Cables, Cables and Cables...

Thanks Huge, I now see my error! I looked up w3160, not w3106! 3106 make much more sense!

I believe we meen the same thing with regards to the rca-din soldering. Rca end, one lead solder to signal the other plus screen to rca “return/screen”. Din end, signals to left and right pins and other leads both to the common “earth” pin. Do you connect the screens to the din “case” or no contact at all? (Sorry, I realize I mess up the correct nomenclature regarding earth, return etc.)

How would you connect the screen in the case of a din-xlr?

Theory states that the screen should be connected to the 0V line at the end of the cable closest to where the 0V line is connected to the mains earth.

For your system the 0V line is connected to earth by the CDS3.

(In the case of the CDS3 the screen is connected at both ends as both cores are used to carry signal and the screen carries the 0V connection.)

In the case of the Linn Ulrika, the nearest end of the cable to the CDS3 is the DIN 5 on the 252.  So theory suggests that the screen should be connected to the 0V pin in the DIN 5 plug and left unconnected at the phono end (but in practice sometimes it's better the other way, theory is a good guide, but it isn't always right in practice!)

In the case of the DIN4 to XLR the screen is connected at the DIN 4 end only (this is how I have wired mine for my 272 to 300DR cables and this does work well in practice!).

Hi Huge

I don't have your technical soldering skills so wonder if you can recommend a uk supplier of their cables - I am interested in a Din-XLR to see if improves  the standard Naim lead that came with my 250DR (connected to a Nova)

Thanks 

Bob

Hi Bob,

(Shropshire Hills - Beautiful area of the country, btw are you south or borderlands?  Both have great beauty.)

Sorry, as I can make up my own cables...  I know who can supply parts; but I don't have much need for someone who can assemble the cables! 

Oh well thanks anyway perhaps somebody else will chime up our maybe your supplier knows someone?

We live near Ludlow and great countryside along the Shropshire/Welsh borders and down into Herefordshire and across to Powys. Plenty of good local music - latest "discovery" was seeing Little Rumba playing in a  tiny barn studio on a farm nearby - 5 musicians and max capacity of 40 in the audience had a wonderful night washed down with our local Hobsons Beer and Oldfields Cider - a couple of great videos on their website -  littlerumba.com

The din to XLR from Witch Hat is very good, for about £120. I think it’s called the Hatpin. I used one when I first had my 272/250. 

Hi Nigel

Thanks for the info - I did wonder about Witch Hat. The 250DR is bringing a noticeable improvement to my Nova and i am very contented with the sound for now. Next step is better speakers and then wait until Naim brings the new streaming platform to an updated 272.

The new naim interconnect that came with the 250DR sounds good and is probably run in by now. i did try another Din-XLR I had had made up to link my CB250 to the Nova but the Naim one is definitely better. I can only imagine how your current system now sounds and perhaps you will let me have another listen next time I am "down your way"

Bob

Shropshire Hills posted:

Hi Nigel

Thanks for the info - I did wonder about Witch Hat. The 250DR is bringing a noticeable improvement to my Nova and i am very contented with the sound for now. Next step is better speakers and then wait until Naim brings the new streaming platform to an updated 272.

The new naim interconnect that came with the 250DR sounds good and is probably run in by now. i did try another Din-XLR I had had made up to link my CB250 to the Nova but the Naim one is definitely better. I can only imagine how your current system now sounds and perhaps you will let me have another listen next time I am "down your way"

Bob

 

Another vote here for the ‘Hatpin’ between 272-250DR.

G

Cheers Graeme

Hungryhalibut posted:

The din to XLR from Witch Hat is very good, for about £120. I think it’s called the Hatpin. I used one when I first had my 272/250. 

+1 for Witch Hat, which made a significant improvement between my 250DR and 252.

Having tried various alternatives to Naim stock cables over the years including those from Flashback and Witchhat, I've always returned to the Naim cables as they just seem to sound right. 

I've found that alternatives may offer more detail, quieter background or more bass slam which can sound initially impressive but at the expense of a level of engagement you get with the Naim cables.

The exception is the Chord tuned aray cables which seem to offer a greater degree of emotional connection, but at a price.

Huge, do you know what the pin orientation is for the xlr-3pin din is, as im tempted to try our some different cables I have spare to the standard between my 272-250.2

Jonathan

It's shown in the NAP250 manuals and connection manual.

They show the pin-outs better than I can describe them!

ok great thanks, I shall take a look

WitchHat DIN-XLR didn’t really work for my ears. It was different to, but I didn’t feel an improvement over stock Cable. However, as you see from above, plenty of owners have found it a worthwhile improvement and the beauty of the deal is that you can buy the cable, try it in your system and if it doesn’t work for you, return it within 30 days to the nice folk at WitchHat who will then refund you, no questions asked. Worth trying therefore. 

Thats very helpful thanks and thanks also to to Nigel, Graeme and Join for your advice. I think the 30 gay trial approach may be worthwhile 

Bob

Huge, can I pick your brain with one more of my questions?

I was thinking that case and signal ground might not be the same in the naim amp. Would it not than make sense to connect the screen to the din contact housing, i.e. case ground, and signal ground to the pin? Obviously, not the din-din but possible for rca-din and din-xlr, what do you think?

Indeed, the case and signal 0V are not the same in Naim amps.

That's why for the signal reference voltage I use the 0V designation (rather than using the term 'ground').  I reserve the term 'ground' for things directly connected to the mains protective earth (i.e. the cases).  In a Naim system the connection between '0V' and 'ground' is in the source components (in your case the CDS3).

In any case, you certainly don't want to connect anything to the DIN or XLR shell at both ends, as that will create an earth loop.

I haven't modelled the effect of connecting the screen to the DIN / XLR shell only and connecting the '0V' line to the '0V' pin at each end.  The actual effect of this may well depend on the precise circuit at each end, and could even depend on circuit layout - it may be better or it may be worse.  However in that configuration, the electrical parameters of the cable are a little further away from electrical parameters of the stock cables.

In short, I just don't know what the effect will be (however it's most unlikely to be harmful, so you can try it if you like!). 

Thanks, I hope to have some parts and start experimenting by the weekend. I assume the cable should be oriented with text in the same direction as the signal, correct?

Thanks again for your support!

Hmm...  Well that's prevailing conjecture.

However the more rigorous hypothesis is that the signal should flow in the direction in which the cable was drawn.  Buy, there's no reason why the lettering should be printed in that direction during manufacturer, and not only that but the signal is AC and the current flows back and forth in the cable; so, who knows!

Hopefully this week I should also be conducting some experiments for the DIN to XLR connection from the 272 to the 300DR.
A)  Mogami W2549 (existing cable)
B)  Klotz MC5000
C)  Mogami W2497

thanks for the info Huge, I managed to get round to trialling some cable I had lying round at the weekend. I had some tinned wired which worked well previously, Duelund DCA20GA although it sounded good, when I switched back to the lavender xlr-din there was an obvious difference but not major but enough so I shall keep the standard cable. I will be interested in your mogami findings

Here are the results...

https://forums.naimaudio.com/to...-272-to-300dr?page=1

Previously I used DIN5 - DIN5 interconnects between an ND5XS and a Nait XS 2.
I compared the 'Lavender' to Mogami 2534 (pseudo-balanced) and Mogami 2549 (unbalanced);

My results for this can be found part-way down the first page of this thread...
https://forums.naimaudio.com/to...nterconnects-inc-diy