Naim and Devialet

Mogul

I own and embarrassing amount of Naim and also an older Devialet 170. Love them all but I do think Devialet/Unitiserve type systems are the future. They can be superb.

I would never admit in mixed company how much Naim gear has moved through our home; always up the ladder, always happy with improvements. I'm pretty sure it's  a form of addiciion but one that's good for you  (maybe not for your bank account).But the change to the Devi D400 has moved my music to another level. I am also thrilled with the performance of the Unitiserve as a ripper/streamer. It's near the bottom of the Naim range as a stand alone cdp, but the ripped/streamed music is stunning.

I checked on the Devialet 400 and it appears that this is a two chassis amp which comes with a built-in DAC. At a retail of USD17,495, this setup is significantly cheaper than the NAC 552 / 555PS / NAP 300, and to be able to sound better than the Naim is saying a lot. The folks at Naim wouldn't be happy. 

To some degree, "sounding better" is in the ear of the beholder, especially when we are listening to such excellent electronics.  

mogul posted:

The phono pre in the Devi is and the programmed to be perfectly tuned to my cartridge....

... I began to understand how a ripped cd streamed through a DAC can sound better than through a cdp. 

Mogul, I heard a Devialet 400 system via Sopra 2 at a dealer and was very impressed by the tonal balance, resolution/clarity, and low noise floor. Quite engaging in the short-term but no chance for me to evaluate it's long-term musicality or whether it might tend toward the dry side. Safe to conclude that along with ripped CDs you also find vinyl replay through the Devialet DAC better than direct analog replay? (or maybe I'm not understanding the details of your current set-up)

Mogul,I have active Dynaudio XD 600s,and they are obviously different than Devialet;but fed from my Naim Core directly sound fantastic.My problem is that I don’t want to put all my eggs in one basket,so I also have a 272/xpsdr/250dr feeding Special 40s.I am not ready to give up all my Naim gear yet,I like it too much...maybe one day.If only the Core had internet radio and Tidal,I might just sell the rest.

I had the 220 pro at home for a couple of weeks to demo against a Chord Hugo TT / 250DR based system. Source was an Auralic Aries, and I use PMC 20.23 speakers.

To my ears the Devialet was clearly superior to the Naim combination in resolution, finesse, soundstage. On some female vocal tracks, and in some low volume listening situations I did slightly prefer the Naim, but overall I felt the Devialet had the edge. I also did some blind A/B comparisons, and the Devialet also came out on top.

So ultimately the Naim system was sold to fund the new purchase.

Thanks for the responses. 

The Devialet D400 is a dual mono  integrated amp with DAC and phono pre on board.  I've been using the Devi's for long enough now to feel that the musical performance is the best I've had in my home, by quite a measure. Vinyl is better than ever. The excellent DAC and programmable settings in the D400  match your cartridge. The pre-amp in the Devi is invisible. 

My TT and cartridge are very good but a long way from state of analogue art. In my head it's not a fair comparison to a highly capable DAC with hi-res sources. 

My vinyl collection stalled as I invested in Naim gear and cd's.  Presently in my set up, digital sources surpass analogue musically but vinyl is still very good. A hi-res digital source provides the best sounding source (in my set up). No doubt there could be a superior TT and cartridge connected to the Devi phono-pre. 

I don't want to discredit Naim gear. The reason that I kept investing in Naim for many years is that every upgrade added musical improvements. I was never disappointed. 

I've shifted to Devialet for a variety of reasons other than musical performance (space, working capital, obsolescence) and in the process discovered music at a new level.  The dual mono. amp/pre-amp configuration has huge advantages. The noise floor is practically bottomless and below human hearing.  Pure effortless power is delivered to my speakers.  The Unitiserve provides an excellent data streaming source. I'm sure some superior models in the Naim line would be even more impressive as digital source components. 

mogul posted:

To some degree, "sounding better" is in the ear of the beholder, especially when we are listening to such excellent electronics.  

Quite agree. Both Naim and Devialet make excellent products that you can build great systems around. Glad you are enjoying yours Mogul.

James

The Aurender W20 music server is said to be very special.

interesting. Whenever I hear the Devialet Phantom it always makes me smile. Excellent engineering.

I am tempted by the Kii Threes, using my unitiserve and/or NDS as the source. This would provide active speakers with DACs, amps , and DSP.

There is no phono pre option however, so I would need to keep my Tron reference phono stage.

This is a shocking display of mutiny, you should all be banned from the forum with immediate effect!

Where are Devialet made?  Is it France?  I am just curious here and it doesn't relate to the topic as such.

I've listened to one of those white crash helmet looking contraptions in a hifi shop, and while it sounded impressive it's an obnoxious looking thing and i'd never have one in my home.  This is just my opinion here before anyone gets offended!  I think their deign will age very quickly, it doesn't have that timeless quality that Naim does.

I am sure their higher end products are good as the reviews are excellent, but overall their styling is far too bling and gaudy for me.  Hifi for me is an embodiment of function and fashion, so the aesthetics are very important.

I'll stick with Naim, my Chrome Bumper gear is unparalleled in sound and style!

*awaits flaming*

Here here as they say in the other place...

mogul,

Just out of interest, did you try any of Naim's streaming options?

