ATC SCM40 Active or Not

My recent experience was with ATC 100's... in passive mode driven by a NAP500 (4 yrs old, non-DR) - distinctly underwhelming.  In active mode, a totally different speaker.  I haven't lost the 'Naim sound' when changing to active;  as someone said earlier, the preamp is the main definer of 'the Naim sound' and I'd tend to agree with that.

OK, you're not looking at the SCM100's, but I would bet my hat that the 'active' effect is the same down the range, so my advice is firmly to keep the 272 and buy the active speakers.   You don't say if your 272 is powered by an external power source, but if not you have an upgrade path here that's well worth exploring.

And finally, I've replaced the supplied power cables on the dem pair that I'm borrowing whilst waiting for my own to be manufactured, with Powerline Lite and I've plugged them into the same 6mm dedicated spur(s) that feed the rest of my Naim kit.  The Powerline Lite leads make a small but discernable improvement, so I see no reason to think that a full fat Powerline would likewise deliver an improvement... after all, as my dealer points out, these are now your main amps, why wouldn't you run them with Powerlines?   (answer, of course, is 2 x £560  = £1,120    )

Roger

Man with no Naim posted:

I was very interested in the article you wrote, concerning the ATC SCM40 terminal connections.  I understand what you have done with internal wiring, however, would it be possible to post a external picture of the new terminals fitted. The reason I ask, is that I also own the SCM40’s and have always thought this area one of the weak links in manufacture. Thank you.

I will see what I can do, but have not posted images on here previously so may take a while to work out. However the rear does not look much different from stock other than the lower set of terminals are the WBT ones, which are of slightly larger diameter.

Just thought I would update you with my story regarding Active 40's.

My system currently consists of Naim 272,555DR PS, 250DR, ATC Passive 19's, Speaker Stands, Superlumina Speaker Cables and Interconnects.

Since owning the Passive 19's for only a few months and really preferring their presentation to my previous PMC 20.23's I knew I wanted to see what the ATC Active speakers were like. I looked for a dealer that did both Naim and ATC's and eventually came across Jack at the Audiobarn. Numerous emails and phone calls later, I decided to have a demo of the Active 40's at the Audiobarn despite the 150 Mile / 3 Hour journey. This occurred in between Christmas and New Year, Jack was very accommodating and it was a very relaxed and enjoyable demo. Thank you Jack. As soon as I first heard the active 40's I knew they were very special. Much deeper and better defined Bass - it felt like another lower octave had been added. The midrange was clearer and the treble also. The way the 3 drivers integrated with each other was very impressive and the shear power and dynamic contrast was excellent. I arranged with Jack a home demo and took a Chord Shawline RCA - XLR set of cables and a Naim Powerline - more on this shortly.

The demo Active 40's arrived a week ago in their flight cases direct from ATC (110KG's!). I needed to check they would physically fit in my lounge and that they would integrate with my system. The sound produced was equally as spectacular as during the demo at the Audiobarn. I was very impressed and after a weekend of warming up, I tried changing the standard power leads for my Naim Powerline from my 250DR and the one lent from Jack. The difference the Powerlines make is astonishing! The Bass goes even deeper and tighter and the midrange and treble is clearer still. I'm really shocked at the difference the Powerlines made!

So as you might of guessed, I quite like the Active 40's! and have placed an order with Jack at the Audiobarn, including a set of Chord Shawline RCA -XLR and a Naim Powerline. The Demo speakers will be going back to ATC on Friday and then I have a 4 week wait for my new speakers. Jack offered me a good part exchange of my Passive 19's, Speaker Stands, 250DR and the Superlumina cabling. Once the new Active 40's are delivered to Jack, I will drive up and part exchange my items in one transaction.

Thanks for reading and if you have any questions about my experience with the Active 40's please don't hesitate to ask!

Russ

Congratulation Russ on purchasing a true masterpiece of hifi gear, the SCM40A - I love mine two years on as much, if not more so, than the first time I Iistened to them. Enjoy!

Thank you HM, they really are very special aren’t they. Do you keep yours powered up all the time and did you find the Mark Grant power cables made a big improvement?

Russt posted:

 

... Thanks for reading and if you have any questions about my experience with the Active 40's please don't hesitate to ask!

Russ

My question has been addressed by some other forum members on this thread but did you compare the SCM40A against the passive 40 and if so, what was your impression?

Apologies in advance if I missed it on the thread and you've already commented on that and I missed it. 

Hi NewNaim16, no I didn’t compare the passive 40’s to the actives. Just my passive 19’s against the active 40’s. I’ve done quite a bit of research and realised that the passive crossover is the limiting factor with passive speakers. With the active 40’s I can reduce my box count to just the 272 & 555dr power supply and remove the Superlumina cabling. The figure to upgrade to the active 40’s with my part exchanges is less than 2k so I feel it is more than worth it! 

