Some UnitiServe SSD Generated MP3 Files Will Not Play

Hi Stewart, is your US running the latest software version (1.7b IIRC)? Otherwise, contacting Naim directly might be faster, I don't think many people here use the MP3 coding option ...

Klout10 posted:

Hi Stewart, is your US running the latest software version (1.7b IIRC)? Otherwise, contacting Naim directly might be faster, I don't think many people here use the MP3 coding option ...

I am not aware of a problem having produced an SD card at mp3 320 for my car. Must be 200 CDs.

Phil

Klout10 posted:

Hi Stewart, is your US running the latest software version (1.7b IIRC)? Otherwise, contacting Naim directly might be faster, I don't think many people here use the MP3 coding option ...

Hi Klout10, Yes my US is at 1.7b. I note that MP3 shadow encoding was added with version 1.7a.I have sent the problem files to Naim support and been advised there is a problem with the tagging but their advice is to purchase something like dBpoweramp! Hence the question to the forum. I appreciate not everyone will use MP3 files and indeed I use WAV files in house but with well over 1000 albums, MP3 is a good compromise for the car.

Filipe posted:

Klout10 posted:

Hi Stewart, is your US running the latest software version (1.7b IIRC)? Otherwise, contacting Naim directly might be faster, I don't think many people here use the MP3 coding option ...

I am not aware of a problem having produced an SD card at mp3 320 for my car. Must be 200 CDs.

Phil

Hi Phil, Thank you for taking time to reply and it is interesting that your mp3 320 files work in the car. Which software version are you running?

Stewart D posted:

Filipe posted:

Klout10 posted:

Hi Stewart, is your US running the latest software version (1.7b IIRC)? Otherwise, contacting Naim directly might be faster, I don't think many people here use the MP3 coding option ...

I am not aware of a problem having produced an SD card at mp3 320 for my car. Must be 200 CDs.

Phil

Hi Phil, Thank you for taking time to reply and it is interesting that your mp3 320 files work in the car. Which software version are you running?

It was the latest from around January 2017.  Version 1.7?.  Mind you if the VW car software skips duff tracks I would not know. The mp3 was stored on the NAS before being moved to the SD card with a Windows 10 PC.

Phil

So you are probably on v1.7b like me, if you upgraded this year.

What I'm finding is if there is a problem with the encoding then all the tracks on the album come up with errors so you would know. I'm playing my files in an Audi which is the same group as your car so perhaps the same player software? However if the files have errors then I'm finding that applies to all players.

I also store the files on a NAS drive before transferring to a USB drive connected to a Windows PC, although that should not make a difference.

Stewart D posted:

So you are probably on v1.7b like me, if you upgraded this year.

What I'm finding is if there is a problem with the encoding then all the tracks on the album come up with errors so you would know. I'm playing my files in an Audi which is the same group as your car so perhaps the same player software? However if the files have errors then I'm finding that applies to all players.

I also store the files on a NAS drive before transferring to a USB drive connected to a Windows PC, although that should not make a difference.

Stewart

I actually found the SQ surprising good for mp3 albeit 320kbs. I did the conversion as a bulk job after ripping as wav. Rather annoyingly the US deletes the previous lower quality alternative. I probably started the job on the US web interface. Having three interfaces is a bit of a handful which less than ideal unless you are prepared to get your hands dirty.

I found the on the fly conversion caused yet more confusion because it seemed to be low priority. It might be worth trying the bulk conversion and then not using the US until it finishes.

i had the US as an extended loan then tried the Core and quickly gave up that.

Phil

Hi Phil,

Like you I did the encoding as a bulk job. I've been using WAV files in the house but when I bought the Audi it came with USB slots and that is when I did a compare of WAV vs MP3 files. The Audi sound system is just fine (but not a patch on my house system) and agreed the SQ of the MP3 is surprisingly good. The WAV files in the Audi gave a marginal improvement but as I'd expect the meta data was missing. Of course the other benefit of MP3 files was space given the size of the USB drives.

So after settling on MP3 320 that is when I did the bulk encoding, only to find around 40% of files were unreadable. You clearly didn't have this issue so I'm still trying to get to root cause and checking out the files and having to delete 40% is frustrating.

I'm intrigued by your comment about not using the US while it is encoding. I have tried encoding the same 'failed' albums more than once and I do get consistent errors with the same albums. I will try encoding a 'failed' album when I know the US is not being used to see if that makes a difference. I'll try in the next couple of days when I get time.

Appreciate your insights. Thanks

Stewart

Hi Phil,

I've tried encoding while the US is not being used and I still get errors with the same albums. I've also tried reducing the bit rate with the same results. What is consistent is that albums that work fine always work fine and those that show errors, always show errors, whatever I do.

I'm at the latest software level so I don't know what more I can do. The problem is consistent and it is a problem which Naim have acknowledged but won't address.

I would appreciate response from Naim themselves given there is clearly a problem with their encoding algorithm.

Stewart

Stewart, 

Better contact Naim directly, it's almost impossible for them to monitor what is going on on the forum.

Best, Michel

Isn't the Unitiserve similar to the HDX?
My HDX rips WAV (or FLAC) in parallel with copies of MP3 files.
Stored in the MQ (FLAC or WAV) and LQ (MP3) folders.
All of my MP3's seem to play perfectly - around 1200 albums worth.

@Blythe, Yes I believe it is the same code.  It seems you are having more success than I am.

So in summary this is where I am,

- I am running the latest code.

- My US rips WAV in parallel with copies of MP3 files which are stored in the MQ (WAV) and LQ (MP3) folders on a NAS drive.

