Cables, cables and cables...

Joppe 

any full loom set of fancy interconnection cables will cost you the same sort of money as upgrading your 252 to a 552.

It makes sense to spend your money on a nice pre-owned 552 first.

The only caveat to the above may depend upon how your urika is presently connected to your 252, if you are using RCA-RCA Linn silvers with a mayware DIN adaptor (?) then it would be a good idea to upgrade this asap to an RCA-DIN Sarum T, or Music cable depending upon your budget and aspirations as to getting a 552 which IMO should be in preference to any other expensive i/c or speaker cables

Debs

The full loom is, as you would expect, lovely. But it is also costs a lot.  Most of us have built towards it gradually.  I started with the speaker cables then quickly added the interconnect (nDAC to then 282). The XLR came quite a bit later, and I did it twice because my first XLR was a single to my then 250.2 and I had to part exchange it for a twin XLR when I upgraded my 250.2 to a 300DR. It was worth it, though.

If I could only have one piece of the full loom I think it would be a choice between the interconnect and speaker cable, and I'd probably go for the speaker cable as I already had a Hi-line. Since you've got two good sources you might get most benefit from the speaker cable.   Maybe your dealer could let you try some run-in SL speaker cables and an interconnect at home for a few days so you can decide which is best for you.

Hi Debs,

I used to have Linn silver RCA-RCA from my Urika. Then tried a simple rca-din adaptor and realised it brought something to the sound that just the silvers did not. So I used that until I realised that I all ready had an RCA-DIN version of the standard Naim Interconnect. I decided to try that out, that is what I use today. It is very fine but switching from the equvivalent din version on my cds3 to a hiline make me wonder how a fancy cable would sound on my LP12...  

Hmm, 552 is unfortunatly extremely rare in Sweden and not easy to audition and extremely rare s/h. If I put SL or Sarum speaker cables into the mix I agree even a new 552 would probably be the way to go. But at the same time, is it really that good that I would forget about fancy cables...? (not sure I want to know the answer to that )

Pretty much agree with Debs here...the 552 is a game changer and your Magico's will love it . That said, the biggest difference I have heard in the cable switching game was the IC from Urika- vinyl is my only source. Sarum T or Music will give you a better insight of what your Urika is capable of . The Linn Silvers strangle it imo...

ATB,

Mark

I have tried all three options at home and went with the tried and true source first, doing the IC from source to pre first, closely followed by the 252-250 (in my case). Speaker cable will follow one  day .. Each upgrade was a significant and well worthwhile investment.

I don't agree with the "552 first advice" It's a very nice preamp, but you will end up buying hi-end cables anyway for that.

So start with the cables first.

The source to preamp cable can really give improvements, since even the 552 is at the mercy of that cable.

I am not sure I would buy second hand from another country, so the second hand market in Scandinavia is a problem here. I have not seen anything beyond 252 up for second hand sale and that is also rare,  and my ps 555 in the last 10 years.

Claus

Cable threads are rather predictable, aren't they? The "icing of the cake" camp vs. the cable evangelists (along the lines of "it's like a new black box"...). To be continued... 

My opinion is that, if you have any aspirations to upgrade the 252 and if funds are available, then a 552 is the move to make.

Cables are much less straight forward and I can only assume that a given cable may have a different impact on a different system in a different listening environment.  The feedback on this forum is extremely varied in this regard.  The other aspect is that cables can be problematic to sell on without losing a very considerable proportion of the purchase cost - hence you need to be very sure that the cables are right for you before committing to them.

The biggest difference I noticed in my system was when I replaced the standard cable between cds3 and preamp with a hi-line.  I don't recall which naim pre-amp I had at the time but I do remember being astonished at the improved clarity of sound.  I have since acquired a chord sarum t cable to replace the hi-line. The cable is still quite new and there may be burn in but the sound characteristics are quite different to hi-line.  Cymbols etc have not got any brighter but I think there is a significant step up in the coherence of the music, the way it all hangs together better.  Quite subjective and I am intrigued by the difference!  There is such a significant amount of money in these new cables that I would want to enjoy the benefit of a lengthy audition before being able to justify them.  No such issue with the 552.  If purchased used, depreciation will be negligible also which is a considerable bonus.  And of course, you can always play about with cables at your leisure in the coming months or years.