Russt posted:

Thank you HM, they really are very special aren’t they. Do you keep yours powered up all the time and did you find the Mark Grant power cables made a big improvement?

No, I just warm them up before a session  

Difficult to say whether new power cables have made any difference, not done any serious comparison, certainly hasn't made sound quality any worse. I've moved to Chord C-power now as needed a little extra length after repositioning speakers. I did ask ATC before buying and they said they have not experienced new power cables making any improvement. It would be interesting to hear the Naim Powerlines. My speakers are just on a shared ring main.

What did make a difference was changing RCA to XLR interconnect from DAC to speakers. I noticed my Chord Shawline introduced buzz/hum when close to a power cable so I changed to Mogami 2549 for better shielding. Also did proper cable dressing. No more buzz/hum and a more relaxed/slower presentation yet without any loss of detail.

Russt posted:

Hi NewNaim16, no I didn’t compare the passive 40’s to the actives. Just my passive 19’s against the active 40’s. I’ve done quite a bit of research and realised that the passive crossover is the limiting factor with passive speakers. With the active 40’s I can reduce my box count to just the 272 & 555dr power supply and remove the Superlumina cabling. The figure to upgrade to the active 40’s with my part exchanges is less than 2k so I feel it is more than worth it! 

I didn't get that impression from Dynaudio actives that the passive crossover is a limiting factor.

The passives sound very good to me so I stayed with my Nap 250DR.

Halloween Man posted:

Russt posted:

Thank you HM, they really are very special aren’t they. Do you keep yours powered up all the time and did you find the Mark Grant power cables made a big improvement?

No, I just warm them up before a session  

Difficult to say whether new power cables have made any difference, not done any serious comparison, certainly hasn't made sound quality any worse. I've moved to Chord C-power now as needed a little extra length after repositioning speakers. I did ask ATC before buying and they said they have not experienced new power cables making any improvement. It would be interesting to hear the Naim Powerlines. My speakers are just on a shared ring main.

What did make a difference was changing RCA to XLR interconnect from DAC to speakers. I noticed my Chord Shawline introduced buzz/hum when close to a power cable so I changed to Mogami 2549 for better shielding. Also did proper cable dressing. No more buzz/hum and a more relaxed/slower presentation yet without any loss of detail.

Thanks HM, I found the Naim Powerlines to make a big difference compared to the stock power cables and my demo speakers are only on a shared ring main too.

I haven't had any issues with buzz or hum from the Chord Shawline but just in case, where did you source your Mogami cabling from as I can't see an obvious source in the UK? And also, did you find that the speakers needed much burning in from new or did they sound great from the start?

Many thanks

Russ

analogmusic posted:

Russt posted:

Hi NewNaim16, no I didn’t compare the passive 40’s to the actives. Just my passive 19’s against the active 40’s. I’ve done quite a bit of research and realised that the passive crossover is the limiting factor with passive speakers. With the active 40’s I can reduce my box count to just the 272 & 555dr power supply and remove the Superlumina cabling. The figure to upgrade to the active 40’s with my part exchanges is less than 2k so I feel it is more than worth it! 

I didn't get that impression from Dynaudio actives that the passive crossover is a limiting factor.

The passives sound very good to me so I stayed with my Nap 250DR.

Dynaudio say of active (in respect of which they use digital active crossovers):

You don’t lose or change any information, which happens even when using best analogue components.

Yes, there’s more control over the process in the digital active crossover; component tolerances are not an issue: “We have much more control over the process and transmission. There are not any component tolerances to worry about. In digital crossovers, the components are numbers in a DSP,” said Jan Abildgaard Pedersen, Chief Technology Officer at Dynaudio, in our Ask the Expert episode about DSP.

That means we can prevent loss of information in the signal path from the source to the drive unit. And that’s important if your goal is to reproduce music as close to the original as possible.

Naim is Naim - if I go active it will be all Naim for me 

Out of interest, have you compared Dyn active vs Passive Naim-Dyn? 

Russt posted:

Halloween Man posted:

Russt posted:

Thank you HM, they really are very special aren’t they. Do you keep yours powered up all the time and did you find the Mark Grant power cables made a big improvement?

No, I just warm them up before a session  

Difficult to say whether new power cables have made any difference, not done any serious comparison, certainly hasn't made sound quality any worse. I've moved to Chord C-power now as needed a little extra length after repositioning speakers. I did ask ATC before buying and they said they have not experienced new power cables making any improvement. It would be interesting to hear the Naim Powerlines. My speakers are just on a shared ring main.