I don't have any experience of systems at the level you are talking about but I too sold my CD player. I heard Linn Majik DS/ 202/200 vs CDX2/XPS/202/200 and preferred the Majik. Clearly. I bought Majik DS an used it with my 102/hicap/napsc/180 for a while before buying a SuperUniti (prefer the Naim presentation with streaming). My point is just that I agree with you that streaming should be better than CD replay. 

Lewis posted:

I am sure their higher end products are good as the reviews are excellent, but overall their styling is far too bling and gaudy for me.  Hifi for me is an embodiment of function and fashion, so the aesthetics are very important.

I'll stick with Naim, my Chrome Bumper gear is unparalleled in sound and style!

Oh i don't know Lewis. They can play quite nicely together 

Devialet is a French company. I now have French amps connected to a British streamer, connected to a Chinese hard disc. Instruction manuals just don't cover this! 

Those speakers remind me of an Edsel, or maybe a time trial cyclist. Never heard them though. They would have to be pretty amazing to find a place in my home. 

The amps are very discrete, almost invisible, tucked into a Fraim rack. Mounted on a wall they would not be so discrete!

I understand the sacrilegious nature of it all. Purists won't notice for years to come.  It's important to understand that in my system, I am comparing two digital systems...Naim source: cd555 connected to 552/300 and Naim source: Unitiserve streaming from QNAP connected to Devialet  D400. 

As for vinyl, the Devialet does a better job in my home than a PS Audio phono pre into a 552. It might be worth a visit to the Devialet forum to see what users are saying about the phono pre performance.

mogul posted:

 

Devialet is a French company. I now have French amps connected to a British streamer, connected to a Chinese hard disc. Instruction manuals just don't cover this! 

Those speakers remind me of an Edsel, or maybe a time trial cyclist. Never heard them though. They would have to be pretty amazing to find a place in my home. 

The amps are very discrete, almost invisible, tucked into a Fraim rack. Mounted on a wall they would not be so discrete!

I understand the sacrilegious nature of it all. Purists won't notice for years to come.  It's important to understand that in my system, I am comparing two digital systems...Naim source: cd555 connected to 552/300 and Naim source: Unitiserve streaming from QNAP connected to Devialet  D400. 

As for vinyl, the Devialet does a better job in my home than a PS Audio phono pre into a 552. It might be worth a visit to the Devialet forum to see what users are saying about the phono pre performance.

 

melco is japanese, not chinese....or i am wrong?

I'm using QNAP which has headquarters in Taipei. I have no opinion on preferred network storage. This one works well for me and has 2TB space on two hard drives. More than enough to store +- 1000 cd's.

Thanks for sharing your story. I have heard the Devialet at multiple shows and the setup has always impressed me. But I always had at some point in time of the demo that it was too clean etc, and I missed a level of musicality I like in a Naim setup. I don't now want to embark on a discussion what's better or not, as that's very personal......., but I have to say that I impressed in what Devialet offers at the price and the small package. 

French Rooster posted:

mogul posted:

 

Devialet is a French company. I now have French amps connected to a British streamer, connected to a Chinese hard disc. Instruction manuals just don't cover this! 

Those speakers remind me of an Edsel, or maybe a time trial cyclist. Never heard them though. They would have to be pretty amazing to find a place in my home. 

The amps are very discrete, almost invisible, tucked into a Fraim rack. Mounted on a wall they would not be so discrete!

I understand the sacrilegious nature of it all. Purists won't notice for years to come.  It's important to understand that in my system, I am comparing two digital systems...Naim source: cd555 connected to 552/300 and Naim source: Unitiserve streaming from QNAP connected to Devialet  D400. 

As for vinyl, the Devialet does a better job in my home than a PS Audio phono pre into a 552. It might be worth a visit to the Devialet forum to see what users are saying about the phono pre performance.

 

melco is japanese, not chinese....or i am wrong?

You are correct. Used to make turntables as a sideline to their hard-drive business (Buffalo) now the Melco servers. Very high quality.

Devialet make the bold claim of having the best sound in the world. If this is true then they must be seriously good alchemists. They convert analogue audio to digital and then back again to analogue (using nothing special off the shelf AD/DAC chips) before it hits a class d amp. When using SAM processing any bit perfect digital audio will no longer be lossless. Is this really the future path to audio nirvana? I confess I have never heard a Devialet.

I decided to look at their website today, and it is strangely familiar to this site with members moaning about lack of information, no streaming board, customer loyalty lacking from the company. Deja vu

....

Hi Bert Schurink

As I mentioned in an earlier post, personal preferences are a big part of determining what's better. The Devi is better in my set up but one could always go further up the Naim ladder and find better again. Devialet has a ladder too...D440, D1000 and so on. Streaming devices can be improved upon as well. And then there's room acoustics in a "real life" home.

What I do know is that I have been able to reduce space, interconnects, shelves, electronic boxes, level of investment and end up  with more flexibility and better sound. I'm happy! 

And to Halloween Man:

Dig a bit deeper into their hybrid Class A/Class D amplification. Class A sound/Class D punch. More alchemy. I don't know how or why it works but it does.

As for "best sound in the world"...their marketing is relentlessly over the top!

Gazza

Their online configuration tool has a steep learning curve and support is more of a concept than reality. Naim provided me with excellent support for the UServe (from Plurison here in Canada). However I understand from the Devi forum that there are all kinds of complaints re: tech glitches and lacking support.