Is it worth refurbishing a 1990s LP12 or should I start again or give up?

One advantage of the old fruit box is that it can be brought up to present specification by your local dealer. I would take it to be assessed and serviced there. 

G. Warminger posted:

One advantage of the old fruit box is that it can be brought up to present specification by your local dealer. I would take it to be assessed and serviced there. 

Indeed - the LP12 is like Trigger's broom - in principle you can bring it up to 2017 Klimax spec if you're so minded. The question is what makes sense in the context of exactly what you're trying to achieve. Best thing is to take your treasured vinyl down to a good Linn dealer (they usually stock Naim too) and see what they sound like on various LP12 specs.  I believe (others may correct me) that a 1990 will have the Cirkus bearing - which was one of the major upgrades to the spec - so it may be a question of paying for the TT to be set up and perhaps a new cartridge.

I'm still using a 1990 purchased LP12 to satisfy my vinyl addiction and have even managed to  resist many of the 'must have' upgrades apart from  a decent arm and, more recently, a decent cartridge.

Even in this fairly basic format it can hold its own against some of the best digital has to offer. So, in short, I'd say go ahead. Just get it set up by someone who knows how an LP12 works, and I expect this maybe your biggest challenge, as there aren't that many out there!

I'd perhaps see what other arms may be available as this is where a lot of development has gone on. A simple AT95 cartridge in a good arm and in a well set up LP12  will trounce most of the competition.

If you have a Flatcap and only use one connection the Stageline is a great phono stage. I still buy vinyl, went to a garage sale the other day and picked up 40+ LPs for £30.  

Audio Origami for the arm, they’ve been making an arm based on the PU2 for yoers and are also known for refurbishing arms too, not just syrinx.

my LP12 is from the lates 1980's - cost £600 from a very well known LP12 specialist in L'ster

serviced, new motor, plynth, cartridge - result is supberb

get deck to a dealer to help and go from there would be my advise

ermine posted:

Is there still the dilemma between poorer tracking performance but greater transparency with MC cartridges relative to MM....

Not in my (admittedly limited) experience of MCs.

Best advice is visit a good dealer.

To add to Chris' post above, you say you have an A-T MC cartridge - these have traditionally been excellent trackers.  Indeed, the current AT OC9MLII has one of the best tracking performances of any cartridge and its ability to retrieve information from inner grooves without distortion is difficult, if not impossible to better.  Incidentally this is a great match with the earlier LP12 as it's slightly lean just where the old Sondek is a bit warm and "fat".  However, for your PU2 the AT-F7 may well be a better bet, as it's lighter and I think you can get away without the mass ring, which is always a good thing to avoid!  Whichever AT you have, get it checked, it may still be OK for the time being, but if not, current AT carts like the AT-F7 and OC9 MLII are excellent for the money 

The PU2 is excellent.  I have one, and last I heard that Syrinx's chief engineer, Ian McCutcheon was able service and rewire them if need be. Admittedly that was almost 10 years ago, so worth researching... 

Thank you everyone - I am pretty flabbergasted that a 25 y/o piece of kit is still serviceable at all, nevermind being potentially a worthwhile starting point. The cartridge probably doesn't owe me anything, I'd run it for several years. I was heartened to see the prices on the ATF7 and OC9 - from an initial browse I'd seen prices on vinyl kit that were way out of my range

I used to use Signals in Ipswich, but I've moved closer to the Bristol area now so they are a very long way away. Any recommends in the Dorset/Somerset region, preferably not in Bristol - I've only ever driven into the city centre once and don't really want to repeat the experience. Is rebuilding/overhaul a specialist activity or can any Linn dealer do that well?

I hear what you say about Bristol but Audio T in Park Street are good with LP12s - they Cirkused and Lingoed mine to good effect. They've not much idea about streaming IMHO so I use another dealer for that side of things.

Re the traffic, after living in the middle of Bristol for over 30 years I've now moved out to North Somerset - I use Long Ashton Park and Ride to good effect. The buses are very frequent and there is a stop within walking distance of the shop if you can manage the hill. 

Park and ride bus not very convenient for carrying a boxed LP12 to and fro!

G. Warminger posted:

Park and ride bus not very convenient for carrying a boxed LP12 to and fro!

Not convenient but I've done it more than once. Main thing is to make sure that you have the original packing and take the heavy bits off and secure the movable bits. If it's too heavy or bulky for you then a taxi would work and only be about a tenner.

Alternatively, although I've not used them myself, I believe Audience in Bath sells and services LP12s. You can park in the small car park right behind the shop if you're lucky enough to find a space.

You and your good lady have some vinyl you would like to play.  The LP12 is serviceable.    Get it done and enjoy the ride.  

Regards,

Lindsay

My LP12 dates back to 1990, it sounds good to me. Give yours some TLC and it will reward you. 

In April I went through the same thoughts as the OP.

A late '80s LP12 with Ittok LVlll, that was Cirkus'd in the mid nineties, had been stored in the loft for seven years. I was thinking that turntable technology must have moved on a bit and the ideal of a plonk and play alternative was appealing so I had a listen to a Clearaudio and compared it to an akurate level LP12. They were different but I couldn't decide which was better.

For roughly the same amount of money as a new, and lovely engineered, Clearaudio, I got my LP12 Kore'd, Trampolin'd, T-Kable'd and serviced and bought the Uphorik phono stage to go with it.

s.

Everyone seems in favour of upgrading & servicing a 1990's deck, but I didn't. I did what you're considering Ermine, I sold my old deck and bought a brand new up-to-date-spec one.   My old one was never circus'd, the last upgrade was the Trampolin, so it was well out of date spec wise.  I did the upgrade price sums and concluded a new one would provide the peace of mind I was looking for, together with the performance I'd heard at one of those Linn dem evenings.

