Uniti Nova or Atom + NAP 250 (Non-DR)?

My suggestion is that you avoid making a rushed decision, take your time, and have a proper listen to both options before you spend the money. My gut feeling is that getting the Nova would be the way to go, but a rushed decision based on other people’s opinions with different rooms and speakers won’t help. 

Chrissu, thanks for your reply.  I would have preferred to have had the chance to listen to both systems but unfortunately this doesn't look likely for me this month.  And with used gear there's always the FOMO syndrome (fear of missing out)!  It's been a mixed bag for me with used gear.  On a few occasions I have rued missing out on a good deal but on many others I've been lucky not to have gone in.  I haven't decided either way on this particular choice and may just also wait it out but would hate to hear later on that the Atom and Nap was a great combo! :-) 

What is the driver for you. You mention simplicity yet are considering the Uniti plus a power amp. I always thought the appeal of these was more it's a one box solution.

If space isn't a constraint then consider the separates range which are also a better match aesthetically. As Chris says, take your time 

James

If you liked what the Atom did with the Focals, I would be going for the Nova, which is like an Atom but a lot better. I really wouldn’t start matching an Atom with a 250 unless it is  your aim to get a 272 or other separate preamp and streamer. 

James, thanks for your reply.  The driver for me now really is the offer on the used Atom+NAP 250 and additionally the requirement to have a reasonably future-proof streaming solution.  The new Uniti all-in-ones offer the latter but at the same time I also don't have an issue having 2 boxes unless so can consider the atom+NAP 250 as far as space is concerned.  Of course, if I can get equal/better with just one box then that would be preferable.  I couldn't find enough information on how different the amplifier sections between the Nova the NAP 250 and how they compare. 

I'm not sure if I'm thinking about this the right way but I guess the main question for me is whether the Nova is as capable as the NAP 250 as an amplifier.  This is of course with the assumption that the significant difference between the Nova and the Atom lies in the amp section and not elsewhere (DAC etc.).     

Hungryhalibut - just saw your reply after posting the previous one and thanks for posting. 

The consideration for me is that I can get the used Atom+NAP 250 combo for about 60% of the price of the Nova.  So in this scenario are the differences between the two (Nova vs. Atom+NAP 250)  enough (if any difference at all!) to justify the price difference.  I do understand of course that value is fairly subjective but I'm curious to hear opinions of people who have had experience with these systems and can share their thoughts. 

I have a Nova and was always looking to add a 250dr in a year or so, and then perhaps the new streaming architecture would be making its way to the classic line, new 272 etc. After 2 weeks of Nova, my dealer had a 250 dr second hand, could not refuse it. It tightened things up, more dynamics etc.

This weekend, I pulled the 250dr ( will be replaced by 300dr, I know it’s a mullet). So I am now playing my Nova for the first time with it fully run in ( bought it September). It’s a really great all round amp and very musical, wife actually preferred it to the Nova/250dr. I would stick with a Nova unless you are like me have decided on a list of future upgrades. On the other hand I have had the 250dr for a few months and will not lose money on it.

The review & testing in 'HiFi World' was very positive towards Atom as a package but was not so complimentary over the digital performance with an "uninspiring 106dB dynamic range"  & called that section "budget".   So for something more future proof - as you say - I would hold on a bit & have a rethink.    Nova+250 is a bit of an odd mix,  I would just go for Nova.

There will always be another ‘deal’, rushing to catch the latest one has proved to be an expensive mistake for many, so I would still say take your time and make the right choice. 

This is a very interesting question and one I wish I'd tested!  

I initially got an Atom (impulsively as in stock at the dealer's store when the Nova wasn't) but it was RMA'd due to a display fault.  

I took the opportunity to A/B Atom vs Nova a few weeks later with my old Epos speakers which are not the lightest load to drive.  I felt the Atom was struggling at low volumes with these, but was extremely musical and enjoyable nonetheless, great value for the price.

Swapping for the Nova at the demo it was apparent the Nova had a lot more detail and better soundstaging.

I opted for the Nova at double the price (plus) over the Atom as it seemed more capable overall and rather than a living room lifestyle system I though the Nova might replace some older components in the home theatre/music room.