- 2 other Naim users have not seen the same errors. Myself and another Naim user have errors.

- My results are consistent. The files either work (about 60%) or fail consistently (about 40%), no matter how many times I try the encoding, method or bit rate i.e. an album that will not play, always errors.

- I have contacted Naim support previously and sent them the files in error and they have confirmed there is a problem with the tagging. They have suggested that I buy another product, like dBpoweramp. As you can imagine I was not impressed with this response, which is why I've used this forum to understand other users experiences.

My next step will be to escalate to someone senior within Naim because I am stuck, short of abandoning using the US to encode my MP3 files and purchasing another product.

Thank you for all your responses.

Stewart

I believe the MP3 versions are by default, converted after the initial ripping, therefore, if the encoding process is interrupted, for example by switching off the unit before it's finished, maybe that's causing an issue?
I try to avoid playing music immediately after ripping a stack of CD's to be sure it handles all the subsequent converting etc. nicely.
I'm not at all sure if it's necessary though!
The US should work flawlessly though.

Hi Blythe, I had to enable encoding to MP3 on my US and when I ripped CDs I found it created the WAV files then the MP3 ones after. It shouldn't make any difference whether anything is playing but I've also done the encoding when nothing is running and no difference. I've also encoded batches of MP3 files overnight with nothing else running and again errors. I agree the US should work flawlessly .... but it doesn't on 40% of CDs. For some it seems to work fine. Work that one out!

A very strange one which I hope you're able to get sorted, with (or without) the help of Naim HQ.

I would guess that there might be a specific tag in some of your music files that the MP3 format can't handle, and if you can identify what it is, you may be able to edit it out. Of course, that might involve some time consuming detective work with no guarantee of success.

Given that a solution from Naim looks unlikely, an alternative 'workaround' would be to convert your WAVs to FLAC. This makes the metadata readable on non-Naim devices, and reduces file size significantly, although not as much as MP3. Some VWs can play FLAC, others can't, so you would need to check this first. 

Yes, I believe it is the tagging that is the problem and Phil at Naim has tried editing the files in error but without success. With 1000+ albums in my collection, if I could edit the files it would be a huge job as I'd have about 400 to edit. What I want is for the US to deliver 100% success in encoding MP3 but I agree the Naim route is not looking hopeful unless I can get them to show some interest. 

I chose WAV over FLAC for my home setup. My Audi will play FLAC and while it doesn't say it supports WAV it will play WAV files.  I get none of the metadata so I can only see the directory structure i.e. Artist and Directory showing the name of the Album. Using WAV may be my plan B but given the size of the WAV files I will have to invest in more USB sticks and get none of the track names. 

Stewart D posted:

Yes, I believe it is the tagging that is the problem and Phil at Naim has tried editing the files in error but without success. With 1000+ albums in my collection, if I could edit the files it would be a huge job as I'd have about 400 to edit. What I want is for the US to deliver 100% success in encoding MP3 but I agree the Naim route is not looking hopeful unless I can get them to show some interest. 

I chose WAV over FLAC for my home setup. My Audi will play FLAC and while it doesn't say it supports WAV it will play WAV files.  I get none of the metadata so I can only see the directory structure i.e. Artist and Directory showing the name of the Album. Using WAV may be my plan B but given the size of the WAV files I will have to invest in more USB sticks and get none of the track names. 

Glad you are making progress. Could you explain the nature of the metadata error?

Phil

Stewart D posted:

I chose WAV over FLAC for my home setup. My Audi will play FLAC and while it doesn't say it supports WAV it will play WAV files.  I get none of the metadata so I can only see the directory structure i.e. Artist and Directory showing the name of the Album. Using WAV may be my plan B but given the size of the WAV files I will have to invest in more USB sticks and get none of the track names. 

If you convert your library to FLAC then set the US to transcode to WAV on playback, you still feed your streamer with your preferred WAVs and have a more versatile FLAC storage format. 

Filipe posted:

Stewart D posted:

Yes, I believe it is the tagging that is the problem and Phil at Naim has tried editing the files in error but without success. With 1000+ albums in my collection, if I could edit the files it would be a huge job as I'd have about 400 to edit. What I want is for the US to deliver 100% success in encoding MP3 but I agree the Naim route is not looking hopeful unless I can get them to show some interest. 

I chose WAV over FLAC for my home setup. My Audi will play FLAC and while it doesn't say it supports WAV it will play WAV files.  I get none of the metadata so I can only see the directory structure i.e. Artist and Directory showing the name of the Album. Using WAV may be my plan B but given the size of the WAV files I will have to invest in more USB sticks and get none of the track names. 

Glad you are making progress. Could you explain the nature of the metadata error?

Phil

WAV files store metadata in extra chunks and while the US can read and handle this extra information, most players cannot and that includes my car, hence all I see is the file directory structure. That is not an error as such; it is expected behaviour.

Indeed, WAV has the standardised way of carrying metadata, using ListInfo, but these tends to be used more in commercial/industrial applications rather than consumer. There has been a defacto extension of WAV (the WAV standard allows such extensions) of using ID3 tags in WAV file for consumer use. Popular rippers such as dbPoweramp can be configured to write both standardised industrial and defacto commercial metadata tags constructs.... interestingly Microsoft Windows uses the industrial / commercial standardised way of using WAV tags (ListInfo).

Some consumer software, including Apple OSX, only reads the absolute minimum info in WAV files and discards the rest.. this being the two header and data chunks... such software will not not read WAV meta data of any description and simply go silent on it by ignoring it.