Buying an NDS today ?

Actually i meant using the iphone as nas.

Using a phone plugged into USB sounds a lot worse than streaming from a nas. The user interface is also much worse. 

Ok but I would stream from the iphone using the wifi into the nds. In other words the nds would get the file wirelessly from my iphone exactly as he would do from the nas.

Look, we are all giving you the same advice. The use of your iPhone is far from optimal and will never give you any where near the quality of streaming CD rips or hi res downloads from a NAS to the NDS. Most CDs are not available as hi res downloads so the only alternative is to rip your CDs or at least rip those you play the most to start with.

If you are not prepared to rip your CDs and buy a NAS you will simply be wasting your money on a NDS. Paris must have a good Naim dealer or at least a Naim importer who can talk you through all of this.

I would not buy an NDS/NDX today due to the dated streaming capabilities and interface. 

@NigelB, look i'm a rational person. I try to understand your opinion. Are you saying that the sound quality streaming wirelessly to the nds is different if the file is stored on a nas or an iphone in the same room? If yes then i will have learned something.

Yes Nestor, that is correct. NAS for some reason out-streams an iPhone. In addition, streaming over Ethernet cable sound better than over wifi.

So streaming to an NDS from a NAS over Ethernet, or from something like a Melco unit via USB cable are both much more musically satisfying than streaming from an iPhone over wifi.

Hope this helps, FT

engjoo posted:

I would not buy an NDS/NDX today due to the dated streaming capabilities and interface. 

Wow - I have an NDS/555PS and if this is what dated sounds I’d buy another any day. At my age some consider me to be dated

There’s  a lot of hype re new dangled stuff as a Naim employee who recently had a jaw dropping moment listening to my 1980s fully restored Revox B77. Come to think of it my NAT01 must be dated too.....heeelpppp!

engjoo posted:

I would not buy an NDS/NDX today due to the dated streaming capabilities and interface. 

But if you like the 'Naim' sound, then there's no better option today. And as said above, they are becoming available on the secondhand market now which would make them more accessible to more potential users.

[@mention:1566878603891419], i understand the point that cable streaming wins over wifi streaming. This is important to know. But now just for my understanding, in case of only wifi streaming...then is the iphone worse than a nas? Or is it the same?

[@mention:1566878603891419] And i mean streaming of a locally stored identical file

nestor burma posted:

@NigelB, look i'm a rational person. I try to understand your opinion. Are you saying that the sound quality streaming wirelessly to the nds is different if the file is stored on a nas or an iphone in the same room? If yes then i will have learned something.

 

FOOT TAPPER has aid it all. Yes, as well as getting a NAS and ripping your CDs you will also need to link up your NAS and NDS to your router (preferably via a switch) with ethernet cable. Wireless streaming introduces another compromise to sound quality and potentially makes the whole system flakey with drop outs spoiling things. Ethernet give optimal SQ and robustness.

These things are tricky to describe and explain in detail on the forum although the reality is reasonably straightforward. If you are new to streaming and are contemplating doing it properly with a server (NAS), decent streamer (NDS) all ethernet wired, I would strongly advise to seek the advice of a Naim dealer assuming there is one in Paris.

Good luck.

Visit a Naim dealer in Paris. All will be explained (presumably) in French.

Here; you might just get personal bias, paranoia and confusion. It's what we do best - myself included.

Good luck. 

John. 

Clive B posted:

engjoo posted:

I would not buy an NDS/NDX today due to the dated streaming capabilities and interface. 

But if you like the 'Naim' sound, then there's no better option today. And as said above, they are becoming available on the secondhand market now which would make them more accessible to more potential users.

No doubt it is the best sounding streamer from Naim today but I still would not advise buying it becuase there are just many new things I enjoy doing on the atom that I don't with those on older platform.

nestor burma posted:

Actually i meant using the iphone as nas.

NDS is a great source, that is about the end of its life cycle... most probably we will get one with color screen and room capable very soon.. but a second hand one with a nas, decent cabling and a power supply will be totally different ball game than streaming from a phone...

Your current setup is a dream come true so if you want anything close to your CD set up you need a good streaming setup as well otherwise it will be a very different sound vs CD555...

you got a boeing jet plane of a source at the moment and your are talking about a "donkey"  for  streaming source solution... You will not enjoy the donkey while you can travel with your private boeing jet...

A NAS / decent cabling / NDS+PS will come to close to what you have with streaming ease of use and ability to use Tidal/Spootify etc... 

Life cycles are all in the mind unless it’s mine of course. Colour screen had no relevance. I don’t use the green one on the NDS - everything is via the app. I had one on the HDX but didn’t use that either. I listen mostly to stuff stored on the Core and don’t stream beyond BBCR3 as my download speeds are rubbish. So probably more than I’ll ever need. I purchased an OPPO 205 a couple of weeks ago said to be the bees knees for streaming. If I get sufficiently bored I may try a dem vs the NDS but life’s probably too short but it’s great with UHD for sure!

In addition to any sound quality issues, an iPhone just isn't really the right tool for the job of storing and serving music, even though it may be capable of it if you can find a UPnP server that will run on it. A proper NAS is always on, hidden away in a convenient corner of your house, attached to your network. Using it to store music, (and possibly other files) is the sort of thing it's designed for, it can be accessed, backed up, and saved to, as your music collection grows. You still get to use your phone to control music playback, but why is it so important to you to use it for storage?  