The real question is what made the Nova better?  Was it simply better power amp circuitry or is there a big difference in the pre-amp/digital processing between the two as well?

If it were simply down to a difference in the power amp section (ignoring extra inputs), then logically if you have an existing/older power amp then Atom+NAP250 might be as good or better than a Nova alone.  Trouble is we don't really know.

I dug out my old NAP 250's one is in need of service and audio glitches showed.  The 2nd NAP 250 (also quite old) gave more solid bass and authority but I'm not sure it was night and day difference, but I've gone back to Nova alone for 'domestic' reasons currently.  I never tried the Atom with the 250's.

Interestingly with the speakers you mention the web page suggests Star or Nova not Atom:

https://www.focal.com/en/home-...kers/kanta/kanta-no2

I recently went to my local dealer for a Naim event there and heard the Nova and Kanta together. Very impressive. Also on display was the Atom and Star. In conversation the addition of a power amp like NAC250DR was mentioned. Although possible and would be an improvement at the moment that is not really how Naim see the Uniti range being used. Can you buy the Atom without the 250? Nobody should have trouble selling a NAP250 on its own.

Thanks again for all the responses.  

@G Warminger - the seller is not keen to sell just the Atom without the NAP 250.  I also don't think I quite follow why that would be preferable.  I believe the Atom by itself will not be enough and will be greatly improved with support from a power amp.  Are you recommending combining the Atom (either now or later on) with a better amp than the NAP250 (non-DR) that is currently the option I'm considering?

@Alley Cat - I wish you'd tested the Atom and the NAP 250 :-)   You've mentioned that adding the old NAP 250 improved the bass and authority, would this then imply that it's a better amp than the Nova's amp?  However, since you've also mentioned that the old NAP250 + Nova was not a night and day difference over just the Nova then it would seem likely that the Atom+old NAP250 combo is NOT going to be better than the Nova?

The advice you are getting from several people is that the Nova would be a better bet than an Atom as it’s better all round; its streamer, its dac, its preamp and its power amp. All the Atom/250 would do is give you a worse streamer, dac and preamp, but with a big amp on the end to make the worse streamer, dac and preamp louder. The biggest amp in the world cannot make up for what isn’t there in the first place. 

That’s the advice. But if you are fixed on getting the Atom/250 solely because it’s cheap, then ignore the advice and get it.

Another vote for the Nova from me. I have had mine for several weeks after having had a SN2 previously and I am very pleased with the sound and the flexibility of music choices. I now run mine with a 250DR but I don’t think this makes much more than a small improvement in my modest listening room. However, my long term goal is to get the replacement 272 with the new streaming platform when available to pair with the 250DR and then run the Nova bare in the family/tv room. The Atom is good at what it does but I don’t think an Atom/250 makes sense financially.

Bob

Why is the seller so keen to persuade you to buy both items together? Could it be that this combination is not working well for him? These are both very sought-after items on the used market, and he would almost certainly make more money by selling them separately. 

It's akin to putting old alloy wheels on a brand new car. The size doesn't really fit, but they are alloys, aren't they?

Just buy the Atom and enjoy it. Run it for 6-12 months and then see if you need more out of it. Not before.

Thanks again for the responses, much appreciated!

@Chrissu - that is a very good point and I won't go ahead with this without a long listening session (even if it is under different conditions at the seller's place - speakers/room etc.) .

[@mention:15504822881586894] - the Atom/NAP250 DOES make financial sense for me since I'm getting them at roughly 60% of the price of a new Nova.

@Hungryhalibut - you've put it rather bluntly but you're right, the price of the used Atom+NAP250 is a strong consideration for kind of rushing into this as I don't have an opportunity to listen to the Nova until Jan.  While most people have said the Nova is clearly better, I was hoping for any info on whether most of the improvement could be attributed to the non-Amp parts (DAC/Preamp/Streamer) or to the Amp section.  If it was primarily the amp section then I'm hoping :-) that adding the NAP250 would bring the difference down a bit and make my decision much easier given the cost saving. 

