I want Qobuz integration!

Hungryhalibut posted:

Yes, but Qobuz is very European, while Tidal is more worldwide. I don’t really think it’s worth getting very excited about any of these streaming services. The sound quality fallls well short of music streamed from a server, and to my mind it’s a waste of a Naim system to have either Tidal or Qobuz as a prime source. They are great for exploration and checking out things before you buy, but for serious listening, they are a non starter. 

I'd disagree, i find Tidal superb (I download the majority of what I listen to regularly) and not lacking anything compared to my lossless ripped and bought files playing from the USB port.

Add to that the shear convenience and portability.

Gazza posted:

I think Simon in Suffolk has commented in the past that at busy network times, early evening etc, sound quality can be affected, I have also noticed this.

Thanks Gazza, yes with Naim streamers (though can’t comment on new Uniti architecture) are prone to subtle sound degradation when the network stack works harder. Streaming over the internet does tend to mean the stack works harder.. however using a local media proxy as outlined above alleviates such issues.... however as I have found different media servers sound different with Naim streamers, and on inspection the sonic differences can be linked to network interframe timing.

i also agree Tidal can sound like local streaming, just unfortunately not all the time... I use a Tidal quite a lot for classical music replay and rarer EPs.. I am sure it’s great for rap as well it suites your tastes but I never venture there

Simon

Obsydian posted:

Hungryhalibut posted:

Yes, but Qobuz is very European, while Tidal is more worldwide. I don’t really think it’s worth getting very excited about any of these streaming services. The sound quality fallls well short of music streamed from a server, and to my mind it’s a waste of a Naim system to have either Tidal or Qobuz as a prime source. They are great for exploration and checking out things before you buy, but for serious listening, they are a non starter. 

I'd disagree, i find Tidal superb (I download the majority of what I listen to regularly) and not lacking anything compared to my lossless ripped and bought files playing from the USB port..

Apart from people's ears discerning things differently, it clearly depends on the rest of the system including room)

Henk Molenaar posted:

Now you are talking!

For me Naim's choise of streaming providers is a mystery.............Qobuz is one of the most serious and enthousiastic and passionated  streaming providers with a good internet side with interesting information and tests and not to forget a lot of 24 bits HIGH RES cd's for sale.......and that where it is all about isn't it...........

I buy from them (downloads not CDs), but have no interst in streaming. To check  out possible new music I find the likes of Spotisy, uTube, and artists' samples quite usable.

Henk Molenaar posted:

Does anyone know if Qobuz wil be integrated into the Naim software for streaming with my N272.

Before I used Qobuz with my Bluesound box, but now I have to use Tidal....., a lot of rap music etc, but I really mis the real Qobuz music passion!!!!

Come on Naim, as a serious music lover,  please integrate Qobuz in your application!!

Henk, I don’t know about Qobuz music passion, but my customer experience has been awful, in respect of downloads. When things go wrong, which they often do, the response is pathetic. There would appear to be no customer support at weekends, which is probably when most of us need it, and the arrogance when they finally communicate is unparalleled. HDtracks has, by comparison, a perfect interface to the customer. By that I mean that one never needs to contact them, because it just works!

I’ve only had an issue manually downloading monster stuff, like the Lou Reed collection, and then I use the Windows app, which just works.

I have to agree with David O’H about customer experience with downloads,  Qobuz is way off the mark.  Best by far is HighResAudio,  HDTracks in UK & USA is good for service but bottom of the list with pricing which is madness.

It's a pity to hear about the the bad customer experience, I always use the Qobuz downloader which works fine for me.  Maybe the English language is still a problem for the Qobuz helpdesk?........but I also like HighResAudio to download cd's, works fine, and I can live with Tidal and ofcourse with my private Melco with my own preferred music and don't forget to listen (and sponsor....) to Radio Paradise during the day, they do a super music job!!!  

Enjoy weekend!!

Timo posted:

I have to agree with Henk -- it is a mystery to me why one wouldn't support the only streaming service that offers hi-res music... Instead of Waitrose streaming quality, we get the Aldi of streaming -- Spotify...  

I thought Tidal streams hi-res music too with an appropriate plan?

