New Turntable

Eoink posted:

Stevee_S posted:

Clive B posted:

Clemenza posted:

Just reading with interest. I'd looove to get back into vinyl. You know what I miss? Listening to an album in its entirety.

There's nothing to stop you listening to an album all the way through when playing from a digital source. I haven't lost that habit. I scarcely ever play odd tracks and don't have any playlists either on my NDS or iPhone. 

I agree with you totally Clive, I always prefer listening to albums in their entirety for a whole variety of reasons, streaming never changed that habit, strangely it probably reinforced it. 

Me too, if anything vinyl is the medium where I’m most likely to only play half an album, that moment when the first side makes you think of something else and you change album instead of turning over. But pretty much every time I play the album through on all media.

I'm struggling here: I almost never do anything other than listen to albums in their entirety  (maybe its the type of music I like) - and streaming from my own store makes it oh so easy, whether a single, double or even triple album - continuous play without interruption unless I choose to pause, so much easiervthan vinyl (I could go into the quality of sound, but won't)

That’s like me; only very rarely do I play odd tracks. 

Just the even ones then, Nigel 

That reminds me of a little joke. I got an odd job man round recently, and gave him a list of eight jobs to do while I was out. When I got back I discovered that he’d only done jobs one, three, five and seven...

Hungryhalibut posted:

That reminds me of a little joke. I got an odd job man round recently, and gave him a list of eight jobs to do while I was out. When I got back I discovered that he’d only done jobs one, three, five and seven...

That's better than many of the jokes appearing on the 'Best jokes' thread.

I'm currently in the process of buying a turntable and had always fancied a Gyrodec. I also wanted to avoid the LP12 because it seems so ubiquitous and endlessly expensive with all the upgrades. I was looking to spend about £3k to £3.5k. The other candidate after much reading of reviews was the Rega RP10 with Apheta 2. 

So I eventually found a dealer who had both the Rega and the Michell and off I trotted with my motley collection of rock and heavy metal to demo them. I have a 250/282/HC combo with Dali Rubikon 6s which chuck out a meaty dose of rock. The dealer used a slightly lesser Naim amp combo and some PMCs at around the same £3k level as the Rubikons. In the shop I really liked both turntables. I preferred the Gyrodec at the time as it was definitely a warmer sound albeit not as detailed as the RP10. The Gyrodec used the same Apheta 2 cartridge. 

However, I didn't like the sound of the PMCs so arranged a home demo. Both decks sounded quite a bit different on my system. The Gyro was again a lovely warm foot tapping sound with a big sound stage and did a great job with a live album I put on. However, putting on a much more "technical" song on such as Rush's Power Windows saw the RP10 shine. Amazing detail and distinctly better than the CD version which I also have. The Gyro was definitely better with the live album but the RP10 was clearly better with studio material. We then put a Rega phono stage on (I only had a cheapo NAD stage) and both the dealer and I were both blown away with how good it was. At that point my mind was made up. 

Subsequently to all this I made the unfortunate decision to discuss it all with my best friend who has a highly upgraded LP12. He claimed I'd be mad to not at least listen to one before making a purchase. I'd only be looking at a Majik so the bottom of Linn's range compared to near the top of Rega's. But in the end I agreed so I am going to home demo the Majik against the RP10/Apheta 2. I can't see how it's going to be better but I will go into it with an open mind. 

The one thing to say overall though is how genuinely brilliant the sound of vinyl is on a good system. Just fantastic. So I am looking forward very much to hearing what this iconic LP12 can do. I will report back after the demo as to my final decision. 

andykram posted:

So I eventually found a dealer who had both the Rega and the Michell and off I trotted with my motley collection of rock and heavy metal to demo them. I have a 250/282/HC combo with Dali Rubikon 6s which chuck out a meaty dose of rock. The dealer used a slightly lesser Naim amp combo and some PMCs at around the same £3k level as the Rubikons. In the shop I really liked both turntables. I preferred the Gyrodec The Gyro was again a lovely warm foot tapping sound with a big sound stage and did a great job with a live album I put on. However, putting on a much more "technical" song on such as Rush's Power Windows saw the RP10 shine. Amazing detail and distinctly better than the CD version which I also have. The Gyro was definitely better with the live album but the RP10 was clearly better with studio material. We then put a Rega phono stage on (I only had a cheapo NAD stage) and both the dealer and I were both blown away with how good it was. At that point my mind was made up. 

