CD5 XS discontinued?

Innocent Bystander posted:

Peakman posted:

Innocent Bystander posted:

I never 'got' the Naim "series" thing. Before I bought an ND5XS a bit over 4 years ago I read up everything on the Naim website about streamers, other than going into  background white papers or historical documents, and there was absolutely nothing at that time identifying or defining the ND5XS as part of a 'series' separate from the others I now understand as the 'classic' series: the only detail mentioned other than those identifying it as the entry level 'streamer' (network player) was that it it had a slimline case. The implication was although there was a specific recommendation for an upgrade path, it was compatible with other Naim models, and the front view appeared to match.

So you never typed XS series into a search engine to find Naim's glossy black brochure labelled "XS series"?  Not to mention reading references in the Connections Newsletter.  The series even had its own logo which I'm not clever enough to reproduce here.  Still sad to see how quickly it's been cut by half.

Roger

No, and why would I, or any other prospective new purchaser? There was no suggestion that XS meant part of a particular family or level of unit, only that it had those letters at the end. Had I had any reason to notice that some other gear also ended XS (which other than noting the very similarly named XP5XS in the upgrade path I didn't, because it was a streamer I was looking for). Yes, I have since searched XS after some time later hearing people mention the XS series, and found the newsletter from 2011 that Richard has just extracted, but there was nothing in the body of yhe website giving any indication of it being a paricular 'series'.

It is completely unimportant, and although conceivably it might under different circimstances, it would not have made any difference to my decision to buy at the time that I did: I am simply noting my puzzlement that Naim didn't identify the existence of different families on the website (e.g by including against the ND5XS the paragraph Richard has just posted), yet I have since learnt it seems to be regarded by many as a distinctive series, rather than just individually being lower models in a continuous range.

It is on the website -- next to ND5XS it says "XS Series". And, surely a good dealer points this out...

TOB posted:

I've messaged Naim, for some definite answers, regarding cd5xs, service and parts well into the future. For those of us that have only just purchased one, the dealers said nothing, did they know?, and if they did why did they not tell me, or at least give me some bloody discount? Carnt trust anyone these days.

According to the article, the price shown has been reduced in the States by $1000.00 dollars!!

Innocent Bystander posted:

Peakman posted:

Innocent Bystander posted:

I never 'got' the Naim "series" thing. Before I bought an ND5XS a bit over 4 years ago I read up everything on the Naim website about streamers, other than going into  background white papers or historical documents, and there was absolutely nothing at that time identifying or defining the ND5XS as part of a 'series' separate from the others I now understand as the 'classic' series: the only detail mentioned other than those identifying it as the entry level 'streamer' (network player) was that it it had a slimline case. The implication was although there was a specific recommendation for an upgrade path, it was compatible with other Naim models, and the front view appeared to match.

So you never typed XS series into a search engine to find Naim's glossy black brochure labelled "XS series"?  Not to mention reading references in the Connections Newsletter.  The series even had its own logo which I'm not clever enough to reproduce here.  Still sad to see how quickly it's been cut by half.

Roger

No, and why would I, or any other prospective new purchaser? There was no suggestion that XS meant part of a particular family or level of unit, only that it had those letters at the end. Had I had any reason to notice that some other gear also ended XS (which other than noting the very similarly named XP5XS in the upgrade path I didn't, because it was a streamer I was looking for). Yes, I have since searched XS after some time later hearing people mention the XS series, and found the newsletter from 2011 that Richard has just extracted, but there was nothing in the body of yhe website giving any indication of it being a paricular 'series'.

It is completely unimportant, and although conceivably it might under different circimstances, it would not have made any difference to my decision to buy at the time that I did: I am simply noting my puzzlement that Naim didn't identify the existence of different families on the website (e.g by including against the ND5XS the paragraph Richard has just posted), yet I have since learnt it seems to be regarded by many as a distinctive series, rather than just individually being lower models in a continuous range.

I agree with IB and for exactly the same reason when I was looking for my first stand alone streamer/dac the ND5XS was the one I purchased thinking that it was just an entry level Naim streamer not that it was part of it's own range and this after owning Nap 150 no X a Nac 122 X and then a Flatcap 2 XS so hardly clear.

Richard Dane posted:

TOB posted:

Well well well, another top product bites the dust, let's just hope all those who own, and intend to keep and cherish their cd5xs well into the future will be able to get them serviced and buy new parts, can Naim guarantee this?, at least for the next 10 years? Anyone like to comment, maybe Naim themselfs?.

Tob, if you're worried then just mail Stephen Hopkins at the factory.  Naim usually try to ensure they have enough parts to service kit for a number of years hence.  CD players though present some unique problems - for example, the mechs don't like to be stored too long and the useable yield reduces from your stock the longer they're kept.

Indeed in the days of the CDS1, I heard that Naim used to periodically have to fire up their spare transport stock to keep them from getting 'sticky' during storage. But that was when there was one, and at best two CD players in their entire product history. I wonder if any of the current stock gets taken out for a walk every so often....

Most of us seem to want, more or less consciously, two things: that Naim will always be there, and that it will be the Naim we want.