I too would love Qobuz integrated - mainly as I really want to upgrade to Sublime+ but as I cannot easily get gapless playback without purchasing and playing locally from a NAS I'm reluctant to do so.

I'm probably spending more purchasing hi-res audio from them than that upgrade would cost but at least I get what I want that way without extra apps on iOS/mac OS which don't help anyway (I cannot do gapless to a Nova using Audirvana).

I think HH may be correct that we're best using streaming for auditioning audio where absolute quality doesn't matter and buy those and stream locally from a solid performing NAS or computer.

We have to remember that not so long ago Qobuz was in administration until Xandrie invested heavily in it, so they may be struggling to strike up partnerships if hardware manufacturers don't want to risk a service going under after they invest time supporting it.

If the Qobuz app on mac OS/iOS  supported  UPnP playback of cached non-purchased audio that would be a real plus as I don't like Airplay.

Hello Alley Cat,

if you are purchasing so many hires albums the sublim abo might be interesting even without using streaming. Many albums are 3 or more € cheaper for abo subscribers. Some boxes 10 to 20€ or more.

So if you are interested in streaming, it might be only a small additional charge for the abo than you spend money today.

Gert

Qobuz is very part of European. It never made is way to Denamrk, even though it was announced 3 or 4 years ago. Qobuz also seems to be good at being at the brink of bankrupcy from time to time, so not a player you as a company want to invest a lot of money in with expensive integration. Unless you are using the old server platforms there are ways to get Qobuz working on both the old and new streaming platform, and if you want Qobuz it is clear that it is not natively supported when you go out and by a Naim streamer of any sort.  

Claus

gert posted:

Hello Alley Cat,

if you are purchasing so many hires albums the sublim abo might be interesting even without using streaming. Many albums are 3 or more € cheaper for abo subscribers. Some boxes 10 to 20€ or more.

So if you are interested in streaming, it might be only a small additional charge for the abo than you spend money today.

Gert

Thanks Gert

I've had the basic Sublime since it came out - the discounts are significant as you suggest, on most but not all titles.

Not sure if I'm on some kind of legacy annual rate offer but my renewal is about £60 less than for a new Sublime member, however upgrade to Sublime + would cost the difference between what I pay currently and a full Sublime+ membership so I'd potentially lose that annual discount it seems.

Qobuz could do with a family subscription too I feel.

Claus-Thoegersen posted:

Qobuz is very part of European. It never made is way to Denamrk, even though it was announced 3 or 4 years ago. Qobuz also seems to be good at being at the brink of bankrupcy from time to time, so not a player you as a company want to invest a lot of money in with expensive integration. Unless you are using the old server platforms there are ways to get Qobuz working on both the old and new streaming platform, and if you want Qobuz it is clear that it is not natively supported when you go out and by a Naim streamer of any sort.  

Claus

I think Xandrie seems to have given a fair financial backing to Qobuz - the problem is we don't know how well it's doing and if the owners think it's not doing well enough they could pull the plug on the financial backing.

One thing regarding the administration situation 2 years ago before they were bought by Xandrie is it seems they had kept funds from annual Sublime subscriptions somehow separate and would have been in a position to refund customers to some extent.  Glad it never came to that.

Obsydian posted:

Hungryhalibut posted:

Yes, but Qobuz is very European, while Tidal is more worldwide. I don’t really think it’s worth getting very excited about any of these streaming services. The sound quality fallls well short of music streamed from a server, and to my mind it’s a waste of a Naim system to have either Tidal or Qobuz as a prime source. They are great for exploration and checking out things before you buy, but for serious listening, they are a non starter. 

I'd disagree, i find Tidal superb (I download the majority of what I listen to regularly) and not lacking anything compared to my lossless ripped and bought files playing from the USB port.

Add to that the shear convenience and portability.

This is my experience as well. Tidal sounds great and indistinguishable from local rips to my ears.

That being said I too would love to have Qobuz integrated on my NDX. Several vendors offer both Qobuz and Tidal (Burmester, T+A) in their streaming solutions but they are indeed continental European ones.

But somehow the experience with Tidal Integration (vs Spotify which is effectively an add on) has been painful for NAIM and most likely a deterrent for similar endeavors with others like Qobuz.  