If you decide the same then the model you opt for will be the one that 'lights your candle' - the good news is that you'll know you have the most up-to-date spec to move forward from; the other good news is that you'll have the deck that will give you the most enjoyment from your (expanding?) vinyl collection 

my LP12 also dates back to the 90's...

enjoy

ken

Chris Dolan posted:

My LP12 dates back to 1990, it sounds good to me. Give yours some TLC and it will reward you. 

That must be the hinges, Chris!

I have just done pretty much what you are contemplating.  A couple of months back, a mate down the pub (I kid you not!) mentioned he had a TT in his loft which had been there for at least ten years; turned out to be a 1986 LP12 with a Mk1Lingo, black Ittok LVII and Troika.  He was pleased that I intended to restore it to working condition so sold it to me at a ridiculously low price.

It now has Kore, Cirkus, Tramp 2, new T-Kable and a Krystal.  I stripped the rather tatty black Ash plinth back to bare wood - which revealed a lovely grain - so I applied three coats of Danish Oil to really lift it; I think it looks amazing.  I also restored the lid to 'as new' condition using a headlight polishing kit from Halfords.  The Lingo was serviced and had the in-line filter removed at the same time so it wouldn't upset the rest of my system.

Whilst not at 'new' Akurate level, it isn't far off and cost me only half as much as buying a new one would have.

Of course, all this would be pointless if it didn't sound any good; suffice to say, it gives my NDS with 2 x 555PS a damn good run for its money and I have barely listened to digital since getting the LP12 up and running.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

Cheers,

Ian

G. Warminger posted:

Park and ride bus not very convenient for carrying a boxed LP12 to and fro!

I once schlepped my newly repaired Rega Planet from the store up to my place in Clifton Village on the back of my bike!

ermine posted:

Thank you everyone - I am pretty flabbergasted that a 25 y/o piece of kit is still serviceable at all, nevermind being potentially a worthwhile starting point.

Well, well, well - fancy meeting you here and welcome to the forum. I see that you're no longer simply living in Suffolk then. And me ? I've followed your blog from the early days and most recently commented on your 18th April post (as "Col)".

Anyway, back on topic. I recently came across a 40+ year old Thorens TD160 that had been stored (and forgotten about) in my mother-in-laws loft. I was similarly amazed when the thing worked ok when switched on for the first time. After a bit of advice on this forum and a few new bits (cartridge, belt etc) it's now working fine as part of a 2nd system, and I'm currently using it to transfer all my LP's to digital. More details here

https://forums.naimaudio.com/topic/a-nice-find

My main system deck is a circa 1990 LP12 (Lingo I) and apart from minor services it's still playing as fine as it ever did. I've never been one for tinkering and don't have upgraditis although I'm not saying I won't at some point. If you have no means of connecting the LP12 and want to listen to it before you decide what to do, or if you just want to transfer "the album" then let me know. I don't think we're too far apart, geographically speaking.

PS. I share you feelings about the traffic in Bristol. I was recently made redundant after telling my company that I wasn't prepared to commute to the city after my role was relocated there.

Thanks for the ideas -  I hauled the deck out of the garage, and it's a lot older and tattier than I recall it

The box seems to indicate it was new in March 1989

The arm and cartridge are newer than the deck

but the whole lot looks much the worse for the intervening years, the grime got well in there though the flash does make it look worse

I'm considering Audience in Bath rather than yomping this big box on a bus in Bristol, although in some ways Ceritech would be easier to drive to though further way.

It's a tough one, if I were starting anew I wouldn't go with the finicky LP12. I'm definitely towards the Majik end rather But it appears I have some sunk capital in this, so it may indirectly save me money. I don't expect to be a big vinyl user, and Mrs Ermine isn't overly critical, though she does hear when things are done better. She probably has more records than I - I purged most of my collection many years ago, retaining a few boxes of old favourites more for sentimental reasons and those lovely big sleeves and artwork.

Redmires posted:

 

After a bit of advice on this forum and a few new bits (cartridge, belt etc) it's now working fine as part of a 2nd system, and I'm currently using it to transfer all my LP's to digital. More details here

https://forums.naimaudio.com/topic/a-nice-find

I'm intrigued that you're using a secondary system to transfer your LPs to digital, rather than your main system? Although I do recall the right pain it was to rig my old 486PC on a coffee table and patch it into my hifi, so maybe that's the reason. I have a decent recorder through an interest in wildlife sound recording so it's portable, but at line level many of the more recent portable SD card recorders perform very well.

ermine posted:

Thanks for the ideas -  I hauled the deck out of the garage, and it's a lot older and tattier than I recall it

The box seems to indicate it was new in March 1989

The arm and cartridge are newer than the deck

 

but the whole lot looks much the worse for the intervening years, the grime got well in there though the flash does make it look worse

I'm considering Audience in Bath rather than yomping this big box on a bus in Bristol, although in some ways Ceritech would be easier to drive to though further way.

It's a tough one, if I were starting anew I wouldn't go with the finicky LP12. I'm definitely towards the Majik end rather But it appears I have some sunk capital in this, so it may indirectly save me money. I don't expect to be a big vinyl user, and Mrs Ermine isn't overly critical, though she does hear when things are done better. She probably has more records than I - I purged most of my collection many years ago, retaining a few boxes of old favourites more for sentimental reasons and those lovely big sleeves and artwork.

Ermine I'm afraid you're perpetuating a common hifi myth - when the LP12 has been properly set up by a competent person, and it is taken to and from the dealer in the recommended manner, it is not, in my experience (as an owner for almost 30 years)  "finicky" . The springs, bounce and set up will remain stable at the very least until you need to take it back for a cartridge replacement.