Naim perhaps wants two things too: to continue being there, and to be wanted by someone.

Perhaps we and someone are not the same people. When Naim will be something so future that none of us will have a model to like, buy and use, someone else will. Then, a small group of old customers will always exist: those who get to like whatever new products Naim makes, just to carry the marriage on happily.

Or we'll buy some other brand, if death won't have bought us back before.

Let's enjoy!

M

sihctr posted:

The clock must be ticking for those sweet BB-1704K chips as well... I wonder how many have been stockpiled for CDX (next on the chopping board?) nDAC and NDS...

Yeah those Texas Instrument DACs, (Burr Brown ceased to be many years ago) have been listed as not recommended for new designs by the manufacturer for a few years now as they are quite old and relatively outdated designs but they are still made so I understand because they are popular albeit their age and out dated designsmakes the performance / cost ratio less attractive, and there are apparently more consistently performant designs from TI now... so potentially less rejection from the Naim selection processes for future products... therefore lower cost base.

i suspect the Pacific Microsonics DSP of the CDX2 is under more threat ( I believe the PMD200) ... although PM ceased to be a while back, I assume they are made under licence by somebody else now.

Other manufacturers have produced new dedicated CD players comparatively recently (eg Hegel and Bryston). So they must take the view that there is a market for them. Interestingly both the new Hegel and Bryston CD players compete, from the price point of view,  with the CDX2 rather than the CD5 XS. My local dealer claims the CDX2 is still selling surprisingly well (although that may be dealer talk). As someone who has yet to take the leap into computer based audio, I hope the CD player market remains viable for manufacturers.

Luxman still has 7 models/variant of cd players, as Accupahse got four, Esoteric got five and Yamaha  no less than six in its catalogue. So we can assume there is a market for silver spinners or there is only demand in the far East ?

Regards

Roberto

It is a great shame the xs series is being axed. Mine has been a superb music maker for a number of years and has enabled me to grow an affordable system. It has also educated me about to build a sperates system and get the most from it. A great stepping stone for my next upgrade. 

Will the rise of high quality single box systems limit the number of customers who will progress onto sperates in the classic range? I guess Naim have done their market research but if I was starting again from scratch as a novice I definitely would not spend as much as I have over the years with px and progressive upgrades. 

rsch posted:

Luxman still has 7 models/variant of cd players, as Accupahse got four, Esoteric got five and Yamaha  no less than six in its catalogue. So we can assume there is a market for silver spinners or there is only demand in the far East ?

Regards

Roberto

the japan market continues to like a lot the cd/sacd players.  Asian market too i think....

Just a comment on the Naim XS brand. I started looking at Naim in May and from looking at their web pages it was quite clear that the products were layered. i.e, Nait 5si, Naim XS 2, & SuperNait integrated amps, then for CD players, the CD5 is, CD5 XS, and CD2-2, and for the streamers the ND5 XS, NDX and NDS models. 

Certainly any reasonable individual would be able to discern that there were different product lines by viewing the web site.

Having been on the planet for 66 years I have certainly picked up on the fact that no matter how successful a company is, or has been, in any given point in time it will be the fiduciary responsibility to the stock holders that is going to drive the product mix available to customers. 

As far a CD players go, it appears that streaming music technology will continue to improve and the ability to select music via a touch pad menu vs manual manipulation of individual discs will continue to impact CD player manufacturers in the market place.

Time keeps marching on......

seakayaker posted:

Just a comment on the Naim XS brand. I started looking at Naim in May and from looking at their web pages it was quite clear that the products were layered. i.e, Nait 5si, Naim XS 2, & SuperNait integrated amps, then for CD players, the CD5 is, CD5 XS, and CD2-2, and for the streamers the ND5 XS, NDX and NDS models. 

Certainly any reasonable individual would be able to discern that there were different product lines by viewing the web site.

 

 

My experience was in 2013, before they changed the website to include the odd concept of 'marque separates', however even now if I was looking for a streamer, as Zi was then, Googling to find the home page I'd look around and not spotting 'streamer' immediately I'd select 'products', then the obvious selection is 'streamers and multi-room', and then be presented with Muso, Qb, Naim for Bentley, Nova, Atom & Star - all so far when I open them clearly not what I'm looking for, and eventually further down the page a section called "Network Player: separates digital music players..." presenting NDS, NDX and ND5XS (at this stage no mention of 'XS series'). Opening those in turn, NDS is reference player, NDX says it lies between the other two, and ND5XS "our introduction to network music streaming". Even ND5XS page doesn't mention XS series.

As I said, if I search for XS series I can find info, but nothing looking for a streamer has mentioned it. 

Anyway, it is irrelevant really: I was just pointing out Naim's lack of clarity on the website - apologies to the OP for the digreassion.

But with such prospect vinyl is even less a relevant present today with all its hassle of storage, warped discs, scratch & hiss noises, track selection convenience. However many people still buy vinyl, me included. 

Oh! for the record this month we have Pink Floyd  cd papaer sleeve re-re-release  catalogue in Japan.