From what I gather from the comments so far, both the Atom and the Nova aren't really meant or suited to being supported by added amplification and in that scenario it would make more sense to go with the Nova.  I think at this stage I'll try and get an extended listening session with the Atom+Nap 250 and see if there's a very clear and noticeable improvement over just the Atom and also decide if I still want to wait for the Nova.  

I think in some ways Naim have confused us with the new Uniti range.

The Unitis are moving Naim in a different direction to more all-in-one box 'just add speakers' type systems.  There must be huge market potential for this these days, or maybe they're testing the water after success with Musos on the high street.

Are the pre-outs there as upgrade options for 'lifestyle purchasers' or to appease older customers who may want to use their potentially better separates in conjunction with them to upgrade performance.  I've not really looked but does Naim specifically suggest upgrading the Atom with a particular power amp, and if so what spec is the minimum to get a tangible upgrade from the Atom's (or Nova's) own power amp - is it a NAP 100, NAP 250, a DR model???

There are so many things in a system that can work synergistically or negatively together when you consider source/pre/power amps, interconnects, speakers and cables, stands/supports and individual room characteristics let alone listening position.

I just listened to an album on low volume on the Nova and thought it was a bit muddled/indistinct, hooked up the 250 and immediately thought there were more layers of sound which I could better distinguish from each other.  Swapped to another track and using the 250 now seemed to be very boomy with lack of control of bass (power over finesse) which disappeared switching to the Nova amp alone - the 250 needs service in fairness but it may be horses for courses with older external power amps added whereas the Nova pre/power sections will undoubtedly have been developed to work synergistically. More finesse seemed to give better detail though not necessarily separation.  I've played tracks which sound fatiguing on the Nova alone, don't via the 250 and vice versa.  It's all a compromise in one way or another, some of it may be my old Epos speakers (time to get the SBLs out of storage).

In retrospect I probably now wish there was a Uniti style updated version of the Nac-N 272 as ultimately I will probably be looking to upgrade to such a system with separate DR amplification when the time is right with Nova relegated to lounge or bedroom.

It may at this stage be worth you considering where you're ultimately intending to go with Naim stuff, and if you've not listened at a dealership it would probably be sensible to do so to see and hear the options.

While I can see the Atom/250 might be seen as a good buy, it almost implies to me the Atom will be a stop-gap measure and you will want a better source with an external power amp, possibly Uniti Nova or otherwise at some stage - why is the owner getting rid of the Atom and 250?  Perhaps he wanted or would prefer a Nova?  Could be any number of reasons.  Assuming both are in good order they should have good re-sale value (also assume the 250 may be DR upgradable - mine sadly are not).

Atom and Nova have pre-out but the Nova has DIN not just phono out, and I'd imagine that the DIN out would be sonically better when partnered with a Naim power amp.

The market is still relatively in its infancy and though I'd considered a few streamers in recent years none had quite ticked the boxes though the more I think about it perhaps I wasn't looking at the options correctly.

Thanks for the feedback Alley Cat!  Is it possible to upgrade a non-DR 250 to DR?

I finally went ahead and bought the Atom and NAP 250.  I had a brief listen at the sellers place and the Atom clearly sounded better with the NAP250.  In the end I figured I'd go in now with the lower outlay (got the Atom, NAP 250, Audioquest Yukon Naim XLR-RCA cable, an old audioquest speaker cable as well as an Audio Physic Tempo speaker for GBP 2000).  Since this was less than half the price of a Nova thought I'd take the chance and spend some time with this before deciding on whatever comes next (hopefully some nicer speakers like the Focal Kantas!).  

Now that I've entered the world of Naim, was hoping for some advice on a few things:

1. The seller included an old pair of audioquest speaker cables but I'm not sure which ones they are.  I read reports about how NAim advices only NAC A5 cable for their amps and using other cables could potentially cause serious issues to the amp.  Appreciate any advice on whether the NAC A5 cable is a worthwhile investment or other alternatives (hopefully cheaper) I could consider.

2. The seller was using an audioquest Vodka ethernet cable to connect the Atom to his router but I have just used a basic ethernet cable (which I got with the Google mesh wifi system I bought recently).  Are there any worthwhile benefits to be had by changing the ethernet cable to a better one?

3. The Naim NAP 250 which is a 2012 model has the old power cord which is different from the new ones Naim have developed (which is supplied with the Atom).  Is there any reason to change this?

