Naim Ovator S400

I don’t know about that - Super Lumina works rather well too. 

At more like everyday price HH?

Ah, but you didn’t specify that. 

4.5m is way too much space between the speakers. You would have to sit at least 4.5 meters in front for decent sound.

Unfortunately my Orangery is only 3 metres deep. I know the science....an equalateral triangle with the listeners ears at the apex, but it's not possible. 

I could resite it all into our 7m X 8m lounge, but then we wouldn't be able to enjoy the views of the rolling countryside through the bifold doors whilst listening to our music.

Just as an aside......anyone think a Mana four tier rack is a good upgrade over a gplan cupboard (Lol). I've got a chance at one (£200 quids though)????

You have to make do with the circumstances you have and the logistical constraints of your preferred listening location in the orangery. Your value on the view of rolling countryside relative to possibly better sound in another room are yours to decide. So aside from equilateral triangle theories, a proper rack does seem a potential enhancement. In most cases I'd say better racking = better sonic results. OTOH, given your unorthodox situation in the orangery, no telling. That said, the benefits of better racking should manifest themselves in any given arrangement. Reduced feedback on the gear will result in cleaner replay.

Kimbleman posted:

....... is a good upgrade over a gplan cupboard (Lol).  .......

Chippendale I could have understood  ;-)

Mana racks were the 'go to' rack throughout the 90's if you wanted to extract the maximum potential from your Naim system. Many people still use them under LP12's and I still think these are about as good a support as you can get. Just because they are 'old technology ' doesn't mean they sound any worse today.

I'm a great believer in getting the foundation of a system correct - good stand and good electrics. I think this is worth at least a couple of 'black box' upgrades in SQ. I'd get the rack without hesitation but be prepared for a fiddly set-up. Make sure every level of glass rings and doesn't rattle with micro adjustments to the spiking system. This is essential but I reckon you'll be surprised at the improvement to your system.

Kimbleman,

why not get one of those new fangled Naim music box thingy’s for the orangery and set up your main system optimally in that other room? Just a thought.

Stu

I love my s400's they're silky smooth and are one of my best purchases. I have a patient wife who thinks then too big and would rather have a log burner. She freaked out a bit at the size of them when they arrived in their 'coffin like' packaging but they've been here 2 years now and are well settled.I've a 202/200 FC CD5 and a mac mini or sonos are used with a DacV1.I'm so glad I gave up on mixed systems of different brands . A whole Naim system using their cable and NACA has proved the best route. The speakers  stand there producing lovely music

Hi SJW.

Yes I have to agree. the more I listen to different genres of music on them the more I seem to like them. That said I think my system now does show up rubbish CDs (unfortunately one of which is a favourite). The combination of CD5X (plus Flatcap 2X) into the Supernait 2 and into the S400's seems to Gel very well....and great recordings sound amazing!

Agree about the looks. Unfortunately these are in very dark ebony....they look like large black monoliths stood tall in the corners. My missus reaction was 'oh Garry what have you brought into the house' but after the first weekend of listening to lots of music, she pretty much got won over by the sound (especially when I put Depeche mode on).

I had to buy the log burner first mate (got one about six weeks ago) as a means of easing first the supernait 2 and then the Ovators through the front door past the Missus. I had got us a Dog back in September (Mack...a Colluki) so with massive brownie points already banked.....I have been tearing through them in the past four weeks with not one but two Hifi additions. Picking up the four tier Mana rack on Sunday and have promised her this is the final up-grade (it's not....there's still a length of Naca5 cable needed and I think some time around spring I fancy adding a naim streamer).

Met with my Pal Dave last night who used to have a Mana rack.....said he'd pop around to help get it 'Ringing' (oh what fun we have).

Also.....given the set-up above, which is the most 'economical' way to get streaming with naim? I have CAT5E all around the house but unfortunately not in the Orangery (where the system resides) but I DO have an absolutely fantastic google wireless network (it really is a superb wireless system with just two 'pods' that sends the net around the house at about 40-50Mb/sec....awesome). So wireless preferred and controlled on my nexus 10 tablet too.

Cheers all.

Moderated Post:  Kimbleman, please ensure you have read and understood the forum rules - particularly the part that expressly forbids sales/wants...

Kimbleman posted:

Chaps,

I'm taking a punt on a pair of nearly mint (one scratch) Ovator S400's second hand.

The price and pick-up has been agreed (they are a bargain) and the idea is to partner these with my existing Supernait 2, CD5X and Flatcap 2X.

Now I have read all the reviews and it's confusing to say the least as some are raving on them, others seemingly wouldn't give them houseroom!! So given that these are to replace a pair of naim Credos, which are supplemented for louder party listening by an ancient pair of Ditton 44's.....what's the prediction, am I gonna smile as they knock the old speakers to the canvas or am I just going to hear my music 'differently'?

Somebody out there must be pairing a supernait (2) and with a naim front end with a pair of these beauties? 

