Small speakers for Nap 300

Innocent Bystander posted:

Bob the Builder posted:

 

Is it too loud bass that's the problem? Or symply the X32s? I know nothing of them, but What HiFi Criticises them for "Lack of clarity at very high volumes". Maybe it is just a different speaker you need, not necessarily one lacking in bass. 

Bass is not the problem at all the problem is as What Hifi says in an otherwise glowing review lacks clarity at very high volumes.  This seems to have become more apparent with the extra power of the 300 although they do sound better than ever before at low levels.

Bob the Builder posted:

Innocent Bystander posted:

Bob the Builder posted:

 

Is it too loud bass that's the problem? Or symply the X32s? I know nothing of them, but What HiFi Criticises them for "Lack of clarity at very high volumes". Maybe it is just a different speaker you need, not necessarily one lacking in bass. 

Bass is not the problem at all the problem is as What Hifi says in an otherwise glowing review lacks clarity at very high volumes.  This seems to have become more apparent with the extra power of the 300 although they do sound better than ever before at low levels.

I didn't mean I thought bass was the problem, rather the reverse - I thought you must have decided bass was the problem so choosing to go for small speakers.

Maybe just different, rather than specifically smaller, is what is needed?

Huge posted:

French Rooster posted:

the "uniticorn” seems also to be a kind of animal, a cat perhaps, playing ever and ever with its metadata....( refer to uniticore) 

For native UK English speakers, Uniti Corn is a bad joke!

i didn’t know the meaning of this bad joke. Just wanted to say as there’s always something wrong with the uniticore, i put some corns ( or horns?) on the uniticore ( unitichorns? or uniticorn?)

Bob the Builder posted:

Timmo1341 posted:

                                

 

Just out of interest Bob, what are the dimensions of your living room?

It is 4m x 4 &1/2m and is the front room in a Victorian terraced 2 up 2 down that has 9" solid brick walls and suspended wooden floors.  The room has a fire place and two alcoves the system is in the right hand alcove nearest the window one speaker is to the left of and quite close to the system the other is in front of the other alcove which has a shelving storage unit built in to it.  As you can see the set up is not ideal and does lend itself to stand mounted speakers I suppose.

wilson benesh arc work in heaven with naim....perhaps on your budget in used market.

Pev posted:

I play music loud in a small (5mx5m) room and find Nsats and a sub work very well - actually better than my previous large Monitor Audio floorstanders. Nsats are fairly easy to find S/H but Nsubs are rare and IMHO overpriced when they do come up. Other subs, such as my Velodyne, can and do work very well.

I run a pair of NBLs in a room similar to Bob’s with no trouble from the bass despite it being about 2 feet from the edge of the clean stack which has an unsuspended turntable on it’s top shelf. Ported speakers weren’t so easy to accomodate despite being a fraction of the volume. With solid walls and a suspended floor SBLs might do the trick, NBLs are a bit of a gamble with no bass or mid drivers left.

Halloween Man posted:

French Rooster posted:

 

i prefer a little bit sugar to very neutral sound, because the neutral sound tends to sound bright or agressive with some recordings. I don’t want to listen only to audiophile recordings.

The other point with accurate and neutral is that it can be boring too.  Atc are very accurate but not very colorful, not rich in tone colors...I prefer to run them with a powerful tube amp personally, like audio research.

My ideal sound with naim amps are sonus faber like speakers, but faster.....( i choose apertura)

Many like the warm sound of distortion that a tube amp brings. To my ears it flattens and softens everything.  I like to hear music as the artist intended, ATC speakers give me that. I've never found them boring, always found them to reflect the true tonal colours of the music which just enhances the emotional involvement.

i just gave my inner experience based on my ears. Your ears and feeling are different....you are right with what you hear by yourself.   For tube electronics, there are not all soft and syrupy......My ear 912 is more dynamic than my previous nac282/ supercap.

Bob the Builder posted:

Timmo1341 posted:

                                

 

Just out of interest Bob, what are the dimensions of your living room?

It is 4m x 4 &1/2m and is the front room in a Victorian terraced 2 up 2 down that has 9" solid brick walls and suspended wooden floors.  The room has a fire place and two alcoves the system is in the right hand alcove nearest the window one speaker is to the left of and quite close to the system the other is in front of the other alcove which has a shelving storage unit built in to it.  As you can see the set up is not ideal and does lend itself to stand mounted speakers I suppose.