What did make a difference was changing RCA to XLR interconnect from DAC to speakers. I noticed my Chord Shawline introduced buzz/hum when close to a power cable so I changed to Mogami 2549 for better shielding. Also did proper cable dressing. No more buzz/hum and a more relaxed/slower presentation yet without any loss of detail.

Thanks HM, I found the Naim Powerlines to make a big difference compared to the stock power cables and my demo speakers are only on a shared ring main too.

I haven't had any issues with buzz or hum from the Chord Shawline but just in case, where did you source your Mogami cabling from as I can't see an obvious source in the UK? And also, did you find that the speakers needed much burning in from new or did they sound great from the start?

Many thanks

Russ

Hi Russ, I ordered a custom made pair from redco in the usa. I loved the speakers from new but yes they do run in and get even better, especially in the first couple of weeks. The biggest change for me was the bass balance, bass increased yet remained balanced and accurate. The tweeter and mid smoothed out creating even more beautiful life-like sound. ATC sometimes have a reputation for a clinical and unforgiving sound but I don't find this at all with SCM40A. Yes accurate, but also a forgiving and easy listen, I could listen to them all day, every day. A difficult balancing act that I've never heard in any other speaker, not that I've listened to all that many  

so I keep hearing that the active ATC 40A does not sound well at low levels? What does that mean? What are low volumes in this case?  Is this a speaker only for a listening room and not to be used in your living room? 

Absolutely no idea!!!!!

I used to have a pair active 50's for almost 18 years and not strictly being designed for domestic use, they sounded much better at higher listening levels. They were after all, originally intended for use in studios and were given a veneer finish for domestic settings.

Having moved to New Zealand and having a smaller lounge area, I sold the 50's ....

The active 40's (to my ears) actually sound superior in my setting and sound better at lower volume levels than the 50's ever did ..... but they are specifically designed for domestic home use.

Obviously the bass isn't as extended as the 50's ... but it is more than enough.

Go audition a pair and make sure that the dealer turns down the listening level ... then you will definitely know if they are good for you. Please ignore all the B**S** from reviewers and internet forums.

After all, if you buy something, it's you that has to live with it - not them! 

Trust YOUR ears ONLY 

hey mr. frog thanks for the reply. i agree i will have to find a way to listen to them. living in romania right now and havent yet found a pair.. even in london where i will be next week i tried to set up an audition i could not find an active pair!! so for now rely on how forum members experience them at low levels. cheers, pieter

So I went to my dealer and auditioned SCM19, SCM40 and SCM20SL against my Elac 244BE. Except for a slightly metallic touch compared to the ATCs (which could be cured using different cables) my Elacs are better in every respect.

Better dynamics, more detailed and far more engaging. I really wanted to like the ATC speakers but truth be told, they lack the musicality and excitement I'm looking for, being overly analytical and "correct". They also shine when driven loud, not so much at low listening levels, regardless to the amplifier specs.

One more thing. The 250DR isn't enough to drive the 19s properly, unless you don't know any better. The ATC P1 did a far better job, but the P2 really brought things to life. I don't even want to mention SCM40's performance on the Naim.

Sad. My ATC journey ends here.

Hi Dan, did you try the Active 40's? They are in a different league to the passive versions. Admittedly I've gone from passive 19's to Active 40's but when I had to go back to the passive 19's after returning the demo Active 40's the passive 19's sounded dreadful. The majority of the bass had disappeared and the midrange and treble was more subdued. The excitement factor was missing too. Although the Passive 19's sounded great before I heard the Active 40's!

As for listening at lower volume, the Active 40's are really good at low levels. The Bass remains solid and tight and the midrange and treble remain really clear but they are even better at higher volume. Again I can't comment on the Passive 40's in this respect.

My brand new Active 40's are due to be delivered today. Slightly excited! 

Pieter - if you contact Jack at the Audiobarn he usually has a demo pair of Active 40's if you can get to Harlow in Essex.

Dan.S posted:

So I went to my dealer and auditioned SCM19, SCM40 and SCM20SL against my Elac 244BE. Except for a slightly metallic touch compared to the ATCs (which could be cured using different cables) my Elacs are better in every respect.

Better dynamics, more detailed and far more engaging. I really wanted to like the ATC speakers but truth be told, they lack the musicality and excitement I'm looking for, being overly analytical and "correct". They also shine when driven loud, not so much at low listening levels, regardless to the amplifier specs.

One more thing. The 250DR isn't enough to drive the 19s properly, unless you don't know any better. The ATC P1 did a far better job, but the P2 really brought things to life. I don't even want to mention SCM40's performance on the Naim.

 

Sad. My ATC journey ends here.

Wow, very surprised to hear that. Overly analytical, lacking musicality and excitement would be the last words I would use to describe my SCM40 actives. For me, they sound superb, accurate, and well balanced whatever the listening level. Each to their own I guess.