Cables, cables and cables...

I'd agree with Lindsay or, if limited to London, Graham's Hi-Fi would be a very likely candidate to have boxes and cables aplenty.

Peter

If you have whole Naim setup then please try Chord Sarum or above models for interconnects. Please carefully try the speaker cables with your speaker. I think Dynaudio will match well with the Chord Sarum and above. For Magico you can try Chord (not confident) but I think you can also try Naim Lumina or Cardas (Clear and above). Naim cables has more laid back character, so should suitable for Magico.

Mix and match the cables are the last step in our setup, and require carefully listening, as it may make lots of difference from heaven to hell or another way. Good luck.

OK, I'm going to throw in a curved ball...  How are you with a soldering iron?  If you can use one, make up interconnect cables as follows

DIN 5 180º  /  Mogami W2549 cable  /  DIN 5 180º    (CDS3 to 252)
2 x Phono  /  Mogami W3160 cable  /  DIN 5 180º     (Ulrika to 252)
2off   DIN 4 240º  /  Mogami W2549 or W2497 cable *  /  XLR 3   (252 to 300)

For the DIN 5 180º I recommend Prehkeytec 71430-050 or Rean NYS322

For the DIN 4 240º I recommend Prehkeytec 71430-040

For the Phono plugs I recommend either gold plated MS Audio Star Line plugs or WBT plugs (the current version of the Eichmann bullets (ETI) have silver contact surfaces and are not recommended due to the build up of a sulphide layer and the resultant requirement for regular cleaning, and potential incompatibility with the gold contacts on the Ulrika).

For the XLR the standard Neutrik plugs are fine (e.g. NC3MXX)

This will cost less than $800kr (SEK), then you can put the money saved toward the 552!

* I currently use W2549 cable but I'm about to make up cables using W2497 cable (and also Klotz MC5000) and will post my results on this forum.

Huge, interesting stuff! Checked the price of w2549 seams to be roughly 30kr/m (or 2,5£/m). Also realised that I seen it used somewhere, it turns out that my (never used) Linn tonearm cable uses this cable!

How would you rate it compared to e.g. a Hiline?

W3160, why this cable? Look similar to w2549? I assume I need double runs for 2 rca to din, correct? Would I then connect one lead as signal the other as earth and connect the screen to earth at the signal end only? Sorry for all the detail questions, but got a bit curious. 

Backing up what HUge is suggesting at Audio Show East PMC were using £2 per metre cable made up for them from a cable company in boreham wood. It sounded great. The guy I spoke to reinforced my view that, yes, there are better cables, but not worth thousands in terms if their actual bill of materials that companies work to.

northpole posted:

I'd agree with Lindsay or, if limited to London, Graham's Hi-Fi would be a very likely candidate to have boxes and cables aplenty.

Peter

Hi Lindsay and Peter!

Thank you for your suggestions!

Yes, I could fly to Birmingham (I think that’s the nearest airport from Leicester).

Wait, I just checked Cymbiosis homepage and found this information:

The nearest airports to us are East Midlands Airport and Birmingham Airport, both fly internationally and are under one hours drive. If you wish to fly to either airport a Cymbiosis member of staff will arrange to meet you on arrival and transport you by car to Cymbiosis at Rearsby

That is really impressive customer service!!!

The reason I mentioned London was because I thought it would be easier to convince my better half to spend a weekend in London compared to Leicester (no offence intended).

/Marcus

Marcus, yes auditioning 500 series amps (and source when it was availble) is almost impossible here.  Not that I have asked my dealer if he could arange a 552 demo. But juding from the difficulty of arranging a din-xlr demo for my 300 (of any cable) I assume it would not be very easy to arrange.

I see you have SL full loom, were you able too find a demo din-xlr cable, or did you make your purchase based on faith (and din  experience)?

It looks like I at least will be able to audition din-din versions of SL against Chord Signature TA, Sarum T and Music in the upcoming weeks. Not a bad start...

Joppe posted:

Huge, interesting stuff! Checked the price of w2549 seams to be roughly 30kr/m (or 2,5£/m). Also realised that I seen it used somewhere, it turns out that my (never used) Linn tonearm cable uses this cable!

How would you rate it compared to e.g. a Hiline?