Subsequently to all this I made the unfortunate decision to discuss it all with my best friend who has a highly upgraded LP12. He claimed I'd be mad to not at least listen to one before making a purchase. I'd only be looking at a Majik so the bottom of Linn's range compared to near the top of Rega's. But in the end I agreed so I am going to home demo the Majik against the RP10/Apheta 2. I can't see how it's going to be better but I will go into it with an open mind. 

The one thing to say overall though is how genuinely brilliant the sound of vinyl is on a good system. Just fantastic. So I am looking forward very much to hearing what this iconic LP12 can do. I will report back after the demo as to my final decision. 

Yes the Gyro has a massive soundstage.   

Andykram,

Which Rega phono stage was it?

Ray

andykram posted:

I'm currently in the process of buying a turntable and had always fancied a Gyrodec. I also wanted to avoid the LP12 because it seems so ubiquitous and endlessly expensive with all the upgrades. I was looking to spend about £3k to £3.5k. The other candidate after much reading of reviews was the Rega RP10 with Apheta 2. 

So I eventually found a dealer who had both the Rega and the Michell and off I trotted with my motley collection of rock and heavy metal to demo them. I have a 250/282/HC combo with Dali Rubikon 6s which chuck out a meaty dose of rock. The dealer used a slightly lesser Naim amp combo and some PMCs at around the same £3k level as the Rubikons. In the shop I really liked both turntables. I preferred the Gyrodec at the time as it was definitely a warmer sound albeit not as detailed as the RP10. The Gyrodec used the same Apheta 2 cartridge. 

However, I didn't like the sound of the PMCs so arranged a home demo. Both decks sounded quite a bit different on my system. The Gyro was again a lovely warm foot tapping sound with a big sound stage and did a great job with a live album I put on. However, putting on a much more "technical" song on such as Rush's Power Windows saw the RP10 shine. Amazing detail and distinctly better than the CD version which I also have. The Gyro was definitely better with the live album but the RP10 was clearly better with studio material. We then put a Rega phono stage on (I only had a cheapo NAD stage) and both the dealer and I were both blown away with how good it was. At that point my mind was made up. 

Subsequently to all this I made the unfortunate decision to discuss it all with my best friend who has a highly upgraded LP12. He claimed I'd be mad to not at least listen to one before making a purchase. I'd only be looking at a Majik so the bottom of Linn's range compared to near the top of Rega's. But in the end I agreed so I am going to home demo the Majik against the RP10/Apheta 2. I can't see how it's going to be better but I will go into it with an open mind. 

The one thing to say overall though is how genuinely brilliant the sound of vinyl is on a good system. Just fantastic. So I am looking forward very much to hearing what this iconic LP12 can do. I will report back after the demo as to my final decision. 

Thanks for sharing. I, too, am in the process of acquiring a new turntable for my home office system (to replace my Rega P3 w/Ortofon 2m Black, connected to an MM Rega phono stage playing into a Nait 5si hooked up to a pair of Audiovector S1 Super; as good as the P3 is, I want an even better turntable having also taken a serious dive back into vinyl).

I have discarded Rega (P8 or P10) for two reasons: 1) Personally, I don’t like the black high gloss finish; 2) I’ve unfortunately had too many issues with the Rega P3, including two replacements because of a noisy main bearing and three arm replacements, two because of too much play in the arm bearings and one because of a faulty soldering of a tonearm cable plug (resulting in massive hum). The Rega P3 however does sound excellent!

I’m currently looking to get an LP12, which for many years I’ve wanted. I went to audition an LP12 Akurate level (which is where I know I’ll end up anyway so might as well get there in one go!) but unfortunately there was an issue with the cartridge (we think it was) which prohibited any sensible audition of the Akurate LP12. What was interesting, however, was the comparison between a standard LP12 Majik against the Rega P6 Neo with TT-PSU and Ania cartridge – both playing through a Rega phono stage (MC obviously for the Ania and MM for the Adikt on the LP12). The P6 was more detailed, a little brighter (not necessarily in a bad way) but also “noisier” in that with the LP12 there was, quite clearly, more silence between the notes and an overall more composed, calmer if you will, rendition of the music (but not at the expense of dynamics). The P6’s enthusiastic, snappy sound is very appealing and I can really see why people like it, but my personal preference – with some margin – is for the LP12, even in its standard trim (just a shame Linn charges so much for the LP12, which in the Majik version doesn’t even have a Linn tonearm … ). An interesting thing here is that the Rega Ania cartridge is arguably better than the Linn Adikt, so putting an even better cartridge on the Linn would no doubt be very interesting and level the playing field at the cartridge level.