Can you wait 3 years for an NDS replacement? If yes I suggest you do it, the 555 should keep you entertained and if you’re present streaming solution is running it close I suggest you read this thread:

https://forums.naimaudio.com/topic/naim-torque

I don’t know your power conditioner and it may not be sucking the life out of the system but there are many that do, worth trying without to remind yourself why you’re using it.

You do have a functioning earth connection where you plug the system in don’t you? I didn’t in Montpellier when I checked.

Ok.

1. Today with Qobuz or Tidal we have unlimited access to higher resolution files than what is stored on CDs
2. Imagine that streaming becomes equal to locally ripped/stored CDs
3. Then what is the point for me to rip/store locally if I can listen to all (or almost all) the music I have for free (since I already have the subscription) from Qobuz/Tidal?

The iphone storage idea comes in because of the fact that locally stored files streaming is better than remote streaming from qobuz going into the nds (although not good in absolute I hear from the forum). And in Qobuz or Tidal you can store locally what you hear through remote streaming. The issue is that you can access those locally stored files only through you iphone and you cannot move them; but you can stream them to the nds (at least I do this with the google audio chromecast now). So instead of sending to the nds the remote Qobuz stream as usual, you can with this functionality send a local file to the nds. I use the iphone like a "flash memory" and after a while I erase the files to get space for new qobuz downloads

[@mention:1566878603909035], my adept response is not a conditioner just redistributes the wall power into 8 outlets so should be fine. For the "functioning" earth I will have to check!

If you plan to stay with Naim in general, and want to control your NAC and CD555 using your iPhone, a Naim ND player is the best way I know to do that easily.  Using your phone as a source into the NDS is probably possible, I have not tried that; I have played my iPhone into the Naim DAC via USB and found it works well.  But the alternatives seem more compelling, to me, and it is cumbersome managing lossless files (AIFF in my case) on a phone with limited capacity. 

I started with a Mac running MinimServer and graduated to a NAS running MinimServer.  I find Spotify meets my needs for portability, and I can fill in with iTunes to sync some of my music to my phone if I want to. 

I did experiment once with throwing Spotify from my iPhone via Wi-Fi into an AirPort Express into the Naim DAC, vs remote-controlling Spotify on the NDX -- the latter was obviously superior-sounding.

I hope this helps.

Best of luck with your decision.

Nick 

nestor burma posted:

Ok.

1. Today with Qobuz or Tidal we have unlimited access to higher resolution files than what is stored on CDs
2. Imagine that streaming becomes equal to locally ripped/stored CDs
3. Then what is the point for me to rip/store locally if I can listen to all (or almost all) the music I have for free (since I already have the subscription) from Qobuz/Tidal?

The iphone storage idea comes in because of the fact that locally stored files streaming is better than remote streaming from qobuz going into the nds (although not good in absolute I hear from the forum). And in Qobuz or Tidal you can store locally what you hear through remote streaming. The issue is that you can access those locally stored files only through you iphone and you cannot move them; but you can stream them to the nds (at least I do this with the google audio chromecast now). So instead of sending to the nds the remote Qobuz stream as usual, you can with this functionality send a local file to the nds. I use the iphone like a "flash memory" and after a while I erase the files to get space for new qobuz downloads

NDS is perfectly fine for Tidal.... Streaming from Tidal vs NAS is different SQ...

and you can always look at the other brands for a NDS level streamer with even Qubuz integration from Aurender etc..

A have a 2TB of music in my NAS and my phone is only 128GB full of apps and photos, how many albums in hidden can you put on a phone?  all point of the streaming is the convenience of all your music collection at one touch... just like a personal Tidal.

I got your point as a local storage but i don't know if Tidal uses downloaded files for streaming if you are using program in a online mode, download functionality is designed for offline use only and with IOS/Android operating systems but anyway your setup deserves  a decent streamer with wired configuration rather using it like a bluetooth speaker... Chromecast has Qubuz integration maybe your are streaming the music rather than using your phone as a flash drive, just guessing here...

The analogue filter section on the NDS is still world class IMO. There are almost certainly improvements possible in the DSP/DAC section, but I doubt these are material, The streamer bit is looking a little long in the tooth, but it still does the job.

As an existing NDS owner, a dealer replaceable streaming engine with all the new platform features would be nice to have, but I’m hardly suffering.

[@mention:3678285645782720], if the 2 TB of music files that you have come from your ripped CDs and that they are 95% on Tidal...then if streaming would be perfect you could use Tidal as your NAS...and just store locally the 5% that are not in the Tidal catalogue. 

As I have not yet ripped one CD this saves me the time and the need to buy/setup a NAS. And besides, I would be ripping CDs but through Tidal I have access to high rez versions of the music I own with no extra expense thanks to my subscription.

Regarding the stoage capability of the iphone that is not an issue as a listening session is usually limited to 1,2 or 3 CDs maximum, so I download listen and when memory is full I erase.

Notwithstanding that digital technologies do move on fast just because a newer product has been brought to market by another manufacturer doesn’t render the existing product redundant.   I would suggest that the NDS is akin to the CDS3 beforehand - still a superb music maker.  

Regards,

Lindsay