Buying an NDS today ?

I bought a used one at the end of last year. I wouldn’t buy a new one. You’re paying a lot for the warranty 

It's still probably the best source you can buy from Naim.

Naim have moved onto a different streaming platform with the new Uniti products so that will eventually trickle into a new range. I don't think connectivity and DAC design have moved on significantly (if at all) to make the NDS past its sell by date. 

Ok. The question stands even for a used one...5 year old chips....can they compare with current ones? Think about laptops etc. Or new products from competition? Would nai not want to incorporate new possibilities leveraging newer chips?

nestor burma posted:

the NDS is now more than 5 years old. Thinking about the speed of changes in connectivity and chips (Moore s law), you cannot help thinking that a hardware upgrade is on the way, independently from the software ...? 

Does it then make sense to buy one today? In fact is it still competitive?

Thanks for your views

 

 

 

if you like naim sound, there is no better naim source. Nds2 may come this year or in 3-4 years...nobody knows.  There are more recent streaming dacs from simaudio, linn, bricasti and audiomat, perhaps technically better, but without the naim typical sound.

Perhaps second hand nds?

nestor burma posted:

Ok. The question stands even for a used one...5 year old chips....can they compare with current ones? Think about laptops etc. Or new products from competition? Would nai not want to incorporate new possibilities leveraging newer chips?

DAC technology hasn't changed much over the last few years. New devices may have more functionality but from a SQ point of view are not always better. The other thing to bear in mind is that Naim know how to get the very best out of the Burr Brown DAC chips used in the NDS as they have a lot of experience in using these devices. 

I agree that naim knows best how to use the current chips. So I imagine what they will be capable of doing with the newer ones (5 years)....that is what is holding me back from buying even a used one (say at 50% of list price) since i already have a cdp 555, so i can wait a bit. For instance using a chromecast to feed the Nac 552...which is not so good but not horrible either. So that is the question

There's always something new going to come along - you just have to make the decision. Red book is still excellent quality and unless you are bothered about the latest fads, DSD and now MQA etc, the NDS is likely to give you years of pleasure. If you want to be able to access the latest services then perhaps a separate Streamer and DAC would allow for graceful obsolescence. On the other hand the NDS has a S/PDIF output so if things did move on significantly in the DAC world then you could 'upgrade', unlike the CD555. 

You wait for the new platform NDS, which will come at some point, or get a used current one at half the price. Nobody can tell you what to do. Just decide. And remember that, just because something new exists, the existing one does not become worse. 

Agreed, the purpose of this post is exactly this. I'm fishing to assess whether there is some information put there that I do not know...like a nds 2 launch rumor, or about nds obsolesence vs competition in SQ or functionalities or else. So far the outcome is that the NDS SQ is still at the top...so a purchase of a used one still makes sense, especially since I do not need to purchase PS as I imagine I can switch them from the cdp on the fly...

nestor burma posted:

I do not need to purchase PS as I imagine I can switch them from the cdp on the fly...

Yes - you'd effectively just be swapping head units (and adding a suitable network connection / NAS) - everything else stays the same. 

You can indeed use the CD555PS on the NDS. The fact you have 2 CD555PSDRs is even better as the NDS is even better with a pair of these.

I would be more concerned about the 'redundancy' and second hand prices of your CD555 than the NDS being replaced. At least the technology (i.e. streaming) will still be current. Possibly a bigger consideration for you is which source gives you most musical enjoyment. Some still prefer the CD555's presentation whereas others prefer the NDS's presentation together with the added operational convenience of streaming.

Is there any possibility of you hearing a NDS in your or a similar system in China so you can compare the two sources?

What i would need the nds for is the streaming from Qobuz, really, as well as some purchased files...i do not plan for now to transfer all my cds and store them...since qobuz has most of them anyway.

And sorry, i need to update my address as I just relocated to Paris!

OK but Qobuz streaming will never sound as good as locally streamed CD rips and as such the NDS's potentential SQ would not be realised on your CD collection if you choose to listen to these albums via Qobuz.