Like you I’ve been surprised to rediscover just how good the sound is from vinyl played on a good turntable system!

Phono Stage was just the Rega Fono MC at £249. It made a huge difference. 

Andykram...... how did you get on with the Linn LP12 Majik?

Have you consided the VPI Prime?

Well, I have now done the LP12 review with interesting results. The dealer brought the RP10 too with Fono MC stage which we listened to first as a sort of base line. As previously, I loved this turntable. Just a fantastic sound. 

Then to the LP12. A much warmer sound. Clearly not as detailed but I still liked it. I was sort of hoping it would be rubbish in comparison as that would have made my decision easier but now I have a dilemma. The LP12 with Trampoline and Hercules and a Rega Fono MM stage would be the same price as the RP10 with MC stage. 

My gut instinct is still the Rega. It is all the turntable I would ever need without the need for constant upgrades. However, I am going to ask the dealer if they have a second hand LP12 which he could service and add a better arm and cartridge to than the standard one on the  Majyk similar money. 

Will report back agin when he's done this. 

andykram posted:

Well, I have now done the LP12 review with interesting results. The dealer brought the RP10 too with Fono MC stage which we listened to first as a sort of base line. As previously, I loved this turntable. Just a fantastic sound. 

Then to the LP12. A much warmer sound. Clearly not as detailed but I still liked it. I was sort of hoping it would be rubbish in comparison as that would have made my decision easier but now I have a dilemma. The LP12 with Trampoline and Hercules and a Rega Fono MM stage would be the same price as the RP10 with MC stage. 

My gut instinct is still the Rega. It is all the turntable I would ever need without the need for constant upgrades. However, I am going to ask the dealer if they have a second hand LP12 which he could service and add a better arm and cartridge to than the standard one on the  Majyk similar money. 

Will report back agin when he's done this. 

Main issue with the Majik is the power supply, not the arm. It is a very basic (some would say Basik) design bettered even by a Valhalla (serviced) or a new Hercules. I'd never consider taking one home with its default PSU.

Just before you commit to either Rega 10 or LP12, take a look at the VPI Prime.

The Prime Signature has just received the HiFi Plus 'turntable of the year' and the Prime itself, has many awesome reviews.

So much so, that the reviewer (Alan Sircom), bought the Prime that he was actually reviewing.

I am very much in the same position as you, but here in New Zealand, it is not possible to do a side by side comparison with each deck.

Considering that you are spending a substantial amount on the turntable, it would be a shame to omit the VPI as a possible contender.

The benefit of Rega is that it is plug and play and can be shipped via UPS in a single box and set up by an amateur.  If you live a long way from a dealer, this may be important to you.  In the US, most of us live a long way from the dealer.   This also helps the resale value.

I had a Rega Planar 3 for over 20 years.   I did every upgrade you could do piecemeal as i could afford it.  I would ship it to the dealer to have the tonearm upgraded, then the cartridge upgraded, etc., and he would ship it back.  I upgraded to a Verdier 17 years ago.   It ships in four boxes.   Somebody has to take a day to assemble it on site.  I bought the dealer demo.  Now the dealer comes to me to assemble it and upgrade the cartridge.  

These big turntables are less fiddly than a Linn but are still a big commitment to vinyl.   My Verdier holds its settings so it does not require a dealer nearby unless I want to change the cartridge.   The CD555 sounds very nearly as good.     The secondary market for either is shockingly thin.    The bid-ask spread is large.   You would get a better bid second hand for the Rega.    

How much do you care about reviving your old records?   What is your budget?   Be sure to account for a solid record cleaning machine to get the vinyl benefit.  You should also plan to upgrade your phono stage to get the benefit.    You also need a high quality stand to eliminate the room feedback.  The commitment to vinyl is potentially large and as big as you want to make it.    Good luck with the process.  

By contrast, many people are happy with a system of Tidal to Nova to small speaker of your choice.  Everybody else in my family has gone this streaming route with Sonos or the equivalent.     They think I am crazy.   Be prepared for that.

Used LP12 from your dealer sounds like a great idea and the LP12 is plug and play if you get your dealer to plug it.  I've had a used LP12/Cirkus/Ittock/Lingo 1 which I paid around £1500 for all told and apart from carts have not touched it, it is all original.

Although this year I am thinking of a few smaller tweaks but the bottom line is you don't have to, yes the temptation is there to do so but that is your choice.

Is it possible to ask your dealer to demo a fully loaded LP12 vs the RP10?

