receive universal love. I would suggest PMC and ATC pro speakers, abd fir seriously big rooms maybe Tannoy Westminster Royals...

I have yet to hear of ONE listener (regardless of room acoustic it appears) that have not been slack-jawed after a listening session with the ref's.

pj

(Have you had the opportunity?) 

I tried the Kef Reference 205.2. Would they count?

Haaha -No !

pj

P.S. Alan Sircom's (October, 2015 Hi-Fi +) review may sum it up best:

" There will be people who choose another tonal palette, who demand a bigger, smaller, cheaper, more expensive, or simply more fiddly loudspeaker to justify their place in the audiophile diaspora. There will be people who don’t like the piano black or wood cabinet with contrasting brushed front baffle, or the solid boxy shape. These (and more) are reasons you’d buy or prefer another loudspeaker: understandable, justifiable reasons. But that shouldn’t preclude understanding what the KEF Reference 1 is trying (and mostly succeeding) to do. Although I get why people might like another speaker, I simply can’t see how someone could dislike this one. It’s astonishingly good. If these were any more highly recommended, they’d be locking me up in a rubber room!

http://www.hifiplus.com/articl...-loudspeaker/?page=4

allhifi posted:

Innocent Bystander posted:

allhifi posted:

Innocent Bystander posted:

Speakers are so subjective - even in a high price bracket they can be as different in character as the taste of chalk and cheese - that of all components speakers I really would not buy without hearing, if not the specific model then one very similar. By that I mean, if you hear  and like or dislike, say, a particular PMC speaker, there is a good chance that you will feel similarly about another PMC speaker, at least within the same family or evolution path, allowing, allowing for knowledge from specs and reviews that can hint at the differences between them - but you might feel the exact opposite about some other brand or even family of speakers. And other people's opinions, including thise of reviewers, really can't tell you enough unless you know from experience that your soeaker likes and dislikes are the same as his/hers.

Unless you have confidence in being able to return them or move them on readily if they don't suit, my suggestion would be to have a short break to a place where you can hear a good selection before deciding, even if that means going to another country - at least in Europe that should not be very difficult or even very expensive (though obviously the lower your budget the less it is worth The cost.

Unless we have the good fortune of experiencing the (brilliant) KEF Reference series -in which case no one walks away unimpressed. In fact, one often leaves not quite the same as before the listening session. Such is the power of great equipment and music ...

pj

That might be true -or might not. Given how very different speakers even at quite exalted price brackets can sound, they are clearly all (or potentially all but one!) far from perfect as reproducers of an acoustic copy of the signal presented to them (at least in real rooms), so I would not count on any individual necessarily liking the character of any speaker.  

Of course, we could all suggest possibilities that might receive near universal acclaim if heard (though undoubtedly no suggestion would receive universal love. I would suggest PMC and ATC pro speakers, abd fir seriously big rooms maybe Tannoy Westminster Royals...

I have yet to hear of ONE listener (regardless of room acoustic it appears) that have not been slack-jawed after a listening session with the ref's.

pj

(Have you had the opportunity?) 

No, I haven't heard, so no idea what camp I'd be in. 

For a couple of years I had KEF reference speakers but eventually replaced them.  My son has them now, so I still get a chance to listen to them but feel no slackening of my jaw when listening.  My current PMC Fact speakers are much more to my taste and communicate the music in a way which the KEFs never did.

"I have yet to hear of ONE listener (regardless of room acoustic it appears) that have not been slack-jawed after a listening session with the ref's.

pj"

So now you have.

Sorry.

Roger

Yes. KEF speakers esp the Reference range have mostly a presentation in which the soundstage falls back behind the plane of them. Where many of the other brands that get a mention within this forum have a more Brit box forward presentation, that suits and flows in the same direction with Naim.   Apart from Dynaudio and Proac who seem to occupy that middle ground. In that they truthfully present what's in the recording.

Maybe Audiovector is worth it to try? 

Morgan, I also live in Sweden and yes PMC has not been the most common brand here, but I understand the previous Naim distrubutors is taking over the distribution so they might be in a store close to you in a not to distant future? Neat, are distributed by the current Naim distributor and should be one of the more easy auditions with Naim gear in Sweden today. 

There must be a lot of options in Sweeden. Most of them not what everybody in Uk regards as must have speakers, but other brands can work as good or better than the regular brands talked about on this forum. I am not sure how much you want to pay for speakers, but audiovector, Systemaudio, Scansonic or at a higher price Raidho may be available near you. And of course other swedish brands. 

TOBYJUG posted:

Yes. KEF speakers esp the Reference range have mostly a presentation in which the soundstage falls back behind the plane of them. Where many of the other brands that get a mention within this forum have a more Brit box forward presentation, that suits and flows in the same direction with Naim.   Apart from Dynaudio and Proac who seem to occupy that middle ground. In that they truthfully present what's in the recording.

And how do you know that? I have heard rather expensive Dynaudio with expensive Hegelbb

gear and in no way would I own these speakers!  

Claus

TOBYJUG posted:

Yes. KEF speakers esp the Reference range have mostly a presentation in which the soundstage falls back behind the plane of them. Where many of the other brands that get a mention within this forum have a more Brit box forward presentation, that suits and flows in the same direction with Naim.   Apart from Dynaudio and Proac who seem to occupy that middle ground. In that they truthfully present what's in the recording.

My speakers present the sound in front, behind, above, and to the sides of the speakers - sometimes even to the side of me, all depending on what is playing (or presumably how it is recorded). Of course, I can't know what the spatial soind balance was as recorded/mastered, so I've no idea if it is exactly as in the recording.