ATC SCM100 vs B&W 802 D2

Innocent Bystander posted:

The SCM100SE might be a bit more domesticaaly acceptable than the plain version (see ATC website): it has (slightly) curved sides, is a vailable in a range of veneers, and has some other trim detail - all presumably at a cost.

Still dog ugly - makes the B & Ws look almost attractive!

The Classic series look the best by a mile IMO . 

Brief update...

Well, persistance and bribery have paid off, although I suspect that Christmas has grabbed SWMBO's attention and edged those 'ugly speakers' (SCM100's) down her priority list.  Nonetheless, the words "I suppose you're going to get them anyway." were, I thought, about as close as I was going to get to an acceptance.  So I've placed a pair of the classic (stand mount) SCM100 active speakers on order - should be a January delivery.  

Meanwhile I've borrowed the tower active 100's which she hates so much, I've packed up the B&W 802 D2's and the NAP500 and sent them to my dealer who has put them on the bay... so the point of no return is past.  I'm going to drape a few strands of Christmas decoration over the offending speakers in the hope that 'out of sight, out of mind' might happen.

Oh, I mentioned bribery... the initial offer was a new tennis bat at £1,500,  but she's decided that the kind of tennis bat that Andy Murray might play with is probably not for her, so she's settled for a wad of cash instead, so the overall cost of ATC SCM100's has risen by £1,000.  ...she should be on the Brexit negotiating team.

Roger

I use ATC SCM150ASLTs in a room 18' x 11'6". Love'em. The room FILLS with sound, needless to say.

rjstaines posted:

Brief update...

Well, persistance and bribery have paid off, although I suspect that Christmas has grabbed SWMBO's attention and edged those 'ugly speakers' (SCM100's) down her priority list.  Nonetheless, the words "I suppose you're going to get them anyway." were, I thought, about as close as I was going to get to an acceptance.  So I've placed a pair of the classic (stand mount) SCM100 active speakers on order - should be a January delivery.  

Meanwhile I've borrowed the tower active 100's which she hates so much, I've packed up the B&W 802 D2's and the NAP500 and sent them to my dealer who has put them on the bay... so the point of no return is past.  I'm going to drape a few strands of Christmas decoration over the offending speakers in the hope that 'out of sight, out of mind' might happen.

Oh, I mentioned bribery... the initial offer was a new tennis bat at £1,500,  but she's decided that the kind of tennis bat that Andy Murray might play with is probably not for her, so she's settled for a wad of cash instead, so the overall cost of ATC SCM100's has risen by £1,000.  ...she should be on the Brexit negotiating team.

Roger

Sounds like a great outcome! However I'm curious, why the tower is perceived to be better than the stand mount in appearance - or is that your choice based on sound?

vintageaxeman posted:

I use ATC SCM150ASLTs in a room 18' x 11'6". Love'em. The room FILLS with sound, needless to say.

Some people would say that's too much speaker for the size of room... but I guess not!

Glad you're getting them. But I agree with Bystander too...mine are the towers, and I really think they are much smarter than the classics...but your choice....(by the skin of your teeth!!!)

Congratulations Roger, enjoy! What finish did you choose?

Hope you enjoy your new purchase, Roger.  Looking forward to updates and pictures when they arrive.

M 

To answer the above questions:

Although I've been auditioning the towers, I've selected the 'classic' standmounts (in Cherry, HalloweenMan, to match the furniture) because there's less face on 'bulk' of speaker when they're sitting there in front of you, and also they're a few centimeters less tall, and a few hundred pounds less expensive  (£1600ish).  I've not actually heard the stand mount version I have to say, but I'm assured by my dealer that they sound the same, if not even slightly more 'airy'. (from the little sales training I've had, I suspect this is 'customer reassurance'.. 'you've made the right choice').   Photos to follow after Christmas 

Congrats on the new speakers....

which cables are you using from the 552 to the ATC actives?

My dealer is bringing some passive 40s around tonight and taking back the Sonus faber Guerneri Tradition he has leant me. Must say the idea of going active and getting rid of two 500 boxes, SL speaker cable and Chord pre/power inter-connects does sound tempting. Certainly saves a lot of money and perhaps I could hear previously obscured misery from the Smiths.

Last Thursday there was an event in Oxford when the ATC passive 100s were being used on the end of a vinyl playing system in the Sheldonian theatre. Talked with the ATC rep about their designs. Emphasis is on sound quality rather than fantastic looks. Apparently they have a work force of around 40.

it does look very tempting.

What happens though to the Naim timing and rhythmic ability - much of which is down to Naim never using parallel transistors on the power amplifier as no 2 transistors are the same and one will always consume more power than the other. (well Naim broke their own rules for the statement power amp, but they use transistors from the same silicon substrate to avoid this problem). Previously I read this was because of no feedback, but now the steve sells interview on tom tom website gives new insight.