I think Skip did a very informative post above. As I only have a RP10/Aphelion/Aria I have no idea what the others deliver. I can say the Rega decks are set and forget, and that the SQ of mine has got better and better as the setup of the Naim part of the system has improved. It’s really better than the CDX2/nDAC +XPSDR into 282+SuperCap DR into 300DR with full Superlumina loom. It’s the setup, particularly double spacing of boxes and attention to cables, that determines the soundstage and imaging you get. I feel immersed in the sound after getting the setup right. The sound effects from Queen’s Greatest Hits particularly CD3 are amazing, and the vinyl where those are present also (Eurhythmics). 

As the TD124/Mk II sounds almost as good with the RP8 arm and Dynavector DV10x5 into the Aria I would think that even the Rega Ania cartridge would sound good.

Although I have yet to change a cartridge myself, what my dealer tells me is that the Arm has to be removed so that when undoing the bolts on the head there is no force exerted on the bearings. With the Aphelion Rega provide a “torque wrench” so the bolts are not over tightened. This is main reason not to buy second hand, because top quality equipment is easily damaged and it might take ages to discover this through listening. It would have to be badly damaged to feel slack in the bearings.

If you have a good RCM the cartridge may never need cleaning so the DIY cartridge change never becomes necessary. 

Phil

Go give the Avid Ingenium a listen if you can! I auditioned an LP12 amongst a good few others (Roksan Oxygene, Project Xperience from memory) and it was head and shoulders miles out there in terms of detail, punch, presence what ever you want to call it.. Whatever you end up with dont cheap out on the cart and phonostage I do think this is where vinyl supremacy is easily won and lost.. I went from a 2m red to Quintet black and again it just absolutely makes a massive difference. Separation, clarity etc etc etc..

Many fascinating replies - thank you.

Another local dealer that I use is a big fan of VPI but I am afraid I have discounted them on the grounds that they aren't British. I am afraid I just want to buy a British turntable and just have to accept that I may be missing a brilliant American one by insisting on this. 

If I buy a new LP12 it'll definitely have the Hercules upgrade. I'm hopefully going to talk to the dealer tomorrow t discuss the second hand route. 

I had also thought about the Avid Diva SE but that is unfortunately too expensive. It's £3k brand new without an arm or cartridge and I have a top budget of £3.5k which is what I can get the RP10 for with Apheta 2 and Fono MC. Sticking a decent arm and cart on the Diva will take it way over my budget.

I'll report back after talking to the dealer tomorrow about the second hand LP12. 

andykram posted:

 

If I buy a new LP12 it'll definitely have the Hercules upgrade. I'm hopefully going to talk to the dealer tomorrow t discuss the second hand route. 

Sounds like a good plan. Only thing I'd add to this is that, if your dealer has one, a Lingo1 is a massive upgrade on the Valhalla/Hercules for generally not a lot more money. If not, an Hercules should tide you over nicely (I've had both in my system).

LP12 is a money trap.... you will spend and spend....it is a never ending project.. 

Rega is all set up, just cables... 

Nobody puts a gun to your head and makes you upgrade an LP12 there thousands and thousands of LP12 owners who have never paid for an upgrade and after many years own the same deck they started with.  This argument which always gets rolled out against the LP12 is the same argument held by many against Naim Audio.

Money pit?

Probably...

Albeit I used to own an LP12 (Ekos, Klyde, Circus, Trampolin and Lingo 1) up until 1999, I think that you are absolutely right.

I’ve moved to New Zealand and was thinking of getting back into Vinyl, so immediately sought out the only Linn dealer here.

The Linn Majik was better than the new Rega 6 but listening to the next level up (Akurate - with Akito, Krystal and Lingo 3), was a huge disappointment. 

Despite being more than twice the price ($5k vs $13k) it was certainly not a night and day improvement.

A far cry from what I experienced back in 1983 when I compared the original Rega 3 to LP12 (Valhalla, Basik LVX tonesrm and it’s free K9 cartridge) ... that was night and day!

Needkess to say, I bought the Linn and commenced the inevitable upgrade journey!

I sold it in 1999

I certainly have no aspirations to invest in continuous upgrades and end up with a $38k Klimax level LP12

So.... probably a VPI Prime Signature this time ????

Bob the Builder posted:

Nobody puts a gun to your head and makes you upgrade an LP12 there thousands and thousands of LP12 owners who have never paid for an upgrade and after many years own the same deck they started with.  This argument which always gets rolled out against the LP12 is the same argument held by many against Naim Audio.

yes i am talking from my Naim experience and my personal weakness  

When there is a gun in the house the probabilty of you putting it to your head increases dramatically vs no gun.....