IMO Qobuz does sound excellent on my streamer, which happens to support Qobuz natively.

And I think that, regarding classical music, Qobuz is currently far better than any other streaming service I know of. Plus they offer proper high res streaming and not this weird MQA.

So I can understand the OP's wish to have native Qobuz support in his 272.

But AFAIK, Naim's legacy products were based on streaming modules from 3rd parties, which cared more for Spotify and on which Naim probably had little influence. Let's hope that Naim's new streaming platform will give Naim more flexibility and that it eventually will have native Qobuz support.

jfritzen posted:

But AFAIK, Naim's legacy products were based on streaming modules from 3rd parties, which cared more for Spotify and on which Naim probably had little influence. Let's hope that Naim's new streaming platform will give Naim more flexibility and that it eventually will have native Qobuz support.

Naim developed their streaming platform quite a long time ago (the original Uniti was released in 2009) when web streaming services were in their infancy, and not widely used. Adding support for Spotify, then Tidal, took a considerable amount of effort, and it was clear that as these services evolved, and new ones became popular, the complications of continuing native support for more of them would be very time consuming, expensive, and ultimately, unsustainable for a relatively small company like Naim. Thus their decision to add native Chromecast support to the new platform, enabling access to a much wider range of services than Naim could ever hope to support natively. 

ChrisSU posted:

jfritzen posted:

But AFAIK, Naim's legacy products were based on streaming modules from 3rd parties, which cared more for Spotify and on which Naim probably had little influence. Let's hope that Naim's new streaming platform will give Naim more flexibility and that it eventually will have native Qobuz support.

Naim developed their streaming platform quite a long time ago (the original Uniti was released in 2009) when web streaming services were in their infancy

But was this Naim's own platform? I understand it was sourced in from BridgeCo?

jfritzen posted:

 

But AFAIK, Naim's legacy products were based on streaming modules from 3rd parties, which cared more for Spotify and on which Naim probably had little influence. Let's hope that Naim's new streaming platform will give Naim more flexibility and that it eventually will have native Qobuz support.

not really, the streaming is simply an HTTP media transfer of a specific codec.. ie FLAC for Qobuz and Tidal and Ogg Vorbis for Spotify.

Henk Molenaar posted:

It's a pity to hear about the the bad customer experience, I always use the Qobuz downloader which works fine for me.  Maybe the English language is still a problem for the Qobuz helpdesk?........but I also like HighResAudio to download cd's, works fine, and I can live with Tidal and ofcourse with my private Melco with my own preferred music and don't forget to listen (and sponsor....) to Radio Paradise during the day, they do a super music job!!!  

Enjoy weekend!!

Henk, customer service is the same in any language. It listens and responds. Qobuz doesn’t. 

I would share the good experience  which others have had with Highresaudio, but HDtracks USA is most consistent for me in terms of early availability of new material and discount offers which are pretty keen now that the Dollar has been heading south for a while.  HDtracks UK seems to be way off on pricing?

I just buy from whichever has the album I want at the best price - and it is interesting how different prices can be! (I don't buy enough from Qobuz to justify a Sublime subscription).

Yup,  same here (or is that hear?) Qobuz Sublime is a non starter for me,  I shop around,  HRA, Qobuz, HDT, Sound Liaison & other Euro sites & a few US.   Agreed HDT (USA) can have some good pricing,  unlike the HDT (UK) where I've seen 10 (£&$) between them (madness),  but watch the currency conversion fee with CC's. 

Qobuz plans on offering their service in the USA in 2018.

https://www.rtbf.be/culture/po...tats-unis?id=9772232

Since the USA is a big market, maybe now Naim will add Qobuz to their streamers? I would very much like to see Qobuz functionality added to my Naim ND5 XS. 

After waiting 4 years on the Qobuz integration, I have sold my UQ2 and NAP100. I’ve now a bluesound streamer, a chord DAC, and 2 Hypex mono blocks and off course Qobuz Sublime+.

Their collection and SQ suits me better. Would Naim integrate Qobuz in their new uniti products I would opt for the NOVA, but for now I’m quitte happy with my current setup.

Best