Suspended floors can be a problem, especially if the whole floor has any ‘bounce’ in it. I have found that any ill effects can sometimes be mitigated by ensuring that all of the boards are very solidly fixed down. Timbers can shrink in old floors, causing nails to loosen, and plumbers or electricians often make a dreadful mess when thet lift old floorboards. I’ve used fully threaded lost head screws to good effect to fix any offending boards. 

I know you have said purchase used, but how about Russell K Red 50?

Whilst it's the sound that is important, they displayed a pair at Bristol in a stunning masur birch finish.

OP I would highly recommend the Harbeth Monitor 30.1 without grill. Or the Harbeth SHL5 plus with the grill. I have used the latter successfully with a NAP300. great bass and depth to the sound. Slightly laid back but very enjoyable indeed. Pre was an 82/SUPERCAP.

I am currently running the Harbeth M30.1 with a NAP 250DR. Personally I prefer this speaker with Naim gear. The SHL5 PLUS has a larger scale and deeper bass. But with Naim separates amplification you get such weight and attack that I don't feel the need to use a large speaker. Unless, you require a very loud sound and/or have a large room. The bass depth/weight and definition from my 252/SUPERCAP and NAP250DR through the Harbeth M30.1s is truly breathtaking to me.

PS the Harbeth shl5 plus with grill off does sound more dynamic. But, the driver integration is not the best. Monitor 30.1 has no such issue.

Right after preliminary discussions with my better half I think we can safely rule out SBL's and even if she didn't think them ugly anything that has to go against a wall is out because the two alcoves in our living room are filled with those stacks of white cubes that are great for LP's but mean speakers cannot go hard against a wall and in my case must stand 6 - 12 inches in front of those shelving units.

 As suggested above it may just be my floor stander that is not good for me so as well as a stand mounted if anyone knows of any speaker that is ok in my room (description above) obviously compromises must be made somewhere.

I would seriously consider trying the Dynaudio special 40s,you like what Dyn does,but want a better top end...the excite 32 is entry level,special 40 has their newest tech,and an esotar tweeter,I love mine.

Bob the Builder posted:

Timmo1341 posted:

                                

 

Just out of interest Bob, what are the dimensions of your living room?

It is 4m x 4 &1/2m and is the front room in a Victorian terraced 2 up 2 down that has 9" solid brick walls and suspended wooden floors.  The room has a fire place and two alcoves the system is in the right hand alcove nearest the window one speaker is to the left of and quite close to the system the other is in front of the other alcove which has a shelving storage unit built in to it.  As you can see the set up is not ideal and does lend itself to stand mounted speakers I suppose.

I’m using Tablette 10 in a similar Victorian room about 0.5m larger in both dimensions - They work a treat 16cm from a solid back wall.

No quarter posted:

I would seriously consider trying the Dynaudio special 40s,you like what Dyn does,but want a better top end...the excite 32 is entry level,special 40 has their newest tech,and an esotar tweeter,I love mine.

The OP has a more modest budget...

Given the room, it would seem likely that the Tablette 10 wouldn’t work as, like the SBL, they benefit from wall mounting. Given the quality of the rest of the system, I think it might be the case that the budget would benefit from enlargement. I was listening to Dynaudio Contour 20s recently, and was very impressed. At a more modest budget, the ATC 11 that Jon recommended sounds like a very good idea and would be well driven by the 300. I have never heard ATCs as there seem to be very few dealers and would very much like to one day. The only downside to the Contour 20, other than the price, is that they are rear ported. I’ve never got ported speakers to work in my room, and that may be an issue for the OP. The ATCs are sealed, which may be what is needed. Maybe it’s possible to borrow some. 

Innocent Bystander posted:

No quarter posted:

I would seriously consider trying the Dynaudio special 40s,you like what Dyn does,but want a better top end...the excite 32 is entry level,special 40 has their newest tech,and an esotar tweeter,I love mine.

The OP has a more modest budget...

Sorry,I did not notice that...worth saving up for though,they sound fabulous at very low volume,all the way up to deafening levels.

For close placement to wall in a relatively small room then sealed speaker such as scm11, scm19, Tablette 10, etc or front ported speaker such as new spendor classic range, harbeth, Graham audio, pmc, etc would be on my short list.

Personally, I think you would find it difficult to better ATC SCM19, or 11 if budget dictates.