Per Steve Sells :

"Naim has always said you can’t have parallel output transistors in an amp because no two transistors are the same and one tends to hog the current. To make something that has twice the dynamic headroom as the NAP 500, that’s where we get the power from, it has to have lots of transistors to stop it blowing up. We are able to use parallel devices in Statement because we take a single slice of silicon and use adjacent dies cut from that disc, we don’t need to match them because they are made from the same substrate"

I know for sure some of this is down to the very specific cables that Naim uses, so I guess there would be some expense on a Chord or Naim cable from the 552 to the XLR inputs of the ATC?

How does it work though, since the outputs of the 552 aren't supposed to drive long lengths of cable?

But then the rebuttal was always, well it's the same as when active SNAXO are used, if long cables are acceptable there, then why not on the 552?

Hi Ghettoyout

I hope you like the 40s, let us know ......  I found they can be placed quite close to the back walls, need a slight toe in
The 50s, 100s have a less domestic look about them, but they work very well


if you do a search you against my name you will see that in Oct 16, I went to listen to passive 40s powered by 250DR (which I was using at the time),  then a 300DR, and then the actives 40s. all fronted by N272/555DR

Wife like the look of them in Satin Black so I ordered pair of 40A few days later, they arrived around 6 weeks after.  By which time I had sold my existing 250DR, speakers and cables TQ-UB.  In effect it was a no cost upgrade, if you are moving on 2x500 plus cables that would a bigger impact.

Also its meant my nominal stand budget stretched to Quadraspire x-reference as I don''t need as many shelves...wife not keen on the look of the Fraim I bought but she likes the X-ref

Hang on ...

Roger 

What ?

Hold off on the purchase of those ATC's

Why ?

Analog's found something on the internet. Thinks that your timing may suffer. He's not sure but it's got something to do with Power transistors and cables. 

Really ?

Yeah. Only Naim can do PR&T. 

Really ? - I auditioned the ATC's in my system and really liked them. That's why i've bought them.

Doesn't matter. Some chap on the internet is worried. 

Shit - my old kit is already on Ebay....

Enjoy your new speakers Roger - Those ATC's look fun 

ok then James let's all sell our Naim Nap's and go active.

Yoo-hoo Yippe Kai ay,

it's a valid question innit.

Cuz I tried active with Naim preamp and Dynaudio active speakers, and soon came back to a Naim NAP with passive. At that time I didn't factor in having proper Naim DIN/XLR cables though. Maybe I would have stayed had I got that right.

Just curious.... isn't everyone? The holy grail of Naim is a fully active Naim system !

But  can a Naim preamp with ATC active speaker save money AND sound better.

Why not????

I've done enough experiments to know the Naim sound depends on a number of Naim engineered factors, change one and it's not the same, and this is a BIG BIG change.

But why not, if it works, it works... it's all about the music.

Brilliant news Roger and my 2 penneth is that the Classics on Stands look much better. Sounds like it’s going to be a very happy new year!! 

Enjoy the Music . 

Ghettoyout posted:

Certainly saves a lot of money and perhaps I could hear previously obscured misery from the Smiths.

Finally, a good argument for active ATCs.

Perhaps I should have tried some before dropping £12,000 on a 300 and SL speaker wires and XLRs, especially with a potential misery enhancement. Too late now but it would be interesting to try one of these days. 

Yes, as a package ATCs actives seem remarkably good VFM, as well as, erm, compact (if you can call rather large speakers compact).

The trouble with my experimentation with active is that it will involve either a stack of 3 stereo amps somewhere, or potentially a pair (1 stereo and 1 mono)  exude each speaker, all more bulky and costly than true active speakers because the amps are designed for independent use. 

The ATC manual for the SCM20ASLT states that one should start with the speakers 2m from the wall, which would rather rule them out. 15cm is about all I could manage. I’d imagine this would give far too much bass. 

Jolly well done Roger! ATCs are great speakers (I have a pair of their 15" bass drivers in my DBLs), & going active is always a very good idea. I'm sure you'll have many years of enjoyment from them.

analogmusic posted:

ok then James let's all sell our Naim Nap's and go active.

Yoo-hoo Yippe Kai ay,

it's a valid question innit.

Cuz I tried active with Naim preamp and Dynaudio active speakers, and soon came back to a Naim NAP with passive. At that time I didn't factor in having proper Naim DIN/XLR cables though. Maybe I would have stayed had I got that right.

Just curious.... isn't everyone? The holy grail of Naim is a fully active Naim system !

But  can a Naim preamp with ATC active speaker save money AND sound better.

Why not????

I've done enough experiments to know the Naim sound depends on a number of Naim engineered factors, change one and it's not the same, and this is a BIG BIG change.

But why not, if it works, it works... it's all about the music.

Innocent Bystander posted:

Yes, as a package ATCs actives seem remarkably good VFM, as well as, erm, compact (if you can call rather large speakers compact).

The trouble with my experimentation with active is that it will involve either a stack of 3 stereo amps somewhere, or potentially a pair (1 stereo and 1 mono)  exude each speaker, all more bulky and costly than true active speakers because the amps are designed for independent use. 

Except that ATC actives include the power amps, mounted on the rear....

so theoretically could the ATC amps be replaced by naim amps and a snaxo ??

lyndon

I would imagine that the crossover frequencies would be wrong, plus the Naim amps, AIUI, need a minimum length of speaker cable to work properly.