ATC SCM100 vs B&W 802 D2

Halloween Man posted:

Hi RJ. What was the source used for the ATC actives demo that gave you goosebumps? If you found the bass a little much it could be because ATC designs tend to have slower bass roll off (a good thing) which can result in more perceived bass. The port on the  50 and 100 is for woofer loading only, it doesn't boost bass.

Bass is likely to be better controlled on the actives. As you go down the range the bass gets more diminished. Perhaps the active 50 or 40 would be a better match for your room or taste.

It may be that you simply prefer the B&W sound. Have you considered the 802 D3 or 803 D3?

Hi HM, thanks for your observations.  The source at the dem was an ATC preamp, but I don't know which model.  They were also demonstrating the SCM 50 in passive configuration - that did nothing for me at all.  You're almost certainly right about preferring the B&W sound, it's what I've listened to for the past ten or so years going from 804s, 803s and then 802's and I was conscious of this preference whilst I was auditioning at home last week, so I made a deliberate effort to identify parts of the music to compare as opposed to just the general sound I was hearing.  Nonetheless the passive SCM100s were somewhat underwhelming compared to the goosebumps I had heard at the Acoustica active dem, and was anticipating at home.

Picking up on what you say about actives, and indeed what several folk have also mentioned, the fact that the active is a totally different animal, I'm thinking I should not simply write these speakers off without at least hearing them in active mode in my setup, so I'll be making a phone call to my dealer to see if I can postpone their pickup and organise their conversion to active for a few days.

rjstaines posted:

On the inside, Tobyjug, as per the user manual. Not that I'd have noticed, but Dave from ATC installed them for the dem and thankfully he seems to know how they should be (unless he just got lucky  ).

Have you tried them on the outside Richard?

I had the pleasure of having a pair of SCM 150's at home with my 555/552/500. They are remarkable speakers but very matter of fact.

I had the ART Emotions at the time which were nowhere near as accurate but they headline and sparkle which the ATC's just didn't.

If you want accuracy and frightful reproduction then the ATC's are the ones to go for, if you want a bit of life and excitement then stick with the B & W's.

Regards

PB

responding to Polarbear... definately life & excitement  (at my age you need all you can get).

and responding to others who advocate a listen to the active version... Dave from ATC will be round on Wednesday to convert the passives to active 

Can't wait !!

rjstaines posted:

responding to Polarbear... definately life & excitement  (at my age you need all you can get).

and responding to others who advocate a listen to the active version... Dave from ATC will be round on Wednesday to convert the passives to active 

Can't wait !!

Gosh, Roger. Active? You're a glutton for this black boxes  

Is that active with tripe 500s, or ATC active with their amps? I thought it was the latter, when IIRc the amps are bolted on the back of the speakers, so no power amp visible..  But I seem to also recall seeing A triple ATC amp pack with the amps built into one unit, a curvy silver thing, but maybe that was dedicated to the flagship EL150

The ATC 100 active towers cost about £18,000, whereas three 500s and crossover is the best part of £70,000, before adding speakers. It’s a huge difference!

rjstaines posted:

responding to Polarbear... definately life & excitement  (at my age you need all you can get).

and responding to others who advocate a listen to the active version... Dave from ATC will be round on Wednesday to convert the passives to active 

Can't wait !!

You're lucky ATC can just pop in with speakers for you to try! Enjoy.

Innocent Bystander posted:

Is that active with tripe 500s

Come on IB, they're not that bad!

rjstaines posted:

responding to Polarbear... definately life & excitement  (at my age you need all you can get).

and responding to others who advocate a listen to the active version... Dave from ATC will be round on Wednesday to convert the passives to active 

Can't wait !!

It will be interesting to here what you think of the active ATCs , I heard active 50s a few weeks ago and they were absolutely fabulous but I am used to the ATC sound . The active versions do seem to offer great value for money and simplicity . I will be going down the active route once I move back home after renovations but not sure  I have space for the 50s in my 3.7m wide by 2.7m high room even though it will be 14m long . 

ChrisSU posted:

Innocent Bystander posted:

Is that active with tripe 500s

Come on IB, they're not that bad!

Oooooops!!! 

Note to IB and MDS - it's the ATC active tower with the add-on bolted on the back of the speakers, so I actually lose  two black boxes if I go this route (NAP500 & NAP500PS)

And to Halloween Man  I couldn't see where you are, but if it's anywhere in the UK, I'm sure ATC would be very happy to pop around to your place with this very same pair of 100's that I currently have on loan (in either active or passive mode - the change takes about 30 mins, I'm told).

