NAC A5 – What Did I do Wrong?

Posted by: georgecart on 07 December 2017

Having dreamed of being a Naim owner for many years, a couple of months ago I threw caution to the wind and bought a used Supernait 2 from a Naim dealer, a significant upgrade from my Arcam Solo and my biggest Hi Fi purchase ever.

Excitedly I set it up, plugged in my existing speaker cables (Audioquest Slate) and played some of my favourite vinyl on my turntable. It sounded incredible. A couple of years ago I upgraded to a Clearaudio Concept Wood from an entry-level turntable and a veil was lifted from the music. Switching to the Supernait 2 was the same again. The music became even more engaging, another veil lifted, subtle aspects of the music I had never heard before I heard for the first time, the stereo imaging and soundstaging was incredible. I was hooked. I played records with my wife and she was hooked away too, all was good with the new purchase.

I read a lot of views of the right speaker cable to use with the Supernait, many from this forum. The NAC A5 was almost universally praised so I thought I would complete my upgrade with the ideal cables also. The Supernait 2 had already blown the budget for me, so I found an older used 3.5 M pair of unterminated NAC A5 online and bought them. The dealer that supplied the Supernait gave me (FOC) a pair of the Naim terminal plugs for the amplifier end and a set of Deltron plugs for the speakers. I soldered the Naim plugs and fitted the Chord Company plugs and replaced the Audioquest and sat down with the same favourite vinyl. Unfortunately I was very disappointed. Almost all of the sonic benefits of the Supernait 2 were lost. The newly found details were lost, stereo imaging took a backward step, the music somehow less engaging.   I checked that I had not wired or installed the cables out of phase, I had not. Eventually I switched cables back, normality was restored. Many years of being a fan of Hi Fi has lead me to follow my ears and that’s what I did.

 I am more than happy with the Supernait 2, but puzzled about the seeming lack of performance of the NAC A5. At this stage I am making the assumption that I have done something wrong somewhere along the way, the question is what. For background, here is my system:

Clearaudio Concept Wood with Clearaudio Performer V2 cartridge

Graham Slee Reflex M phono pre-amp

Van Den Hull D102-III between phono pre-amp and Supernait 2

Dynaudio Audience 52 speakers, stand mounted.

 The NAC A5 is older and one run has the Naim text and direction arrows almost completely worn away, so I guessed the direction based on the markings that were left. The other run has clear arrows on, which I installed towards the speaker. I am not an expert in soldering, at the amplifier end, based on the photos I have seen from the internet, my termination was not the prettiest, but by far not the worst.   The dealer said that he thought the freebie speaker plugs may be rhodium plated, my recent research says they are nickel, which I suspect isn’t ideal.  So the question is what next? I am keen to get to the bottom of the problem so I can hear what the NAC A5 can do.   Any advice?

 

George

Posted on: 09 December 2017 by kevin J Carden

George, if dealer Steve has a set of NACA5 cables he uses for demo (assume he does) could he lend them to you to try at home? If they also sound bad to you then you’ll know you don’t like NACA5 (you won’t be alone, even amongst Naim devotees) and can happily stick with the AudioQuest. 

Posted on: 09 December 2017 by yeti42

Someone, I think in the expensive cable thread has claimed that the type of solder used is important. I happen to have a set of A5 to solder and a reel of thin diameter lead based RS components solder of the sort that used to used for component replacement on a circuit board before the lead ban, is this suitable if not legal? Otherwise what is the best sort to use for NACA5? 

Posted on: 09 December 2017 by ChrisSU
yeti42 posted:

Someone, I think in the expensive cable thread has claimed that the type of solder used is important. I happen to have a set of A5 to solder and a reel of thin diameter lead based RS components solder of the sort that used to used for component replacement on a circuit board before the lead ban, is this suitable if not legal? Otherwise what is the best sort to use for NACA5? 

Lead based solder is easier to use, so I would stick with what you’ve got. If it’s very thin, twist two or more strands together to get a decent thickness. Just wash your hands very thoroughly afterwards, or avoid touching the solder altogether. 

Posted on: 09 December 2017 by The Strat (Fender)

You didn’t do anything wrong - you just prefer a different cable with your system.  

Regards,

Lindsay

Posted on: 09 December 2017 by Adam Meredith
yeti42 posted:

I happen to have a set of A5 to solder and a reel of thin diameter lead based RS components solder of the sort that used to used for component replacement on a circuit board before the lead ban, is this suitable if not legal? Otherwise what is the best sort to use for NACA5? 

