Buying an NDS today ?

[@mention:5227470747496877], Yes I also at one point used an airport express to stream to the Nac 552 and it was really so so. I am doing this now with the Google audio chromecast and I believe this is much better. Although not of the level of my CDP of course, but pleasant. It is nice to access all new music through my iphone or Ipad Qobuz, streamed to my main system, without ANY complication or extra expense...but being a perfectionist, every time I listen I wonder about the NDS!

engjoo posted:

Clive B posted:

engjoo posted:

I would not buy an NDS/NDX today due to the dated streaming capabilities and interface. 

But if you like the 'Naim' sound, then there's no better option today. And as said above, they are becoming available on the secondhand market now which would make them more accessible to more potential users.

No doubt it is the best sounding streamer from Naim today but I still would not advise buying it becuase there are just many new things I enjoy doing on the atom that I don't with those on older platform.

What things are you enjoying on the Atom that the NDS won't give you? I'm not trying to start an argument, I'm just interested to know as my NDS does all I want it to do which is play music very well.

Nestor,

You clearly appreciate Qobuz or Tidal. I get that, I do too.

I use Tidal (the Hifi version) a lot to seek out new music, listening to it on the office mac 'n dac system. It's brilliant for this.  But if I like an album on Tidal, I always end up buying and ripping the CD as the sound quality is far better, at least to these cloth ears. Details of my Naim systems are on my profile, in case this matters to you.

With a CD player as good as yours, we are probably at a similar stage  of wondering if/how to switch from a CD player to a streamer of similar or "better" musical ability.

My shortlist is Naim NDS/555PS (I ripped the CDs a few years ago for the office system), Linn KDS3(?), a Melco or Aurender renderer (if that's the right term!) + a Chord DAVE  dac, or the Swiss Emerging Technology NADAC streamer.

I started a thread about it on the Streaming Forum. It would be most interesting to learn about how you get on.

Best regards, FT

nestor burma posted:

[@mention:3678285645782720], if the 2 TB of music files that you have come from your ripped CDs and that they are 95% on Tidal...then if streaming would be perfect you could use Tidal as your NAS...and just store locally the 5% that are not in the Tidal catalogue. 

As I have not yet ripped one CD this saves me the time and the need to buy/setup a NAS. And besides, I would be ripping CDs but through Tidal I have access to high rez versions of the music I own with no extra expense thanks to my subscription.

Regarding the stoage capability of the iphone that is not an issue as a listening session is usually limited to 1,2 or 3 CDs maximum, so I download listen and when memory is full I erase.

lets say they are 75% on Tidal and hires downloads and as Cd on my shelf and as LP on shelf below and 25th anniversary and 50th and new remix and box set etc... i am a junkie of all formats. 

Tidal is 16/44 CD quality only but anyway even for using just Tidal or qobuz there might be better sounding alternatives than choromecast that will be a adequate company for a very expensive Pre/power, a decent source.

and i can not believe that writing all of these to a owner of CD555 with double 555.... a source of 25k£ or something 

if you compare Chorecast vs your cd setup and you are happy with the chorecast why all uber expensive blackboxes?

I can exchange my nice looking and streaming 272 with 552 so it will solve all your problems  

A mythical source which I can't buy, because it doesn't exist, certainly won't sound better than my NDS. I feel highly confident in stating that.

Chromecast has been for me the door to a dream: access to all the music of the world for free on my main system.  In absolute this is fantastic, a great experience. There is no comparison to be made with listening to the music I have already on my main system. Of course now that I have experienced this I will buy a decent streamer, the only question is when...

Emre posted:

Tidal is 16/44 CD quality only but anyway even for using just Tidal or qobuz there might be better sounding alternatives than choromecast that will be a adequate company for a very expensive Pre/power, a decent source.

 

On Tidal now you also have the access to MQA hi-res Masters as part of your hi-fi subscription, the selection is not huge but it is growing.  Using a Mac Mini and Audirvana+  I can unpack MQA files to 24/96.  If I was to add a MQA qualified DAC then I would have access to 24/192 as I understand.  

I can not reliably discern between locally sourced (16/44 ALAC's on Mac Mini) or streamed files provided they are the same release on my system but when there is a MQA version available I generally refer that presentation.  

Regards

Simon

I own an NDS.

I only use the front screen for settings (for eg disable digital output), and when I do, it does its job very well.

I can use it as a streamer only, or dac only, or both. Currently I use it as a streamer only to feed a PS Audio Directstream DAC with non-Naim amps. Sounds superb (light years better than iphone feeding the usb input of the Directstream).