My bay window is opposite the alcoves giving me a nice flat wall to put speakers against opposite the door, though I did move the door to make room for seating to listen from.

Reading Bob’s description more carefully it seems the bay wall is next to the alcoves and the speakers will back on to the alcoves. The ATCs might be a good bet as there’s no port to confuse the sound at high levels but it really needs to be sorted out by auditioning and can take months to pick the right speakers unless you get lucky.

Sopra 1 on XPS- 272- 250DR sounded HOT! I'm sure NAP300DR could be even more impressive  

My room has the same dimensions as yours with a chimney breast and the speakers either side in alcoves, my system is a bit more modest - 272 into nap200. I am now into double figures in the speakers I have tried due to trying to get the bass right. I've not thought of ATC SCM11s before as they were a bit below my budget (and think the 19s wont fit in my room) but today had a demo at a dealers and was blown away - I was expecting compromise but found the speakers to have a fantastic balance, great midrange and wide soundstage, they were also not lacking in bass but it was tight  - I think they are exactly what I am looking for and have a home demo booked for next week.

Would strongly suggest trying these as they might be what you are looking for.

mcjt posted:

Sopra 1 on XPS- 272- 250DR sounded HOT! I'm sure NAP300DR could be even more impressive  

 

Something looks wrong with the pic. Are the speakers pointing up at the listener? And what is between the speaker and stand?

I'm troubled because I've always thought the 'small' Sopras looked handsome.

Bob, I've not heard you naysay the WB Arcs yet and I notice I'm not alone with my suggestion of them....

IIRC they have isobaric do-dahs so they are chuff tight in the fulsome bass dept.

Christopher_M posted:

mcjt posted:

Sopra 1 on XPS- 272- 250DR sounded HOT! I'm sure NAP300DR could be even more impressive  

 

Something looks wrong with the pic. Are the speakers pointing up at the listener? And what is between the speaker and stand?

I'm troubled because I've always thought the 'small' Sopras looked handsome.

Bob, I've not heard you naysay the WB Arcs yet and I notice I'm not alone with my suggestion of them....

IIRC they have isobaric do-dahs so they are chuff tight in the fulsome bass dept.

you are not alone, for me the wilson benesh are among the best choices.  For the photo here, between the speakers and the stand : iso acoustics support 

MangoMonkey posted:

The harbeth C7s come to mind..

Harbeth C7s are not small, and hardly stand mounts. They are full sounding and everything is inside the boxes. The 300 is subterranean bass-gifted, linear, mannered and strong as a weigh lifter. Their marriage cannot bring other than discord.

Or is it my feelings about marriage? 

Bob the Builder posted:

Right after preliminary discussions with my better half I think we can safely rule out SBL's and even if she didn't think them ugly anything that has to go against a wall is out because the two alcoves in our living room are filled with those stacks of white cubes that are great for LP's but mean speakers cannot go hard against a wall and in my case must stand 6 - 12 inches in front of those shelving units.

 As suggested above it may just be my floor stander that is not good for me so as well as a stand mounted if anyone knows of any speaker that is ok in my room (description above) obviously compromises must be made somewhere.

my room is about 4,5 X 4 m, with suspended wooden floor, and i use nap 300 too.  I had speakers with 2 medium/ bass woofers of 17 cm each. I had before difficulties with bass reflexion: i put granite slabs and finite elemente cerabases under the speakers, and also 2 thick carpets on the floor.  I have no more problems with bass now or bad resonances.  But i am near a limit.  I was tempted also to take standmonths speakers.....but i prefer a sound with more body.

I currently use PMC20.21 and they are very good in a small room - stunning. I think possibly the PMC Twenty5.21's would be even better............. I am currently building a hot pair of Linn Kans ....... using a super braced and damped cabinet.....when this is done I will fee back.....

Richieroo posted:

I currently use PMC20.21 and they are very good in a small room - stunning. I think possibly the PMC Twenty5.21's would be even better............. I am currently building a hot pair of Linn Kans ....... using a super braced and damped cabinet.....when this is done I will fee back.....

I've got a new set of PMC25.23s on the end of  a Nova in a 3.5m * 4.3m room, they sound great. The 25.23s are new product  and not showing up second hand yet (that I've noticed), the predecessor 20.23s look like they'd fit into your pricepoint, might be worth thinking about as small elegant floorstanders.