Musical tastes are across the board Depeche mode / Porcupine tree / Floyd through Jason Mraz to all forms of Jazz and a bit of classical.....so they are gonna have to excel in all genres (and have the ability to go quite loud. Listening room is an oddball 2.5metres x 6Metres (it's an Orangery) with solid floors with engineered wood over, plants, sofa and a large rug. Any advice for positioning and use on this type of flooring? Bi-fold doors will mean they need to be a min of 4.5m apart....facing across the 2.5m wide orangery at a central sofa listening position.

These are a pair of ex-staff members (no serial number and no boxes) does that alter the value by that much? I guess if they were boxed, had an original bill of sale and a serial number I'd be looking at £1600-1900.....these are considerably less, so what would you say is the going rate for some like this (bearing in mind they are probably early production....2009)?

So that's it....any opinions....am I being crazy (given the room limitations)? Should I have just stuck with my old speakers!!??

Cheers

Gaz

 

I have been using the Ovator S-400 with a SN2 for about three years and I am very satisfied. I mainly listen to classical music and a little bit of opera and to me the S-400 just sound "right" and very natural. I do not have the impression that I have to sit in a well defined spot to fully enjoy the music and I find the speakers aesthetically acceptable (I find most speakers rather ugly). There is a potential problem you should be aware, however. This is the spade connector in the S-400's plinth. The connector consists of two plastic shells, one on the inside and one on the outside of the metal plate in the rear of the plinth. The outer shell is connected with the inner shell by means of two tiny metal screws. The screws are only a few millimeters apart from each other, reach into two tiny plastic cylinders only about 1.5mm and are not accessible from the outside of the plinth. If you happen to push the spades of the NAC A5 connector a little bit too hard into the S-400's connector - typically, to overcome normal friction - it can happen that the two shells fall apart. At this point, your S-400 has become unusable and you will have to send it back to Naim. Alternatively, you can unscrew the base of the plinth and replace the connector if you manage to get a new one. Replacing the connector is a bit clumsy because the screws are really small and you need a very long and small Torx T8 screwdriver to tighten them. In contrast to the connectors that terminate the NAC A5 which are very solid, the connector in the S-400's plinth is a defective design, in my view.

love my S400's as well. 

nbpf posted:

If you happen to push the spades of the NAC A5 connector a little bit too hard into the S-400's connector - typically, to overcome normal friction - it can happen that the two shells fall apart. At this point, your S-400 has become unusable and you will have to send it back to Naim. Alternatively, you can unscrew the base of the plinth and replace the connector if you manage to get a new one. Replacing the connector is a bit clumsy because the screws are really small and you need a very long and small Torx T8 screwdriver to tighten them. In contrast to the connectors that terminate the NAC A5 which are very solid, the connector in the S-400's plinth is a defective design, in my view.

I understood that Ovator speakers come with Ovator speaker pins (for want of a better phrase) which are to be soldered to speaker cables, and which have been designed specifically to fit the sockets on the back of the Ovator speakers.

Christopher_M posted:

nbpf posted:

If you happen to push the spades of the NAC A5 connector a little bit too hard into the S-400's connector - typically, to overcome normal friction - it can happen that the two shells fall apart. At this point, your S-400 has become unusable and you will have to send it back to Naim. Alternatively, you can unscrew the base of the plinth and replace the connector if you manage to get a new one. Replacing the connector is a bit clumsy because the screws are really small and you need a very long and small Torx T8 screwdriver to tighten them. In contrast to the connectors that terminate the NAC A5 which are very solid, the connector in the S-400's plinth is a defective design, in my view.

I understood that Ovator speakers come with Ovator speaker pins (for want of a better phrase) which are to be soldered to speaker cables, and which have been designed specifically to fit the sockets on the back of the Ovator speakers.

Usually, not always, when supplied by dealers the cables are terminated with Naim recommended own plugs. If not, this might help:

https://forums.naimaudio.com/to...r-naim-speaker-plugs

Christopher_M posted:

nbpf posted:

If you happen to push the spades of the NAC A5 connector a little bit too hard into the S-400's connector - typically, to overcome normal friction - it can happen that the two shells fall apart. At this point, your S-400 has become unusable and you will have to send it back to Naim. Alternatively, you can unscrew the base of the plinth and replace the connector if you manage to get a new one. Replacing the connector is a bit clumsy because the screws are really small and you need a very long and small Torx T8 screwdriver to tighten them. In contrast to the connectors that terminate the NAC A5 which are very solid, the connector in the S-400's plinth is a defective design, in my view.

I understood that Ovator speakers come with Ovator speaker pins (for want of a better phrase) which are to be soldered to speaker cables, and which have been designed specifically to fit the sockets on the back of the Ovator speakers.