Peter

Hi ... right I think the hi line matches the 252 spot on ........ the slightly polite nature of the 252 is complemented by the slightly exuberant hi line.  You risk unbalancing your system (speaker dependant of course) .... by changing the interconnect with the current setup.  Conversely if you go to a 552 the hi line I think will make your system maybe a little too hot in the upper reaches.... So in your position .... I think I would invest in SL speaker cable .... as your 300dr will love that...   One person advised the 552 and yes it is utterly brilliant....... but it is allot more powerful and unrestricted at the top end - kinda in a classic old school Naim way ...... in terms of presentation - the detail timing and clout are great. So changing to the 552 could be a double whammy....interconnect and pre-amp (ouch) which is what happened to me ........ I then tried a SL interconnect and omg - no looking back....

I’ve recorded my findings elsewhere. But to conclude I’m not at all convinced by full loom.  

As Northpole has said frankly it’s a bit of a lottery and at least until the mid-point (282/250) I would concentrate on upgrading black boxes but once you’ve reached your optimum level start thinking about how changing wires might really conclude things. 

With regard to brands in my experience it’s best sticking with Naim inter-connects between the electronics. But for speaker cable I think this is more speaker dependent.  But all subjective and personal preference.  

Regards,

Lindsay 

Just to add further confusion, I have NDS/252/250DR and have been totally convinced by SL full loom in my system, in my room, listening with my ears after step by step SL additions (IC, then speaker cables and finally DIN/XLR) and a lengthy home demo at each step. I suspect the SL quandary is very much influenced by room, speaker and personal preference (and the depth of one's pockets).

I wouldn't quibble with those who advise seeking out a second-hand 552. I liked the 552 sufficiently to buy a new one.  However, I really don't these as two alternative choices because if Joppe did get a 552 it would only be a matter of time before the SL cable 'itch' returned. And its worth remembering that he noted cash was tight so he was looking at one SL cable at a time and I don't think a second-hand 552 falls within range of the cost of one SL cable.     

Thanks for all the feedback guys! To be honest I am not totally happy with having fallen back into the cable swamp. One of the things I really liked getting my first Naim gear in 2006 was the fact that they were designed as a system and all the cable hassle was suppsed to be history! I still remember my reluctance getting the hiline and I resisted for a long time. But when I upgraded to cds3 and 252 I gave in and bought one not being able to put it off as being just HIFI anymore.

I try too summarize the feedback so far:

• Interconnects are probably the best end to start, alternative is speaker cables.
• Both Chord and SL has it’s endorsers.
• Nobody suggest starting with din-xlr even if that would serve two sources in my case.
• Urika has a lot of hidden potential using linn silvers (and probably also with std naim rca-din in my case). Many use Chord Sarum and Music with great results. What about Signature, anyone with experience?
• And last but not least, 42 is not the universal answer 552 is!

Signature TA yes tried the inter-connect between my CDS3 and 282 but reverted to a hi-line - more organic is the only way to describe.  See my separate thread I was going to try Sig speaker cable but have concluded that I wouldn’t that level of investment as it would take me some way towards a Supercap or such like. 

I fully understand your position, I have very fond memories of uppgrading from hicap to sc on my 282. I really liked that one! Not easy to compare (it was 10 years ago) but to these ears that was in a way more significant than my recent DR upgrades in how it increased my enjoyment of my music collection. Naim really do some cool stuff!

Is anybody using Naim SL interconnects and Chord speaker cables?Also most SL interconnect owners seam also use SL speaker cable or att least plan to get there. However, many seam to enjoy Chords higher end interconnects with Naca5...

The closest I got to this prior to recent changes were my hi-lines:  din-din from cds3 to 252 (later 552); and rca-din from groove+ phono to pre-amp.  During this period I was using chord signature speaker cables which replaced NACA5 cables.  I had found the NACA5 a bit harsh in my room with the nbl speakers.  I have very recently replaced the hi-line din-din with a chord sarum t; and I acquired a set of chord sarum speaker cables from a fellow forum member.  What I didn't try was to compare the hi-line against the sarum t with either cable set in place ie the speaker cables and interconnect were swapped over at the same time, which is not very helpful to the OP's latest question!  I'm afraid I'm pretty terrible at analysing the differences however, in my opinion the overall sound presentation seems to cover a wider spectrum with perhaps a fuller sound which I am finding most engaging and coherent (unlike my descriptions!).

Kinda goes back to my earlier contribution in this thread - you really do have to hear these cables for yourself to form a judgment.  Happy to let you hear mine if you are passing through London any time soon.  The hi-line and signature cables are still here.  Unfortunately I'm not sure how much that would help as the proper place to hear them is in your own listening room at home.