The complete setup sounded pretty good to me at the sellers place which helped me make the decision to buy it.  So far in my living room the sound is a bit brighter than it was at the sellers place.  I think of course this has to do with the room itself as the setup between our rooms was quite different - his was a large room where the speakers were brought way foward from all the walls.  In my room the speakers are just about 1.5' away from the back wall and there's a lot more glass windows in my room (which I cover using cloth blinds but still).  The only other difference in the setup was he was using the Audioquest Vodka ethernet cable and some Vertere speaker cables which he claims cost him more than GBP 700.

I am inclined to not make any changes immediately and rather spend some time with this system so I can then also be able to clearly tell the difference with any changes but am a bit concerned about the speaker cable and possible damage to the amp so appreciate any advice on that.

Good decision not to make changes straight away. Get the system set up, and just enjoy it for now. Experiment with setup, speaker positioning and room layout/furnishings. Then consider making changes, and you’ll be in a better position to evaluate then. 

The 250 can be upgraded to DR at the Naim factory. It will also need a recap/service when it’s about 10 years old, so you may want to combine the two. 

I would certainly consider trying NACA5 to be sure that the amp is performing as intended, although it’s not the only good option. Power cord upgrades are the icing on the cake, I would leave it for now. Likewise Ethernet cables. 

[@mention:36201736949470193], thanks a lot for the advice. So you don’t think the speaker cables will cause any issues to the amp and I can wait to try the NACA5?  Also, If I do decide to invest in the NACA5 cable can I also use them with other non-Naim amps later on down the line without any issues? 

I tried swapping try Nova power lite with the older standard Naim power cord that came with the 250dr. I really could not tell the difference. The old power cord and plug look a little agricultural, but they were designed, made for the purpose by Naim. But no harm in swapping over some time in the future. But let things settle down first, and start to enjoy a great purchase.

Rsure posted:

[@mention:36201736949470193], thanks a lot for the advice. So you don’t think the speaker cables will cause any issues to the amp and I can wait to try the NACA5?  Also, If I do decide to invest in the NACA5 cable can I also use them with other non-Naim amps later on down the line without any issues? 

Have you read this? https://forums.naimaudio.com/to...-for-naim-amplifiers

If you’re concerned about the cable you have now, give some A5 a try. Then at least you will be sure the 250 isn’t being compromised. 

Congratulations on your new gear, enjoy it.

You are correct that Naim recommend NAC-A5 - I'm not sure it's necessarily the best in a given system but it's what I'm currently using - as with all components they have different effects on sound quality.  I couldn't find my old A5 cable and got some different cable from the dealer to tide me over - when I actually found the A5 I was initially disappointed as detail disappeared and female vocals seemed too forced and in your face so to speak - I've swapped back and forth between the temporary cabe and the Naim and there are big differences in presentation, but ultimately I've plumped for the A5, and as I think one of the links above points out the amps were designed to run with such cable in order to almost 'directly take the power amp output to the speaker cables' - in other words the A5 is considered part of the amplification circuitry. It struck me  the other day playing a few new download purchases and listening form the opposite end of a knocked through Lounge that while my other cable had a 'nice' detailed sound, it was a bit apologetic and was a bit like having the radio on in the background, whereas the Naim cable revealed layered sounds better perhaps at the expense of detail elsewhere - hard to explain as most of this stuff is.

My 250s are around 25 and 20 years old and I was excited to hear about DR upgrades a few months ago, but alas mind are too old, but yours should be fine when the time comes.

As others have said I would not tinker with very specialist speaker/interconnect or mains power cords at this stage. 

Sort out good source/music catalogue, enjoy the Atom/250 combo and see what if anything you think is lacking in a few months then get advice from the folks here about the best upgrade path assuming you enjoy the Naim sound and want to spend more.

One think I think it's a shame the new Uniti series don't offer is the option for external PSUs which I felt were one of the best ways of significantly improving the sound quality of my older separates components.

Alley Cat posted:

One think I think it's a shame the new Uniti series don't offer is the option for external PSUs which I felt were one of the best ways of significantly improving the sound quality of my older separates components.