Right. The socket on the back of the Ovator speakers is the weak point. It consists of an inner and of an outer plastic shells. The two shells are connected by two tiny metal screws. The inner shell and the two screws are not visible from the outside. If the connection loosens (which can happen very easily because the two screws only grip in about 1mm of plastic and the socket is very poorly engineered) the speaker becomes unusable. When it happened the first time to me, my speaker was almost new. My first impulse was to throw the speaker into the window of my Naim dealer. Good that my dealer was about 500 miles away from my place. It is hard to believe it but Naim really screwed it up with the Ovator sockets. Apart from this, the speaker is fine.

Tony2011 posted:

Christopher_M posted:

nbpf posted:

If you happen to push the spades of the NAC A5 connector a little bit too hard into the S-400's connector - typically, to overcome normal friction - it can happen that the two shells fall apart. At this point, your S-400 has become unusable and you will have to send it back to Naim. Alternatively, you can unscrew the base of the plinth and replace the connector if you manage to get a new one. Replacing the connector is a bit clumsy because the screws are really small and you need a very long and small Torx T8 screwdriver to tighten them. In contrast to the connectors that terminate the NAC A5 which are very solid, the connector in the S-400's plinth is a defective design, in my view.

I understood that Ovator speakers come with Ovator speaker pins (for want of a better phrase) which are to be soldered to speaker cables, and which have been designed specifically to fit the sockets on the back of the Ovator speakers.

Usually, not always, when supplied by dealers the cables are terminated with Naim recommended own plugs. If not, this might help:

https://forums.naimaudio.com/to...r-naim-speaker-plugs

This was the case with my cables: they were terminated with the original Naim connectors. The soldering was done by my dealer and, as far as I can say, it was and still is flawless. The problem that I have reported is one of the S-400 connectors. I am a mechanical engineer and I have some basic understanding of how forces act on bodies. To me it is incomprehensible that a 5 cent socket can make a 6000 EUR speaker completely unusable. This is crap design beyond good and evil. The S-400 is otherwise fine, I believe.  

nbpf posted:

Christopher_M posted:

nbpf posted:

If you happen to push the spades of the NAC A5 connector a little bit too hard into the S-400's connector - typically, to overcome normal friction - it can happen that the two shells fall apart. At this point, your S-400 has become unusable and you will have to send it back to Naim. Alternatively, you can unscrew the base of the plinth and replace the connector if you manage to get a new one. Replacing the connector is a bit clumsy because the screws are really small and you need a very long and small Torx T8 screwdriver to tighten them. In contrast to the connectors that terminate the NAC A5 which are very solid, the connector in the S-400's plinth is a defective design, in my view.

I understood that Ovator speakers come with Ovator speaker pins (for want of a better phrase) which are to be soldered to speaker cables, and which have been designed specifically to fit the sockets on the back of the Ovator speakers.

Right. The socket on the back of the Ovator speakers is the weak point. It consists of an inner and of an outer plastic shells. The two shells are connected by two tiny metal screws. The inner shell and the two screws are not visible from the outside. If the connection loosens (which can happen very easily because the two screws only grip in about 1mm of plastic and the socket is very poorly engineered) the speaker becomes unusable. When it happened the first time to me, my speaker was almost new. My first impulse was to throw the speaker into the window of my Naim dealer. Good that my dealer was about 500 miles away from my place. It is hard to believe it but Naim really screwed it up with the Ovator sockets. Apart from this, the speaker is fine.

Can you use the right pins which have been designed by Naim's mechanical engineers?

I have to agree with nbpf. I'm a mechanical design engineer (working for Siemens) and frankly it sounds like the guys that signed this design of this socket off (so the chief engineer and the project manager) really need their arses kicked. Presumably this is a piece of classic naim flat earth design. Let's incorporate a fancy (non microphonic) socket into the loudspeaker to gain 0.0001% in performance at the cost of reliability! If this is a problem they should have come up with a robust solution and offer a free refit under a product recall. I can promise you, if one of my Ovators stops working due to a deficient speaker socket it will be loaded into my car and driven seventy miles to nains factory!!! They have obviously never heard of failure mode effects analysis (FMEA) as practiced by more or less every (good) design department around the globe!

Are the sockets deficient if they are used with the specified pins?

This is the first time I’ve heard of this

When I had the S400 home for demo I plugged them in using the standard Naim speaker plugs on my NACA5. Was that a faulty demo of the 400s' true performance? Maybe they'd have been a fit with the proper plugs?

Well I am just using standard banana plugs. They fitted snugly and (to my ears) sound just great. 

Drewy posted:

This is the first time I’ve heard of this

Perhaps it's not a common issue and thus not a design flaw as such. It sounds like (as with the Hi-Line) you just need to take a bit of care but i realise it must be a royal PITA if it happens. 

From the manual :-

The Ovator connection terminals are intended to accept the custom-designed Ovator speaker connector. This connector is designed to provide the best possible performance. Other 4mm plugs can be used, however the results will be unpredictable. 

It is important that loudspeaker cables are arranged and dressed so that mechanical stress is minimised and that no undue force is applied to the connectors either during or after connection.