Peter

Joppe posted:

Is anybody using Naim SL interconnects and Chord speaker cables?Also most SL interconnect owners seam also use SL speaker cable or att least plan to get there. However, many seam to enjoy Chords higher end interconnects with Naca5...

Yes. SL DIN to XLR with Chord Epic Reference Twin. I originally intended to buy SL speaker cable, until I tested both. For me the Chord was superior by a significant margin. The money saved was incidental, I prefer the Chord signature (same occurred when I compared Chord Epic Twin to NACA5 when buying my first Naim kit).

My 552 refuses not to lift all boats, indifferent cabling be darned.  

This is especially evident in remote zones, where 552 benefits shine obviously through Naim Uniti Qute and Uniti Lite end points, and ancient B&O systems.  All these connections are through many yards of in-wall-rated RG6 via a rather good Denon AV Pre functioning as a distribution hub.  

I would not drone on about this (as I do) if it were not so completely amazing.

Nick

A short update, I spent the last weak with the Epic Reference SC and LP12 using rca-din “lavender” and cds3 with hiline and lavender din-din taking turns. I can conclude that in my system the hiline and Epic Ref don’t have the best synergy, at least not on all records. And the synergy with “lavender” is not bad on both vinyl and cd. But it is a bit rough around the edges and makes me think about upgrades rather than relax and think about the music (if you can relate to that). Tonight I reinstalled my naca5 and initially I thought it was abit dull, and what happened with the fantastic resolution? But now after an hour or two it feels more relaxed and balanced... hmm (maybe not all that shine is gold)

So far I have not been able to arrange an interconnect demo, but hope to have some positive news from my dealer soon. 

Peter, thanks for your invitation. I might take you up on that one day  And you description of the sarum T sound very much as what I am looking for!

The problem I have with this kind of thread is it always comes down to either Chord or Naim, be it the standard cables, which are excellent, or the SL cables. There are other choices available that can equal or exceed some of those choices.

Some other cables that can work extremely well with Naim are Atlas, Tellurium, Vovox and Vertere to name just a few. There are others too! If you've got the time and are not in a hurry, try to listen to some other cables. It may be worth it!

Moderated Post: Badlands, I have had to remove the name of someone who has requested that neither they nor their products are mentioned or discussed on here.

Thanks Badlands, you actually initiated me seeking out if there are any Vertere dealers in Sweden. I actually found a store that state they carry Vertere din cables, Pulse B and R. Anyone who has used these with good results? How do they sound compared to a hiline?

I know that there are Telurium dealers, but not sure if they have any din cables on demo. 

Chord and Naim share distribution in Sweden, so generally convenient first audition candidates. 

Joppe posted:

Hi Debs,

I used to have Linn silver RCA-RCA from my Urika. Then tried a simple rca-din adaptor and realised it brought something to the sound that just the silvers did not. So I used that until I realised that I all ready had an RCA-DIN version of the standard Naim Interconnect. I decided to try that out, that is what I use today. It is very fine but switching from the equvivalent din version on my cds3 to a hiline make me wonder how a fancy cable would sound on my LP12...  

Hmm, 552 is unfortunatly extremely rare in Sweden and not easy to audition and extremely rare s/h. If I put SL or Sarum speaker cables into the mix I agree even a new 552 would probably be the way to go. But at the same time, is it really that good that I would forget about fancy cables...? (not sure I want to know the answer to that )

 

Yes, unfortunately it´s very difficult to hear a NAC552 in Sweden. Only one store in Sweden carry NAC552 (to my knowledge) but that store doesn’t have NAC252 so it’s hard to compare unless you bring your own preamp.

I have a similar system to yours, Joppe, and would also like to hear a NAC552, preferably in my own system.

Maybe I need to plan a vacation to London and visit a well-equipped dealer to at least be able to hear NAC252 vs NAC552 at a dealer?

I’m also thinking about if my long time plan should be a NAC552 (after saving up for a few years) or if I should change a cable per year.

After hearing a Chord Music vs SuperLumina DIN-DIN cable in a similar system to mine I must say that I was very surprised of the difference in performance. The Chord Music cable was just so much better…

I would like to do the demo NAC552 + my present cables vs NAC252 + Chord cables for the same amount of money as the cost for upgrading NAC252 ==> NAC552.

After such a demo I could have a longtime plan. Unfortunately no dealer in Sweden have such possibilities… 

/Marcus

Marcus,

Could you get a flight to Leicester?  Peter at Cymbiosis is your guy 

Regards,

Lindsay