I use spotify connect on the NDS a lot.

There is nothing more I need or want from my streamer. A better screen? Nah. I read that the NDS filter uses only 5 lines of assembly level code to minimise calculations and thus noise. The simpler the better as almost everything can be done on the app. The new dCS network bridge doesn’t even have a screen, and nobody is complaining.

Stereophile said the Schiit Yggdrasil dac uses obsolete dac chips. Schiit responded by saying that its dac is ‘proudly obsolete’, just as tubes are obsolete. A newer model may have more features, bluetooth for example, but sound quality wise? Not very sure. Read the NDS white paper. Not much more can be done to improve SQ.

NDS is one of the few pieces of Naim history I own that I will never sell. It is that good.

the new uniti range will be the major back bone of new naim for years ,it will be very profitable for them,. really cant see the point of paying mega money for anything that is based on a streaming.nas platforms..It is on the cards that streaming services will be the big player. a new stripped down  uniti with line outputs//digital out for x old naimers with preamps must be on the drawing board....also it seems likely that coupled with this   Wireless multiroom range of speakers will be the way forward.  wireless is the way forward for all audio.

audio1946 posted:

. . .   Wireless multiroom range of speakers will be the way forward.  wireless is the way forward for all audio.

It will succeed, when it sounds as good as analog, and plays analog sources; or when people stop caring about sound quality, which would eliminate the need for 500 and Statement pieces, and turntables. 

One lives in hope.

Nick

Back on topic:

I did try an NDS briefly, as an alternative to my NDX-FM into nDAC/555.  I confess it was not a long trial; but, I did not think the difference, if I heard one, was enough to give up FM, even for the benefit of trading the nDAC in and reducing the box count.

If FM were not a benefit I enjoyed, I would have traded the NDX and DAC, if only to recover a Fraim level at~$1000 (unless a second 555 arrived!)

Nick

NickSeattle posted:

audio1946 posted:

. . .   Wireless multiroom range of speakers will be the way forward.  wireless is the way forward for all audio.

It will succeed, when it sounds as good as analog, and plays analog sources; or when people stop caring about sound quality, which would eliminate the need for 500 and Statement pieces, and turntables. 

One lives in hope.

Nick

absolutely  ,but for most it has past. the younger one don't seem to have interest in quality audio.   I started with 78rpm  then 45s and lps from 1958 till today   and it draw as not weakened.   but I did hear a wireless speaker and it did sound good ish.

Just found this on the forum, which maybe makes the point clearly. Ultimately it is about using the nds only as dac, using the streaming capability of a google audio chromecast's toslink out. Right now I just use the RCA out into my NAC.

DAVIDSMEMBER

10/16/161:34 PM

I love Qobuz and have a mu-so. Until the last few days I've been mostly using Audirvana+ on an iMac and streaming to mu-so with AirPlay. However reading about the new Unitis reminded me that the Qobuz IOS app supports ChromeCast Audio so I bought one (£30) and "Eureka":

• Plugged the ChromeCast into the mu-so with the supplied yellow 3.5mm analogue lead
• Installed Google Cast app on my iPad Mini and set up ChromeCast (you hear a reassuring beeps)
• Started the Qobuz IOS app and started playing an album on the iPad. A new Google Cast icon appears
• Tap the icon, choose your Chromecast and the music moves to the mu-so

I then remembered that during beta testing, I'd been particularly impressed by the sound quality of the mu-so digital (toslink) input. Luckily I had a spare toslink cable and mini toslink adaptor. Replaced the yellow analogue cable with this. Now the ChromeCast is streaming digitally and using the mu-so DAC rather than the ChromeCast DAC. This seems to me to be the perfect solution:

• "Casting" moves the stream from the iPad to the ChromeCast. I confirmed this by powering off the iPad. The ChromeCast continues playing the current album to the end. When you restart the iPad and open the Qobuz app, it resyncs to the current track playing. Thus we have a digital connection from Qobuz to the mu-so
• This means you can also stream your purchased HD albums. I'm currently listening to one at 24 bits/96 kHz and it sounds magnificent (you can see the resolution in the Qobuz app). Before, the only way I could do this was either to download the album to the iMac and stream from MinimServer via uPnP to the mu-so (on Ethernet), or plug the iPad directly into the mu-so USB.
• The booklets are to hand on the iPad - easier than reading a CD insert or the back of a 33rpm album!
• Incidentally this also works for the Tidal app, though only for FLAC 16-bits/44.1 kHz and no booklets
• It also works for BBC iPlayer Radio, both for live streams but more importantly for everything in the schedule (e.g. last Friday's Radio 3 in Concert) where you can use the scroll circle to move to any part of the programme. Again, this is "cast", meaning that you can turn the iPad off if you want to, or make a call on your iPhone. The ChromeCast is streaming directly from the BBC.