W3160, why this cable? Look similar to w2549? I assume I need double runs for 2 rca to din, correct? Would I then connect one lead as signal the other as earth and connect the screen to earth at the signal end only? Sorry for all the detail questions, but got a bit curious. 

 

Hi Joppe, I'll take this to the padded cell as that's the place for the limited DIY stuff that Richard does permit (i.e. NO modifications to Naim equipment or SNAICs or other power carrying connections)

I'll start a new thread there "Cables, Cables and Cables..." for the DIY info.

MarcusM posted:

northpole posted:

I'd agree with Lindsay or, if limited to London, Graham's Hi-Fi would be a very likely candidate to have boxes and cables aplenty.

Peter

Hi Lindsay and Peter!

Thank you for your suggestions!

Yes, I could fly to Birmingham (I think that’s the nearest airport from Leicester).

Wait, I just checked Cymbiosis homepage and found this information:

The nearest airports to us are East Midlands Airport and Birmingham Airport, both fly internationally and are under one hours drive. If you wish to fly to either airport a Cymbiosis member of staff will arrange to meet you on arrival and transport you by car to Cymbiosis at Rearsby

That is really impressive customer service!!!

The reason I mentioned London was because I thought it would be easier to convince my better half to spend a weekend in London compared to Leicester (no offence intended).

/Marcus

Well even if you had a weekend in London the train to Leicester is only 90 mins.  

The Strat (Fender) posted:

MarcusM posted:

northpole posted:

I'd agree with Lindsay or, if limited to London, Graham's Hi-Fi would be a very likely candidate to have boxes and cables aplenty.

Peter

Hi Lindsay and Peter!

Thank you for your suggestions!

Yes, I could fly to Birmingham (I think that’s the nearest airport from Leicester).

Wait, I just checked Cymbiosis homepage and found this information:

The nearest airports to us are East Midlands Airport and Birmingham Airport, both fly internationally and are under one hours drive. If you wish to fly to either airport a Cymbiosis member of staff will arrange to meet you on arrival and transport you by car to Cymbiosis at Rearsby

That is really impressive customer service!!!

The reason I mentioned London was because I thought it would be easier to convince my better half to spend a weekend in London compared to Leicester (no offence intended).

/Marcus

Well even if you had a weekend in London the train to Leicester is only 90 mins.  

Thanks, that’s good to know.

Maybe I should plan for a trip during the spring. I only visited England once and that was 17 years ago so it’s about time to visit again 

 Perhaps Leicester is a nice town to spend a few days in?

/Marcus

Joppe posted:

Marcus, yes auditioning 500 series amps (and source when it was availble) is almost impossible here.  Not that I have asked my dealer if he could arange a 552 demo. But juding from the difficulty of arranging a din-xlr demo for my 300 (of any cable) I assume it would not be very easy to arrange.

I see you have SL full loom, were you able too find a demo din-xlr cable, or did you make your purchase based on faith (and din  experience)?

It looks like I at least will be able to audition din-din versions of SL against Chord Signature TA, Sarum T and Music in the upcoming weeks. Not a bad start...

No, I was not able to demo any other SL cable except the DIN-DIN cable.

This was when the SL cables were new on the market. I think that I listened to the first SL DIN-DIN-cable in Sweden and no DIN-XLR or Speaker Cable were available for demo.

Why did I buy the full loom of SL without listening to them? Well, at that time I did not find any dealer/distributor to borrow Chord Cables from. The Naim distribution in Sweden was about to change so no dealer bought the SL cables. There was only the DIN-DIN SL that I could listen to.

With NDS-NAC252-NAP300 the upgrade possibilities I saw then was:

-        NAC552

-        SL-cables

-        Second 555PS on my NDS

Since NAC552 was not possible to demo I compared the other two options. Since I thought I got roughly 50% of the performance lift changing Hi-Line to SL DIN-DIN compared to adding the second 555PS I draw the conclusion that full loom of SL would be better than a second 555PS. Since I already had the Hi-Line and NACA5 it was also cheaper to go with the full loom of SL-cables.

Now I think it should be possible to demo the full loom of SL and also compare it to Sarum T (or maybe even Music). I have not checked what’s available right now but almost a year ago when I listened to Chord Music DIN-DIN (as an bonus during another demo) I was told that it soon would be possible to compare SL, Sarum and Music for more cables than just DIN-DIN.