Ripping all your CDs is a one off pain but well worth it to gain the added SQ that the NDS can deliver with good rips. And if you prefer the NDS presentation, your CD555 would truely be redundant and you could sell it and use the funds to swap out the NDS for a NDS2 if and when it arrives.

nestor burma posted:

I agree that naim knows best how to use the current chips. So I imagine what they will be capable of doing with the newer ones (5 years)....that is what is holding me back from buying even a used one (say at 50% of list price) since i already have a cdp 555, so i can wait a bit. For instance using a chromecast to feed the Nac 552...which is not so good but not horrible either. So that is the question

 

the dac inside the nds is from the late nineties....from what i read once in a review.  But there is not only a dac(multiple dacs) in the nds....

Regarding SQ of streamed Qobuz, my experience with ...chromecast is that when i locally download to my iphone before streaming locally then the SQ goes up noticeably. As local download is very quick this might save me the chore of ripping all my cds. Of course i have a few that are not on qobuz...,

If I understand you correctly and you are downloading a Qobuz file to your iPhone and are streaming from your iPhone (using Bluetooth, AirPlay?) to a streamer other than a NDS, then you will have no idea of the capabilty of the NDS when playing a locally streamed CD rip. Listen to a well known album and compare the SQ playing the CD on your CD555 and then listen to the same Qobuz downloaded album file from your iPhone. This should give you some idea of what you would be missing.

You would of course need a means of ripping your CDs (a decent computer should suffice) and a server (here a decent NAS with decent UPnP software should suffice).

i agree with nigel B : ripped cd sound better than streaming directly from qobuz.  But if you buy downloads from qobuz in 16/44 format, they will sound the same as ripped cd.

For second 555ps, there is no absolute truth : some find the nds sound better with second 555ps, other not. Perhaps is there a little more persons who prefer the additional ps....

If you have a lot of cds, i recommend you the uniticore......it will rip very easily all your cds and stock your downloads like a nas.

I think the case for a NDS still holds. It's a great source which still beats most devices on the market. You never can predict when a new NDS or even ND555 might come on the market. In case the NDS get's a version 2 I assume Naim will offer a reasonable upgrade path. And for the time being you will have enjoyed the NDS already. In case of a ND555 - you still have a desirable streamer. 

In order to reduce a bit the pain you could try to look at a demo NDS or a pre-loved one. I am sure you will start using your CD555 less and less....

nestor burma posted:

Regarding SQ of streamed Qobuz, my experience with ...chromecast is that when i locally download to my iphone before streaming locally then the SQ goes up noticeably. As local download is very quick this might save me the chore of ripping all my cds. Of course i have a few that are not on qobuz...,

Ps your current way of listening to streaming can in no way be compared with the NDS experience. It could be Okish for mobile use, while even there better options exist, but it's light years away from the NDS.

Just to clarify. I am sure i need an nds now. What i'm still trying to conclude is whether once i hzvr the nds i really need to rip all my cds.? My assumption is that i can get the same sound by streaming files from my iphone that are locally downloaded within the Qobuz app, into the nds.

the key here is this recent possibility from streaming sites to download loczlly within the app.

if thos holds true, once i have the nds i do not need to rip as i can access the whole qobuz library with the only small inconvenience of having to download locally before...?

I'm fairly sure you'll find that sound quality playing Qobuz from an iPhone will be disappointing. The general consensus is that Tidal lossless, which is integrated so that it will stream natively from Naim streamers, still isn't as good as local streaming from ripped CDs. In your position, I would get a CD ripping solution if you go for an NDS. 

There is some optimism that Naim's new streaming platform will give web streaming services the same sound quality as local streaming, but for that, you will have to wait and see......

To clarify...what do you call local streaming? If i have a file, with cd resolution,  locally on my iphone, and stream it to the nds isn't that locally streaming too?

nestor burma posted:

To clarify...what do you call local streaming? If i have a file, with cd resolution,  locally on my iphone, and stream it to the nds isn't that locally streaming too?

For most people it means using a NAS to store music files (CD rips or downloads) with a UPnP server software running on the NAS. This plays over your network to a streamer such as the NDS you are considering. An iPhone is just the controller. If you have a large music collection, storing it all on a phone doesn't really make much sense.

 What if you store the same file on your iphone and use it as the server to stream it to the nds. Will the sound be different than if streamed from the server?