Regards

Roberto

It seems everybody has forgotten Naim is not the Naim of old, you have an investment company calling the shots these days, I'm afraid there are other things that matter besides making the finest audio products at play here.

French Rooster posted:

the japan market continues to like a lot the cd/sacd players.  Asian market too i think....

I thought Japan deserved a capital and belonged to Asia... One never ends learning.

You seem to have it nailed Badlands, If naim want to go all commercial on us, so be it, funny really, all these early streamers will be obsolete in the not so distent future, it will go the way of the car industry, changing things just to keep shareholder and stock value up, anyway, iam keeping my Cd5xs till it falls apart, my supernait2 which can drive a powerstation, my dual teddy, which pisses all over that overpriced hicap, and with my new TT, iam good to go for a very long time, Streaming players can wait till I am nearlly dead and Carnt get off the settee to put an album on, or a cd, so bring on the next generation streaming, but I will just keep it Tea.????

Max_B posted:

French Rooster posted:

the japan market continues to like a lot the cd/sacd players.  Asian market too i think....

I thought Japan deserved a capital and belonged to Asia... One never ends learning.

i wanted to say : more generally Asian market.....You are right, Japan belongs to Est Asia....But does it really matter here?  

Timo posted:

Max_B posted:

French Rooster posted:

the japan market continues to like a lot the cd/sacd players.  Asian market too i think....

I thought Japan deserved a capital and belonged to Asia... One never ends learning.

What's the point of this, smart-arse? If you don't have a good weekend, listen to some music...

i discovered a new term: smart-arse.     funny, thanks 

The Chinese are very fond of German, and British kit, I sold my complete Audionet system to a Chinese dealer, good luck with that, because that stuff was a nightmare, the pre amp, and power amp 1 went faulty several times over a 6 year period, in the end I boxed them up, they sat around for another 4 years because nobody of any repute in the hifi game wanted them, but eventually a friend of mine sorted it out for me. Then it was back to naim, and reliability is restored, Audionet are doing back boxes now with red displays, nice to look at, what ever Wilson Benesch saw in that stuff I Carnt for the life of me think why. So, the morale here is sell to the east, because I would like to see what the dealers over here will give you for a second hand cd5xs when you want to upgrade?, me thinks, if you have one, and you have a large cd collection, especially high quality cds, keep your cd5xs till it becomes a vintage buy, or it dies. All hail the CD5XS.

Indeed I was hearing from one UK HiFi manufacturer yesterday about the demand for UK design and manufactured kit, apparently the Chinese market in many quarters  prefers that to domestically produced product. I also heard that production costs between China and the UK at the appropriate quality levels are not as different as they used to be.

if you speak to any decent dealers they will tell you that all cdp sales is going towards  flat lining.   I rarely listen to cds except  SACDs played my sony 3000SE deck.  hanging onto my sacds,wish I could rip them...

My friend is Chinese, and even known western brands with posh looking shops are not trusted, due to fake merchandise, and even fake shops. They prefer to buy expensive branded items in the west, there is also some bragging rights to owning products purchased in Oxford/Bond street or Paris etc. Hifi I would presume would be no different. As my friends husband owns a UK/ Chinese import and export, moving purchases, including furniture, beds, you name it, seems to be no problem.

That's good to know Gazza, I think you may well aquire some new friends on this forum when we are ready to unload some of our gear, always good to now somone, who knows someone.

Naim Debut its Reference CDP 2007 CES Show:

CD555>282>Snaxo>3 x (250)>DBLs

In 2009 Linn announces the Death of its CDP:

"Now Linn Audio, the world-renowned Glasgow-based HiFi firm, maker of some of the finest and most acclaimed CD players of the last decades (Karik/Numerik and then CD12), decide to stop CDP production for 2010."

As you say Lindsay, its a Prince Thing:

Sign Of The Times!

Allante93!

Allante93 posted:

The Strat (Fender) posted:

But apparently available for a little while.  Shame - lovely player but sign of the times.   

Regards,

Lindsay

Right you are, Lindsay!

Done a Seminar, last night!

Seminar A:

"McIntosh Group representatives will be in attendance:

Jeff Poggi, Co-CEO, McIntosh Group 
Dan Wakefield, Vice-President of Sales
Aldo Filippelli, Audio Research Director of Sales
Will Klein, Sonus faber Account Manager
Bart LoPiccolo, Regional Sales Director
Bob Staples, Regional Sales Manager, Mid-Atlantic & Eastern Midwest"

Sonas Fabar $70K Speakers

Audio Research Tube Amplifiers $66K

Nice, the Same company also purchased McIntosh. Seminar B. $30K Speakers.

Point being, McIntosh is catering to an integrated amp.

Tube pre amp with solid state amp!

Digital Streaming, all for $3.5K!

Sign of the times!

Allante93!

PS. Ovators, CD 555, Depleting XS line, CD5 XS!

Cdx 2.2???????

BTW Source for Seminar A was the Archaic CDP.

$70K Speakers & $66K tube mono Blocks

750 watts 8 ohms!

 

 

 

 

Either I havent had enough coffee, or you have had too much.

Can anyone decode this into English?