I now understand why Naim is planning to include Google Cast in the new Unitis. Meanwhile for an outlay of less than £35 we can have most of the benefits on any system with a digital input.

david

 

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While not suggesting this as a long term solution it is possible to connect your iPhone by USB cable directly to the NDS. The NDS is able to access the hard drive directly and play from it in a similar way to a USB drive. Provided the files you store on your phone are CD quality then it should sound little different from a NAS drive. Obviously a NAS drive will hold much more music but it allows you to try the NDS with your own music.

Regards, Mike

I currently have an NDS and it is great ...... I am just in the process of connecting Roon via a RB3/Digi+  this will make a fantastic player even more fab....

Regarding old Naim gear ..... my friend still has an old top end olive cd player......that still sounds fantastic .... and its a bit of a dinosaur ...... I think as we all know .... its all down to the implementation. I have no doubt that Naim will make a replacement for the NDS ...... this will have all the app functionality and even better signal processing ..... probably at statement level prices.... it wont make the NDS a bad player.......... evolution not revolution 

If they improve it I'll be interested.

If I wanted one of the best streaming sources money can buy today, I'd be auditioning the NDS, not waiting for the next one.

nestor burma posted:

Agreed, the purpose of this post is exactly this. I'm fishing to assess whether there is some information put there that I do not know...like a nds 2 launch rumor, or about nds obsolesence vs competition in SQ or functionalities or else. So far the outcome is that the NDS SQ is still at the top...so a purchase of a used one still makes sense, especially since I do not need to purchase PS as I imagine I can switch them from the cdp on the fly...

anyone who knows wont speak

anyone who speaks doesnt know

What Jon said.

You name it, there's a rumour. about it. I mean, it stands to reason. How long has the Nova been out for? Well, it's obvious that they're already working on the next one, isn't it?

Paul Stephenson said in an interview published in one of the comics last year that a Statement level streamer is in R&D. Is that a rumour, a fact, or just a confirmation that the Naim R&D facility are doing their jobs?

I was amused by the HiFI News review of the Nova. There was a sidebar interview with Trevor Wilson which finished:

"But he won't be drawn on where the 'Platform of the Future' goes from here, beyond saying that 'As we call it a platform, that must give some encouragement to our customers who are expecting other products in due course'."

The little tease

jon honeyball posted:

anyone who knows wont speak

anyone who speaks doesnt know

Finland.

Finally: google audio chromecast, with high speed broadband (10-15 MB/s in listening room), checking "full dynamic range", and also very importantly, "restart" speaker (30 seconds) before every listening session (because somehow it deteriorates/disconnects if not used) makes streaming Qobuz with my iphone 6s through a mini jack to RCA good quality cable, incredibly satisfying . Perfect waiting solution before a naim next step. Do not believe me; just listen. Thanks to everyone.

nestor burma posted:

Finally: google audio chromecast, with high speed broadband (10-15 MB/s in listening room), checking "full dynamic range", and also very importantly, "restart" speaker (30 seconds) before every listening session (because somehow it deteriorates/disconnects if not used) makes streaming Qobuz with my iphone 6s through a mini jack to RCA good quality cable, incredibly satisfying . Perfect waiting solution before a naim next step. Do not believe me; just listen. Thanks to everyone.

i hope you find not this solution so good sounding as your cd555.  If for you it is the same level of sound quality,  maybe you can go to see an ENT specialist.... ( there are many in Paris)

French Rooster posted:

i hope you find not this solution so good sounding as your cd555.  If for you it is the same level of sound quality,  maybe you can go to see an ENT specialist.... ( there are many in Paris)

Thats nice....

some comments interesting...

It's all about musicality and sound quality in the end.

And the NDS got both, it is the best streamer that Naim make, that can easily hold it's ground against the considerably more expensive digital sources out there (for example, DCS)

In a Naim context, it is the source to aspire to.

People think the latest DSP/DAC/Moore's law will cure anything and everything, well it's all down to implementation, and Naim are the masters/experts on this.

Naim are one of the few companies that really understand music... they really understand the interaction between electronics, electrics, mechanical energy and how all this impacts on how much one will enjoy music replay at home.