 

If you're not working day-in-day-out with the stuff or eating it - probably (I speak as an ordinary citizen here) fine.

That said, you'd be wary if you'd seen the awful effects it had on those in the wiring department,

Posted on: 09 December 2017 by Lewis

Lead based solder gives off very noxious fumes when melting so be sure to use extraction if you go down this route! I always use lead free silver solder on my Naca, works a treat.  Get a decent iron and it will melt anything!  I still think you should give it some time to 'burn in' and see how you feel in a few weeks as I said before.  If you still don't like it, then we can conclude that this combo of electronics and cable perhaps don't create the sound that pleases you, in which case revert to your AQ cables.

Posted on: 09 December 2017 by Innocent Bystander
Lewis posted:

Lead based solder gives off very noxious fumes when melting so be sure to use extraction if you go down this route! I always use lead free silver solder on my Naca, works a treat.  Get a decent iron and it will melt anything!  I still think you should give it some time to 'burn in' and see how you feel in a few weeks as I said before.  If you still don't like it, then we can conclude that this combo of electronics and cable perhaps don't create the sound that pleases you, in which case revert to your AQ cables.

Fumes from soldering with lead-based solder are no more toxic than non-lead solder: lead is not appreciably volatile at soldering temperatures however the flux used, notably with rosin-cored solder, is harmful. The primary reason for phasing out of lead based solder is the presence of toxic lead in waste when the electronic items reach end of life.

Posted on: 09 December 2017 by Huge

Occasional exposure to the lead vapour from soft solder is so minimal as to be almost irrelevant.

Having said that I find SN/Ag/Cu eutectic solder is easier to use as the working time before significant oxidation occurs is greater, hence more reliable joints on things (like cables!) that aren't going to be damaged by a little more heat.

Posted on: 10 December 2017 by Adam Meredith
Huge posted:

Occasional exposure to the lead vapour from soft solder is so minimal as to be almost irrelevant.

Having said that I find SN/Ag/Cu eutectic solder is easier to use as the working time before significant oxidation occurs is greater, hence more reliable joints on things (like cables!) that aren't going to be damaged by a little more heat.

I don't know what solder Naim adopted when they had to change over to lead free but previously they eschewed silver solder. Not sure why (assumed sound quality - it might have been cost) but I certainly used to advise against it.

Perhaps this is not so now.

Posted on: 10 December 2017 by Stephen Tate

I have found that the best solder to use is a 60/40 -Tin/Lead alloy, such as the stuff in Adam's attachment above. Silver or lead free solders just do not sound right with NAC A5 to my ears, lending it a brittle, mechanical, unbalanced or even a harsh/fatiguing 2D sound. The quality of flow (speed) on how the solder is applied and the amount will also make a difference.

I am not claiming to be an expert in here any way, i'm just merely passing on my 'desperate' experiences with which I accumulated  in the past that hark back to the old 'active' days when I was trying to get my old system to sing, when, no matter what I did it just didn't sound right - until, that is, the NAC A5 was happy.

Of course with my newer 'lesser' system now on hand,  past experiences have paid off and I can now just sit back and really enjoy the music without no silly itching going on.

Posted on: 10 December 2017 by yeti42

I remember someone at the Superline launch tour (it may even have been Steve Sells) saying Naim had had the devil of a job maintaining sound quality when they had to stop using lead solder, he didn’t reveal how they solved it however. Looks like leaded is the best option. 

I have an 80W Weller iron of the sort where the temperature is set by the tip and I have the hottest tip available and it’s wide enough. I’ve done enough soldering over the years of the tin it first variety but I’m told that won’t work for fitting the Naim plugs. I’ve been shown what to do but the type of solder wasn’t mentioned.

The cable and iron are in our flat in France but the dealer over there couldn’t solder the Naim plugs and put gold plated things on both ends. This system, CDX2/282/Hi/250-2 and Thiel CS1.6, which was my old main system before upgrading, minus the vinyl front end and 555ps, doesn’t sound right at the moment. Cable dressing is fine and it’s on Fraim Lite. I might as well put the propper plugs on and as a last resort lift the speaker cables off the marble tiles though with what I haven’t worked out yet. If it still doesn’t work (and it only gets turned on for a week at a time so will never be optimum) it might be time to consider trading for something that warms up faster. 

This was meant to be a quick interjection on an aspect of NACA5 termination, not a takeover of the thread but I hope something useful to the OP will lurk in here somewhere.