SBL Passive crossover be used on Naim Allae?

I guess it's theoretically possible, however the drive units are orientated differently and so in practice they likely won't fit.

Thanks Richard. If the crossover is the same then I should be able to change/reverse the connecting wires so the orientation is correct for the drivers. This assumes the SBL crossover is compatible with the Allae's.

That's an assumption best addressed through asking Naim - I don't know whether they are exactly the same.  Beyond that, any DIY discussion here falls outside of forum AUP.

Out of interest, why do you wish to do this?  

My crossover is from 2003 Naim Allae's. Naim no longer supplies new crossovers but I have noticed a 3 year old SBL crossover for sale.  Figured my crossover might need to be recapped.

Are your Allaes sounding particularly poor compared to when new?  If not then I'd leave as is rather than butcher some SBL crossovers that may not even be appropriate.

Just out of interest, I called Naim direct about replacing my Credo crossovers because of their age and that I thought were a bit long in the tooth and needed replacing.  I was told that there was no need and that they don't need servicing unless there is an actual fault with them that was brought on by other means or abuse. Those Credos to this day are still doing a sterling service since 1998, both speakers work exactly the same and sound as they should.

It was only because of reading posts on this here forum that got me to call Naim and ask for re-placements. It turns out (for me at least) - don't believe everything you read. If your Allae's are working and sounding just fine it's probably because they are. I will suggest looking at other things, such as solder connections on both the crossover sockets or speaker cable plugs if your Allae's are not sounding  as fresh as they should.

Not sure if this helps but it's from my own experience, just thought i'd pass it on.

On a related subject, I called Naim earlier this year to ask if my N-Sub would benefit from a service at some stage. Given that it has a power amp in it, I had assumed it might benefit from a recap at some point. The answer was no, don’t bother. 

Thanks for all the comments. Speakers just do not seem correct that is why I considered the crossover. I have just gone through the system and all connections. Plan to do some other checking this weekend.

ChrisSU posted:

On a related subject, I called Naim earlier this year to ask if my N-Sub would benefit from a service at some stage. Given that it has a power amp in it, I had assumed it might benefit from a recap at some point. The answer was no, don’t bother. 

Interesting bit of info Chris, thanks.  

Richard Dane posted:

ChrisSU posted:

On a related subject, I called Naim earlier this year to ask if my N-Sub would benefit from a service at some stage. Given that it has a power amp in it, I had assumed it might benefit from a recap at some point. The answer was no, don’t bother. 

Interesting bit of info Chris, thanks.  

I must admit I was a little surprised - a Naim amp that never needs a recap? Then again, I'm not an electrical engineer.

SJButler posted:

Speakers just do not seem correct .....

In what way?

Maybe it’s all the LFD amplifiers and cables. There are so many unknowns it’s hard to say if it’s the speakers. 

You sometimes see people replacing their tweeters and claiming a benefit on older speakers, is this worth the hassle? Can't say I've noticed a problem except with sagging mounting plates which I've just bent back into shape as best I could. My NBLs were 10 years old when I got them, is it worth renewing the tweeters on the old plates after say 15 years?  (I had Naim's last crossovers which were presumably new old stock so they at least should be OK).

I recall a recommendation many years ago to rotate drivers periodically (e.g annually) to even out/ reverse any gradual gravity-induced deformation (=sagging). I think that would only be relevant for larger units bass, and possibly mid), however against that there is the risk of causing a deterioration by damaging the sealing between driver and baffle. All I have done myself is invert the drivers if/when I have had occasion to have them out.

And on the subject of aging of speakers, whilst some drivers may deteriorate with time, others don't: a lot depends on the construction materials. I once had a speaker with midrange units - Peerless KO40something rings a bell - the cone foam surrounds of which perished and disintegrated, yet I was unaware in daily use, presumably because deterioration had been gradual. I only discovered when I had occasion to remove the grilles. I was able to buy new surrounds and fit myself, to be surprised that the audible difference was only minor as the cones had stayed aligned and the centre suspension was sufficient to allow near-normal performance. That perishing of surrounds occurred within about 20 years or so of manufacture - but now 20 years or so further on,  the replaced surrounds show no signs of deterioration, and the speakers still play well, even though the other three drivers in each are unmodified in any way, and now over 40 years old - though admiredly my only reference point is the sound of other speakers, not having a set of brand new drivers to compare.

Coming back to the OP's problem, it would be useful to know what seems incorrect about the speakers. Although the two speakers may be the same age, the deterioration, if any, of capacitors in the crossovers is unlikely to be identical for each, so if you feel something is significantly wrong, is it the same on both speakers? If not, have you swapped them round to confirm it is a speaker not something before them? 

How about ensuring the drivers are done up to the correct torque? That seems a popular tweak. 

All good suggestions, but as Chris mentions, it might be worth understanding what the OP actually means by the speakers just do not seem correct remark.

Hungryhalibut posted:

Maybe it’s all the LFD amplifiers and cables. There are so many unknowns it’s hard to say if it’s the speakers. 

The LFD is definitely better sounding to my ears on the Allae's than a full blown Naim system with PS. I have had 3 different Naim Systems with the Allae's. The issue just was noticed when listening to a LP. It is primarily the left speaker and I plan to switch the crossover to see if the issue might be the crossover..