If I was in the same position today I would definitely compare SL vs Sarum. Now when I already have the SL I don’t know if I dare making that comparison…

I also think that it’s not wise to listen to Chord Music if you’re not in a position to buy it. I was very impressed by the DIN-DIN Music-cable that I listened to…

Since it’s not possible to have SL cables in all positions I now have a mix of SL and Sarum SA (Ethernet, Snaic 5 and speaker links). Yes, I also have PowerLines as power cables so not only SL or SSA.

Since it’s also (to my understanding) chord cables in my Kudos speakers I’m a little tempted to try Sarum T instead of my SL-cables and instead of my powerlines.

Since cables is very expensive I would like to find out if it’s wiser to instead save money long-term for a NAC552 and try to forget about the cables…

Please report back what you think about SL, Chord Signature TA, Sarum T and Music. I’m looking forward to your thoughts on the different cables.

/Marcus 

Marcus - you have an awesome system. I'd enjoy the music.  As I see it your only real improvement is 552/500 - start saving

Huge posted:

OK, I'm going to throw in a curved ball...  How are you with a soldering iron?  If you can use one, make up interconnect cables as follows

DIN 5 180º  /  Mogami W2549 cable  /  DIN 5 180º    (CDS3 to 252)
2 x Phono  /  Mogami W3160 cable  /  DIN 5 180º     (Ulrika to 252)
2off   DIN 4 240º  /  Mogami W2549 or W2497 cable *  /  XLR 3   (252 to 300)

For the DIN 5 180º I recommend Prehkeytec 71430-050 or Rean NYS322

For the DIN 4 240º I recommend Prehkeytec 71430-040

For the Phono plugs I recommend either gold plated MS Audio Star Line plugs or WBT plugs (the current version of the Eichmann bullets (ETI) have silver contact surfaces and are not recommended due to the build up of a sulphide layer and the resultant requirement for regular cleaning, and potential incompatibility with the gold contacts on the Ulrika).

For the XLR the standard Neutrik plugs are fine (e.g. NC3MXX)

 

This will cost less than $800kr (SEK), then you can put the money saved toward the 552!

 

* I currently use W2549 cable but I'm about to make up cables using W2497 cable (and also Klotz MC5000) and will post my results on this forum.

the XLR plugs ideally should have silver plating rather than gold plating as the input XLR to the nap 250 is silver plated.

NC3MXX is nickel body, silver plated pins.

Marcus 

if you visit Leicester then you could always spend the weekend in Birmingham - not as exciting for your partner as London but plenty of interest to see with good shops, restaurants and museums. Plenty of good live music at the splendid Symphony Hall if you choose your visit date to coincide with whichever music you both like

Bob

The Strat (Fender) posted:

Marcus - you have an awesome system. I'd enjoy the music.  As I see it your only real improvement is 552/500 - start saving

You are probably right! I will start saving for a NAC552 right away. A NAP500 is definitely out of the scope for me but I think the NAP300 is a very good poweramp so no worries... 

All logic is telling me that a preamp upgrade should do a lot more for the system performance compared to “some fancy cables” but after hearing how much better the Chord Music was compared to SL I have started to wonder.

It would be nice to make the demo NAC552 + my current cables vs NAC252 + full loom Sarum T, just to be sure…

/Marcus

Shropshire Hills posted:

Marcus 

if you visit Leicester then you could always spend the weekend in Birmingham - not as exciting for your partner as London but plenty of interest to see with good shops, restaurants and museums. Plenty of good live music at the splendid Symphony Hall if you choose your visit date to coincide with whichever music you both like

Bob

Thank you, Bob! Very good suggestion! Much appritiated!

I will start to convince my wife that our next weekend away from the kids should go to Birmingham 

/Marcus

Joppe posted:

Marcus, yes auditioning 500 series amps (and source when it was availble) is almost impossible here.  Not that I have asked my dealer if he could arange a 552 demo. But juding from the difficulty of arranging a din-xlr demo for my 300 (of any cable) I assume it would not be very easy to arrange.

I see you have SL full loom, were you able too find a demo din-xlr cable, or did you make your purchase based on faith (and din  experience)?

It looks like I at least will be able to audition din-din versions of SL against Chord Signature TA, Sarum T and Music in the upcoming weeks. Not a bad start...

