Although a newcomer to streaming audio, I was long led to believe that the FLAC format was indistinguishable from LPCM -WAVE file specifically.
Although my nascent listening evaluations (thus far) hardly qualify as thorough, my set-up (for whatever reason) clearly reveals WAVE to be superior to the same CD recorded using FLAC (lossy formats need not apply).
Here (on Naim forums), I was given reasons as to why this may be so (for my set-up). No arguments. I was enlightened.
Yet, it does astound me that so many listener's over decades with wildly varying systems often report similar findings. This is, naturally important to me as I continue to catalog my CD collection. Starting out (simply for my own verification), I copied CD files using WAVE, FLAC and various MP-4 (AAC) and later MP-3 Lame (dbpoweramp, foobar 2000 for playback).
Simply copy using WAVE many would state simply. Indeed, that's how I will proceed. However, in discussing this very thing last time here on this site, bit-for-bit accuracy crept (rightfully) into the discussion; namely, if even 'noise' is removed from the signal (when copying/transferring), it would NOT BE bit-for-bit accurate. Fascinating, I thought to myself. An appropriate segue thus follows: If that is indeed true, how possibly then could a reduced file size format (i.e. FLAC) be possibly bit-for-bit accurate. I realize (I think) that the original file size is somehow compressed (FLAC) without losing anything -and then unpacked during playback.
Could it be that this crucial (critical?) factor; any loss of the original signal (regardless of what it is) cannot therefore be an accurate rendition (if it is lost, or simply skewed by whatever reason) upon playback ?
pj
Posted on: 26 November 2017 by Innocent Bystander
It has all been explained to you before: flac IS bit perfect, Full stop. Period. End.
You have produced no evidence whatsoever to indicate to the contrary. DId you try what I suggested and listen to wav, then use dBPoweramp to convert that wav file to flac, and then reconvert back to wav, and compare that with the original wav file? (Of course blind listening to avoid bias)? If not, why do you persist with this hypothesis that flac degrades the data, rather than accept that the difference heard is purely due tothe renderer, as numerous people on the forum have explained?
Posted on: 26 November 2017 by David Hendon
Lossless means lossless, not almost but not quite lossless.
If you can hear a difference between WAV and FLAC, it's because your streamer (renderer) is having to work hard to decode a FLAC and you can hear the effect of that. There isn't some conspiracy to hide some shortcoming in the FLAC. The mathematics works. The electronics of your renderer is not perfect. That's all.
best
David
Posted on: 26 November 2017 by blythe
A difference may be heard, even though FLAC is lossless and WAV is lossless.
Rendering those files may present a difference to the sound.
I prefer the sound of WAV compared to FLAC but, I prefer correct tagging across different platforms (I have some Sonos wireless speakers in one application).
Therefore, I set my HDX to transcode FLAC to WAV on playback, and in the case of my NAS drive system, I set Assett on the NAS to transcode on playback.
I can't tell the difference between the FLAC and WAV files when doing that, so I continue to rip to FLAC.
The difference, as mentioned above, may be due to the player/renderer unpacking the files.
Posted on: 27 November 2017 by jon h
One could argue that if a renderer sounds different when playing a FLAC versus a WAV of the same digital source material, then it is broken or not properly designed. AKA if the designers know it has an issue, they should have fixed it.
Posted on: 27 November 2017 by james n
One could argue that if a renderer sounds different when playing a FLAC versus a WAV of the same digital source material, then it is broken or not properly designed. AKA if the designers know it has an issue, they should have fixed it.
Or to remove some of the variables, the manufacturer recommends a certain format they have designed the player to sound the best with. If they recommends WAV, and you want the best bang for your buck, then use it.
I'm not sure why this subject still gets people so excited as it's been discussed to death many times.
Posted on: 27 November 2017 by Huge
Do you believe that, using integer maths, 2+2 = approximately 4?
If you believe that, using integer maths, 2+2 = exactly 4, then you have no reason to doubt the maths of FLAC. It works: Accept it or teach yourself enough maths to put forward a rational argument.
As other have said, this has all been explained before. However you didn't listen, instead resorting to insults to bully anyone who dared to oppose your own perception of your great wisdom and absolute knowledge. So from that, you still owe the rest of your apology to myself and indeed ALL the members of this forum (last time you managed to insult every single member of this forum).
