Swiss Army Knife Nac 272 - why do people sell it?

Max_B posted:

BTW, here we are talking of the 272 again. The really funny thing is, that this hype about it was somehow started by HH, who enjoys a large amount of credit from this audience (flocks need a shepherd, after all) but he's usually the most susceptible about the subject. Why? As I wrote, why happiness and paranoia together?

Nigel, this has nothing to do with our friendship, but may our Lord and Naim release a 372 soon, so its obsolete father will be forgotten for a little while.

M.

I have no paranoia about the 272 whatsoever, and I’m still as delighted with it as I was when I bought it in summer 2015. 

My original response was, I accept, slightly misjudged and for that I apologise to Ardbeg10y. It’s just an impossible question to answer, and indeed Ardbeg gives a few potential answers himself. 

I certainly would not credit myself with any role as a shepherd; I was simply one of the early adopters and was very pleased with it and think it provides great sound for a not too unreasonable cost. I’ve never puffed it up to a position that it does not deserve. It’s been hugely successful for Naim, and the fact that there are lots of satisfied owners, including a good number on this very Forum, is surely something to be applauded. 

No problems, HH.

It is snowing here and I feel the need to listen to some 'O Magnum Mysterium' to bring early Advent / Christmas feelings and the unanswerable magic of the 272 together.

That sounds rather lovely. I was listening to a new album by the Sollazzo Ensemble on Linn Records earlier, which I think you might like. Enjoy the snow. 

Ardbeg10y posted:

No worries on the comment of HH, absolutely fine.

It is indeed a simple question, which can be answered by an obvious answer.

Simple questions do exist and they need to be asked, if we did not, the Roman Catholic church was still ruling the world.

There are "simple questions" and "simple-minded questions".  If a relatively new item is common in the second hand market, it may be reflection of its quality or just that lots of them have been bought.  Others have made this point too.

But ...

I understand why people part exchange a Nap 100 by a Nap 200 or so. Or move up from nac 202 to nac 282, or go from SN to separates. Or change Naim for another Brand. It's all logical from hifi perspective - if 'logical' is a word which can be used in context of hifi.

Then there are non-hifi related options, like people having debts which needs to be sorted, divorce, etc ...

I believe that the 272 is indeed hyped - read all topics on this forum. But this hype is for a reason, and in such cases a hype is no problem. Bitcoin is a real hype - there is no real value behind it. If the hype is used to leverage the success of the 272: good job!

To me the word "hype"  carries an implication of exaggeration so I am not surprised that those who have expressed their pleasure in this component read this as implying they have over-praised their purchases.  I suspect that you did not intend this.

By the way, it's not just bitcoin that has "no real value behind it".  Fiat money, which we all use for daily transactions also has no intrinsic value.  (Sorry for wandering off into ECON101.)

Some did already post these options on this topic or elsewhere.

But say one buys a 272 and feels the itch to move up then the PS / Nap upgrades are most obvious and can bring one to say 252 level.

Despite this most obvious upgrade option, it seems that quite frequently people want to get rid of their 272 within the first year. These young 272 pops up often.

How do you know that "quite frequently people want to get rid of their 272" and how frequent is "quite frequent"?  More than other boxes, other hifi manufacturers?  If so, how do you know?  Where is the hard statistical evidence for this assertion?  

Maybe the original question needs to remain unanswered because the - correct - answers do not satisfy me and the question is just an exposure of unbelieve.

Sorry, I'm not sure I understand this sentence.

If you really are considering buying a 272 this year, is not the obvious move to just go and listen to one?  (And soon, there's not much of 2017 left!)  All I can do is relate my own experience which is that moving from a system based, like yours, round a Supernait 1 (with HiCap DR and fed optically from a MacMini through an nDAC/XPS DR) to my current one (see profile) was a large, for me, step up in sound quality and greatly enhanced my enjoyment of the music.  I spend many more hours listening to my new system than the old one, which may indicate an extra degree of musical communication.  Of course, tastes, ears and rooms differ and your preferences may lead you down a different path, but please don't let the number of used boxes for sale put you off an audition.  If you do upgrade I wish you an enjoyable journey whichever path you eventually take.

It's snowing here too so I'm off to listen to my HD download of Magnum Mysterium as performed by Merton College Choir in their new Christmas Album.

Roger

Max_B posted:

P.P.S.S. Swiss Army Knives are usually useless: who has actually opened a can of beans or saved his own life in a wood with one? They only have a beautiful point of red. And their scissors are not even good for nails.

Well I have successfully used the can opener on one and cut my nails too.  Oh and it's painted blue.  Admittedly, I haven't saved my life in a wood but then as an old fart with a 272 I probably just imagined it.

Roger

Gazza posted:

I think we may have a fair wait for a 372. More likely a 500 series streamer and then the normal Naim trickle down of technology into for some of us, more affordable streamers.

A new streamer is coming that is fact, Will it be 500s or statement level I don’t know

my bet on statement

Max_B posted:

P.P.S.S. Swiss Army Knives are usually useless: who has actually opened a can of beans or saved his own life in a wood with one? They only have a beautiful point of red. And their scissors are not even good for nails.

I once constructed a bookshelf using only my SAK (the saw is a miniature dream), have opened many tins, picked many teeth and tweezered oft the vicious splinters of this cruel world  and the scissors are excellent for trimming joints.

The corkscrew’s very useful too.

Adam Meredith posted:

Max_B posted:

P.P.S.S. Swiss Army Knives are usually useless: who has actually opened a can of beans or saved his own life in a wood with one? They only have a beautiful point of red. And their scissors are not even good for nails.

I once constructed a bookshelf using only my SAK (the saw is a miniature dream), have opened many tins, picked many teeth and tweezered oft the vicious splinters of this cruel world  and the scissors are excellent for trimming joints.