Hi Joppe!

Have you been able to audition any cables yet? It would be interesting to hear your impressions of the different cables and how they performed in your system!

/Marcus

Actually I got to audition din-din versions of chord Signature TA, Sarum T and Music against Super Lumina in my system before Christmas. To me SL came out on top in my system, I got a stronger sense of presence and drive (I believe what some refer to as “leading edge”) compared to the chord cables. In this sense I believe that my hiline was the closest, a Naim carachter? SL as well as the more expensive Chord cables offer superior resolution and insight compared to my hiline. Possibly the chords offer a bit more natural and richer tonality than SL? But for me it is hard to ignore the presence and drive of the Super Lumina.

Now my quandary is, would my conclusion be the same with rca-din from my LP12/Urika? Anyone who’s  prefered different cables for digital and Urika?

Absolutely..the standard Linn Silvers can be improved upon for the Urika. 

I currently use Chord Music but lived with Chord STA and SuperSarum in this application and both were a significant upgrade from the Silvers. 

ATB,

Mark 

Joppe posted:

Actually I got to audition din-din versions of chord Signature TA, Sarum T and Music against Super Lumina in my system before Christmas. To me SL came out on top in my system, I got a stronger sense of presence and drive (I believe what some refer to as “leading edge”) compared to the chord cables. In this sense I believe that my hiline was the closest, a Naim carachter? SL as well as the more expensive Chord cables offer superior resolution and insight compared to my hiline. Possibly the chords offer a bit more natural and richer tonality than SL? But for me it is hard to ignore the presence and drive of the Super Lumina.

Now my quandary is, would my conclusion be the same with rca-din from my LP12/Urika? Anyone who’s  prefered different cables for digital and Urika?

That is what I found too, the Chord's just don't have that leading edge ability of a Naim cable.

But it's a big market, and I guess different cables for different taste.

I used to have Chord SignatureTuned Aray RCA - DIN and DIN - XLR and did the remove them and see if you miss them test and I didn't miss them.

I agree 100% spend the money on your pre amp or your source first but if you must I would go phono stage - Nac first and then speaker cable.

Joppe posted:

Hi all,

I have followed cable threads conserning Super Lumina (SL) and Chords offers Signature TA (Signature, STA), Sarum T (and the older SA and TA) and Music with interest over the last year or so. I have Linn/LP12/urika with naim standard rca-din (lavender) and cds3/555dr with hiline (or std naim) into 252/300dr (std. cables) and Magico S1 speakers through Chord epic ref (or naca5). 

I have heard chord STA and SL interconnects in my system before service/dr and with previous dynaudio speakers. I also heard Music an Sarum SA in dealer demos, but not Sarum T. 

Auditions of din-din versions I hope are possible but most likely not rca-din or din-xlr. 

In my setup I believe the epic ref speaker cable offer more detail and presence to instruments compared to Naca5, which have a a nicer tonal balance with a richer tone to eg male voices. Comparing hiline to std Naim ic on cds3 also show a similar effect (hiline more detailed but overall slightly brighter). 

So, my question(s)? Could I have the best of both worlds without breaking the bank? Do I need to consider full loom, or is just ICs enough in this pussel? Would even starting with the din-xlr make sense (it will for sure benefit both sources)? All experiences and advice are appreciated!

Given the nature of the question, I suppose the mention of specific brands is allowed. So my answer(s) is (are): Vertere, yes, perhaps better, I have no idea.

Best

M. 

Can I very politely ask Richard firstly why a particular cable manufacturer does not wish their products discussed on this forum and secondly why the administrators have agreed to this rather North Koreaesque request.

if this was a football forum and the CEO of Arsenal demanded that the club was not discussed we would all laugh at him.

For the record I have absolutely no idea which manufacturer has asked this although I obviously know a few who have not.  And no offence to Arsenal!

It is a reasonable right of everyone to not have their name mentioned on a public forum, particularly if members have previously levelled possibly unfair criticism against them.

I can't tell you who the manufacturers are (that would be against forum rules), but by reverse engineering the effects, I may be able to tell you who they aren't...

One does not make TP-Link network products; the other does not make Continuous Wave radio transmission gear (and that's sailing as close to the edge of the world as I'm prepared to go - I can distantly hear the rimfalls!)