And just to prove Murphy's Law is active on the Wirral (where I am), my NS01 refused to power up after I moved it out of the way so that Dave from ATC could get to the preamp out tomorrow.   A quick bit of buggering about, plugging in a screen and keyboard to the NS01 tells me I have a CMOS checksum error... luckily an F1 continues the restart and it's up & rready for the active dem tomorrow.  Meanwhile an email is winging its way to Phil in the hope that his magic wand together with his superior intellect and knowledge of all things Naim server will identify a fix that gets around the need to F1 every time the NS01 is powered up. 

rjstaines posted:

and to Halloween Man  I couldn't see where you are, but if it's anywhere in the UK, I'm sure ATC would be very happy to pop around to your place with this very same pair of 100's that I currently have on loan (in either active or passive mode - the change takes about 30 mins, I'm told).

 

 

I'm sure you're right, in my experience ATC customer service is spectacularly good. I'd love to give bigger speakers a try but I'm already pushing it in my room with the 40 actives.

RJ

As others have suggested, I think it would be sensible to spend part of your research time auditioning a pair of 802 D3's.  I bought a pair earlier this year and have been very impressed with them.  I'm not sure that they manage to look as good as the previous version (OK they don't!!), but they do sound tip top.

Peter

northpole posted:

RJ

As others have suggested, I think it would be sensible to spend part of your research time auditioning a pair of 802 D3's.  I bought a pair earlier this year and have been very impressed with them.  I'm not sure that they manage to look as good as the previous version (OK they don't!!), but they do sound tip top.

Peter

Thanks for your thoughts Northpole.  I had a listen to the D3s at my dealer's shop in Chester when they first launched and have to say I was not overenthusiastic about what I heard  (a little akin to my reaction to passive ATC100s in fact).  But that was then and by now his demo D3s will be well run in so maybe another listen to them will be in order.

I'm sitting here waiting for these passive 100s to be converted to active... I have an expectation based on what I heard in the shop the other week; if they fall short of this high expectation, I'll follow through with your suggestion NP and listen again to the D3s.

802 D3 better looking than 802 D2? Mmmm.... bit like saying Beavis is better looking than Butthead, or Ren more attractive than Stimpy!! Apologies to all B & W fans. I'm sure they sound great, and I know beauty is in the eye of the beholder etc., but.....

All daleks look alike to humans until you really get to know them. The converse probably applies...

Same goes for penguins.

Halloween Man posted:

rjstaines posted:

and to Halloween Man  I couldn't see where you are, but if it's anywhere in the UK, I'm sure ATC would be very happy to pop around to your place with this very same pair of 100's that I currently have on loan (in either active or passive mode - the change takes about 30 mins, I'm told).

 

 

I'm sure you're right, in my experience ATC customer service is spectacularly good. I'd love to give bigger speakers a try but I'm already pushing it in my room with the 40 actives.

HM  , not to divert the topic but what size is your room please ? 

About 4m X 4.3m, typical English Edwardian living room, chimney breast, bay window, and suspended timber floor. Strangely, I find the speakers sound best firing down the short width of the room, either side of the chimney breast, rather than down the long length.

The 19 was a better match room wise (less bass) but I just could not live without the sound of the 40 after comparing. The 40 is a masterpiece.

Halloween Man posted:

About 4m X 4.3m, typical English Edwardian living room, chimney breast, bay window, and suspended timber floor. Strangely, I find the speakers sound best firing down the short width of the room, either side of the chimney breast, rather than down the long length.

The 19 was a better match room wise (less bass) but I just could not live without the sound of the 40 after comparing. The 40 is a masterpiece.

Thanks, my room was very similar but after knocking through and extending its now over 10m Long . Could help in the bass department. 

If only you could have seen the look on swmbo's face once I'd suggested this 

How are you getting on Roger?

Halloween Man posted:

If only you could have seen the look on swmbo's face once I'd suggested this 

How are you getting on Roger?

 

SCM100s changed to active late afternoon then I had to go out to a meeting all evening.  Very brief first impressions were 'Yes, that's what I was hearing in my dealers!', so looking forward to some serious listening over the next couple of days as the active amps warm up   

Unfortunately I can't report SWMBO's impressions, I'd get thrown off the forum... and she hasn't actually listened to them,  just doesn't like the shape & size, I guess.  I'm fearing this could turn into a 'wife or speakers' decision,  but let's not preempt the outcome before I've had a proper chance to listen to the speakers.

Hmmm - wife or speakers...  I bet you'll miss her, though.

.....don't you mean "proper chance to listen to the wife"!!.....

Remind her of what she says to you: size (and shape) aren't important, its what they do that matters.

Otherwise if the SCMs are indeed the ones you prefer, get a photo of the 802s printed on an open weave fabric and throw over the SCMs.