Heating the blade on a gas ring ruins it however.

yeti42 posted:

Heating the blade on a gas ring ruins it however.

#hash?

Gazza posted:

I think we may have a fair wait for a 372. More likely a 500 series streamer and then the normal Naim trickle down of technology into for some of us, more affordable streamers.

We will never see another 500 series anything from Naim.  Just my prediction!

NickSeattle posted:

Itchy types buy hyped hi-fi, more than steady blokes like me, HH, and Hook.  Some, like us, stay put.  

No shame, either way.

Nick

Itchy types may buy hyped hi-fi, but it's steady blokes, like the ones mentioned, that hype hi-fi to the heavens.

Adam Meredith posted:

yeti42 posted:

Heating the blade on a gas ring ruins it however.

#hash?

It was a few decades ago.

The scissors came in handy for opening the nicotine patch sachets a little more recently.

Anther thought (back to the OP) is that 272 purchasers do indeed think ‘Blimey, if £3500 buys this level of sound quality then the next rung on the ladder must be out of this world’...Only to discover that it’s not.

And so the cycle of ‘sidegrade, upgrade, downgrade’ begins.

G

More than not the 272's I have seen for sale are from dissatisfied owners who have forked out the best part of £7,000 if you include a 250DR (at least two of the ads Ive seen have been for 272/250) expecting musical wonders (probably after reading this forum)  and for whatever reason didn't get what they expected.

I don't really believe the upgrade thing as upgrading from a 272 to a 282/NDX is an upgrade of nearly £5,000 I think they probably sold them and went with another brand Linn perhaps. 

If you drop in on a few other Hi-Fi fora there are lots of ex-Naim owners who for a multitude of reasons have moved on.  Inevitable.  

Bob the Builder posted:

More than not the 272's I have seen for sale are from dissatisfied owners who have forked out the best part of £7,000 if you include a 250DR (at least two of the ads Ive seen have been for 272/250) expecting musical wonders (probably after reading this forum)  and for whatever reason didn't get what they expected.

It's good to know these hypotheticals have no one to blame than themselves.

Adam Meredith posted:

Bob the Builder posted:

More than not the 272's I have seen for sale are from dissatisfied owners who have forked out the best part of £7,000 if you include a 250DR (at least two of the ads Ive seen have been for 272/250) expecting musical wonders (probably after reading this forum)  and for whatever reason didn't get what they expected.

It's good to know these hypotheticals have no one to blame than themselves.

I can’t help thinking that if they put in their ad that they’d bought an expensive combination and didn’t get the musical wonders they expected, they probably didn’t have the sales pitch quite right.

Eoink posted:

I can’t help thinking that if they put in their ad that they’d bought an expensive combination and didn’t get the musical wonders they expected, they probably didn’t have the sales pitch quite right.

I remember when I tried a Naim combination (42/110) at home (while working for Noel Cloney) - in place of my Meridian pre/power into Gales.

It was so much more satisfying that the Meridian (101/pair of 105s?) combination sat outside my room, even when the Naim had to be returned and I waited for my (Naim) order to arrive.

I sold the Meridian to an eager friend who asked why I was getting rid of it. I told him and yet he bought.

Adam Meredith posted:

Eoink posted:

I can’t help thinking that if they put in their ad that they’d bought an expensive combination and didn’t get the musical wonders they expected, they probably didn’t have the sales pitch quite right.

I remember when I tried a Naim combination (42/110) at home (while working for Noel Cloney) - in place of my Meridian pre/power into Gales.

It was so much more satisfying that the Meridian (101/pair of 105s?) combination sat outside my room, even when the Naim had to be returned and I waited for my (Naim) order to arrive.

I sold the Meridian to an eager friend who asked why I was getting rid of it. I told him and yet he bought.

You worked for Noel Cloney of Cloney Audio in Dublin? He's a real gent as well as Ivan, great shop, they have a spendor event on this weekend. 

Bob the Builder posted:

More than not the 272's I have seen for sale are from dissatisfied owners who have forked out the best part of £7,000 if you include a 250DR (at least two of the ads Ive seen have been for 272/250) expecting musical wonders (probably after reading this forum)  and for whatever reason didn't get what they expected.

It’s not just Naim ... there’s a good number of Devialet systems up for sale and second hand and ex-dem Linn Klimax Katalyst too!  I believe there may even be Chord DAVEs sold ex demo and second hand if you can imagine that!

badlands posted:

We will never see another 500 series anything from Naim.  Just my prediction!

They will venture into private jet installations, then we’ll all receive totally irrelevant emails informing us of their great achievements.

robert- posted:

You worked for Noel Cloney of Cloney Audio in Dublin? He's a real gent as well as Ivan, great shop, they have a spendor event on this weekend. 

Worked is too mild a word - the man is a slave driver and the destroyer of dreams.

I liked him immensely.

Quick anecdote:

Noel was a devil for a sale ( NOT    ) and it was quite common for me to lead a customer into a dem room to discover the (last in shop) Rega 2 which I'd hoped to play through Creek and MS speakers - had exited the shop with Noel's last client. We had to order Regas in bulk and they, swines, insisted on being paid proforma upfront. These two uncomfortable truths resulted in long, barren, periods without stock - hence the dem stuff disappearing.

One day I approached Noel with our dem Rega 2 and flipped it over. On the bottom I'd written a popular obscenity in large, indelible, letters.

"What have you done? We'll never be able to sell that!"

Job done.

Because for "only" about 20k (lower if you buy used) more or thereabouts, you can arrive at what many consider the end game with NDS/555/252/SC ??

Pssst! Anyone want to buy a pre loved 272, at an attractive price?

Actually, I love mine really, and it will probably never be for sale, as I am well aware of the cost of a significant upgrade.