Christopher_M posted:

SJButler posted:

Speakers just do not seem correct .....

In what way?

Left speaker has grainy/spitting coarse sound in the upper registers. Not bad but bothers me. Show up on LP's, CD and Streaming. Plan to try to crossover from the right speaker to the left speaker  and see if this might at least rule out the crossover.

Innocent Bystander posted:

I recall a recommendation many years ago to rotate drivers periodically (e.g annually) to even out/ reverse any gradual gravity-induced deformation (=sagging). I think that would only be relevant for larger units bass, and possibly mid), however against that there is the risk of causing a deterioration by damaging the sealing between driver and baffle. All I have done myself is invert the drivers if/when I have had occasion to have them out.

And on the subject of aging of speakers, whilst some drivers may deteriorate with time, others don't: a lot depends on the construction materials. I once had a speaker with midrange units - Peerless KO40something rings a bell - the cone foam surrounds of which perished and disintegrated, yet I was unaware in daily use, presumably because deterioration had been gradual. I only discovered when I had occasion to remove the grilles. I was able to buy new surrounds and fit myself, to be surprised that the audible difference was only minor as the cones had stayed aligned and the centre suspension was sufficient to allow near-normal performance. That perishing of surrounds occurred within about 20 years or so of manufacture - but now 20 years or so further on,  the replaced surrounds show no signs of deterioration, and the speakers still play well, even though the other three drivers in each are unmodified in any way, and now over 40 years old - though admiredly my only reference point is the sound of other speakers, not having a set of brand new drivers to compare.

Coming back to the OP's problem, it would be useful to know what seems incorrect about the speakers. Although the two speakers may be the same age, the deterioration, if any, of capacitors in the crossovers is unlikely to be identical for each, so if you feel something is significantly wrong, is it the same on both speakers? If not, have you swapped them round to confirm it is a speaker not something before them? 

Great idea on swapping the crossover. I plan to do this and hopefully rule out the crossover. It is the left speaker.  Left speaker has grainy/spitting coarse sound in the upper registers.

james n posted:

All good suggestions, but as Chris mentions, it might be worth understanding what the OP actually means by the speakers just do not seem correct remark.

Left speaker has grainy/spitting coarse sound in the upper registers. I have some good recommendation from others. I plan to do this weekend.

SJButler posted:

Innocent Bystander posted:

I recall a recommendation many years ago to rotate drivers periodically (e.g annually) to even out/ reverse any gradual gravity-induced deformation (=sagging). I think that would only be relevant for larger units bass, and possibly mid), however against that there is the risk of causing a deterioration by damaging the sealing between driver and baffle. All I have done myself is invert the drivers if/when I have had occasion to have them out.

And on the subject of aging of speakers, whilst some drivers may deteriorate with time, others don't: a lot depends on the construction materials. I once had a speaker with midrange units - Peerless KO40something rings a bell - the cone foam surrounds of which perished and disintegrated, yet I was unaware in daily use, presumably because deterioration had been gradual. I only discovered when I had occasion to remove the grilles. I was able to buy new surrounds and fit myself, to be surprised that the audible difference was only minor as the cones had stayed aligned and the centre suspension was sufficient to allow near-normal performance. That perishing of surrounds occurred within about 20 years or so of manufacture - but now 20 years or so further on,  the replaced surrounds show no signs of deterioration, and the speakers still play well, even though the other three drivers in each are unmodified in any way, and now over 40 years old - though admiredly my only reference point is the sound of other speakers, not having a set of brand new drivers to compare.

Coming back to the OP's problem, it would be useful to know what seems incorrect about the speakers. Although the two speakers may be the same age, the deterioration, if any, of capacitors in the crossovers is unlikely to be identical for each, so if you feel something is significantly wrong, is it the same on both speakers? If not, have you swapped them round to confirm it is a speaker not something before them? 

Great idea on swapping the crossover. I plan to do this and hopefully rule out the crossover. It is the left speaker.  Left speaker has grainy/spitting coarse sound in the upper registers.

Before swapping crossover, first swap the speakers across (quicker and easier) - if problem stays in same speaker then swap the crossover. If stays the same side then not the speakers.

Before swapping crossovers,and even before swapping speakers,just swap speaker wire connections l to r and r to l, now where is problem ? ez way to see if it is electronics or speaker with minimal work

benjy posted:

Before swapping crossovers,and even before swapping speakers,just swap speaker wire connections l to r and r to l, now where is problem ? ez way to see if it is electronics or speaker with minimal work

Indeed, cable at amp end is simple!

Check the cable dressing also. I was in the situation that one of my loudspeakers was not dealing nicely with very high notes. I was almost convinced it was the loudspeaker: changing cables at the loudspeaker side suggested that it was related to a loudspeaker. Then I corrected my cabledressing (it was more or less a web of mains cables / interconnects / loudspeakercable). Problem gone.

Maybe there is some sensitivity in the tweeter of one of the loudspeakers, but once the amp got unpolluted signal and especially the mains cables were not close to the signal cables, it made a quite large difference.

When my Allaes started to sound distorted in the high registers, especially apparent with piano music, I first thought I had blown the tweeters. But the reason turned out to be a faulty NAP 200. So it might be worth to check the amp.