Novice the streaming

Mike-B posted:

Innocent Bystander posted:

Or from a different angle why buy the ND5XS, when you could get better sound quality feeding the SPDIF output direct to a DAC such as n-DAC or Chord Hugo (apparently quite different presentations, it seems many preferring Hugo but some preferring nDAC...

Yes thats an alternative.  However for myself I prefer to KIS(S)    NDX with NAS & iRadio & whatever other streaming services all in one box & controlled from my iPad & the fantastic Naim app.    

My point was that to me Core into ND5XS doesn't seem the best approach: better options in my view would be NAS into ND5XS, which is cheaper, or Core into a DAC, which is better sound quality. All three are simple systems, though arguably NAS-ND5XS is the least simple.

NAS into NDX is another take on NAS-ND5XS, better sound quality but more costly, however from what people say might not be as good sound quality as Core-DAC

Simplest of course might be an Atom or Nova...

Innocent Bystander posted:

My point was that to me Core into ND5XS doesn't seem the best approach: better options in my view would be NAS into ND5XS, which is cheaper, or Core into a DAC, which is better sound quality. All three are simple systems, though arguably NAS-ND5XS is the least simple. 

I have not heard a Core myself,  but someone who has said he was not convinced that there is a difference or a difference worth the money.    Then reading the threads on the problems with Core,  it seems its not at all ready for someone venturing into streaming for the first time.    Whatever,  I still don't understand the need for such a device,  once the CD's are ripped its mostly redundant.   

I really don't understand why you say NAS-ND is the least simple,    my NAS-NDX is pure simplicity & convenience.

nimrodmr2p posted:

More comments and more complications

Someone really needs to sort this world out, has someone written the idiots guide to streaming

I can see me sticking with playing CDs at this rate (now I can see how the rebirth of vinyl got started)

That's one of the problems with asking on a forum. Have you got a good dealer who could take you through the steps, show you what you need, install it and get you going ?

If not, Linn has one of the best guides (IMHO) which a few other companies should really emulate for their streamers. 

If you google 'introduction to DS concepts Linn' then this will get you to the page. They have a whole knowledge base there covering, streaming, hardware needed, ripping etc. Well worth a read. 

It really is worth persevering as it's a great way of being able to access and enjoy your whole music collection. 

James

james n posted:

It really is worth persevering as it's a great way of being able to access and enjoy your whole music collection. 

And not forgetting that with a ND or other streaming player you also get 10's of thousand iRadio (webradio) stations & the web streaming services.

nimrodmr2p,

A few months ago I was in a position similar to yours, having no experience with streaming music at all. 

Visiting a dealer I noticed how convenient streaming could be, with an ipad and a NAC 272. I could see an advantage in reducing the number of cd's in our living room as well, and decided to get myself a streamer.

On the internet I found a s/h ND5SX at a reasonable price. So I had to do all the setup myself. I can assure you that setting up a basic solution is very easy.  I did it like this:

ND5SX was connected to router (with standard ethernet cable, wifi also possible) and to AUX on amp. Now internet radio was working. Downloaded Naim app from app store. Then with windows media player I ripped some cd's to wav files on a USB memory stick. This I inserted on the front of the ND5SX and the files were immediately available for streaming.  

This is all it takes to get started. I used this setup for about a month. 

Next, I added a basic NAS drive, 2 TB Seagate Personal Cloud (100£). Connecting to pc and setup was simple, following the included setup guide. When connected to the router the NAS drive automatically showed up on the ND5 (when selecting UPnP input), and I could stream the music from the NAS. 

Nothing so far should be too complicated to do yourself, and a setup like this is (IMHO) a very good place to start.  

 After this you may want to fine tune things. Going for a higher spec NAS, changing server software to Minimserver or Asset, install a dedicated cd ripping program, change ethernet cabling etc. etc. And optimize use of metadata info (artist, year etc) on your music files. Of course, the more you get right in the first place, the less you'll have to change things later. But that also makes it more complex to get started. 

There are many things you can do to tweak the setup, and reading on these pages about all the options could make things sound more complicated than they are/have to be. 

Claus

Mike-B posted:

Innocent Bystander posted:

My point was that to me Core into ND5XS doesn't seem the best approach: better options in my view would be NAS into ND5XS, which is cheaper, or Core into a DAC, which is better sound quality. All three are simple systems, though arguably NAS-ND5XS is the least simple. 

I have not heard a Core myself,  but someone who has said he was not convinced that there is a difference or a difference worth the money.    Then reading the threads on the problems with Core,  it seems its not at all ready for someone venturing into streaming for the first time.    Whatever,  I still don't understand the need for such a device,  once the CD's are ripped its mostly redundant.   

I really don't understand why you say NAS-ND is the least simple,    my NAS-NDX is pure simplicity & convenience.

Because  a network is less simple than an SPDIF cable - and going by the not infrequent calls for help, more prone to problems from other factors.

I'm with Claus, above.

Rip CDs to your PC for a start to get used to how that works. Windows Media Player will do a job, to get started. Rip to your local C: drive at first. Then try something like DBPowerAmp as a free trial and if you like it pay for the full-fat version. Try changing things to see how easy it is, e.g file names, tags (the values in album titles, composers, track names etc that you'll see when you play them). Download MP3Tag and see how easy it is to change individual track tags or whole albums' worth. It's free, and easy.

Once you've got a feel for it, probably an afternoon tbh, get a NAS (I too use the Seagate Personal Cloud), connect it to your router with its supplied Ethernet cable and find it in Windows Explorer as a netowrk drive. You can set it up via the Personal Cloud shortcut that opens its control panel. When you're happy, create a folder in the Public folder called Music (or some other suitable name) and move your ripped music files to that. You'll want a folder structure of Artist and within each artist folder the folders that contain your ripped albums. 

Once you've done that, connect your ND5XS to your network, install the Naim app on your phone / tablet and that's it - prod away, select whatever you want to hear and off you go. It really is easy to get going, and once you've got to that stage then you can start to experiment and change things as you'll have grasped it by then.

Good luck, have fun and enjoy. Btw the ND5XS is very good.

After another day or ringing around I am trying to make a decision to beat the price rise

I felt I was favouring the ND5 XS to go into my Nait XS however one dealer has suggested I go for the Atom streamer but feed it into the Nait Xs via the pre-amp out sockets. They feel the Atom streamer section is better but this way I get the clout of the XS over the Atom power amp section. Will this allow me to still select the CD player on my XS amp or do I feed it through the input section on the Atom

Any comments

nimrodmr2p posted:

After another day or ringing around I am trying to make a decision to beat the price rise

I felt I was favouring the ND5 XS to go into my Nait XS however one dealer has suggested I go for the Atom streamer but feed it into the Nait Xs via the pre-amp out sockets. They feel the Atom streamer section is better but this way I get the clout of the XS over the Atom power amp section. Will this allow me to still select the CD player on my XS amp or do I feed it through the input section on the Atom

 

Any comments

If you are going to go that route why not just trade in the Nait XS and go with the STAR, streamer with a CD player built in? Attach your speakers and away you go.  This takes your worry away from having the ND5XS being updated since the STAR is the latest and greatest streaming technology.  

Good luck with your decision.

Thanks

I did look at the Star but I prefer a CD tray rather than a slot

My experience, along with others, has been the use of a CD diminishes over time when a streaming device is added to the system. Between HiRes Downloads on a NAS, Ripped CD's on the NAS, TIDAL HiFi or Spotify HiRes subscriptions, along with internet radio  replaces or reduces the use of the CD player. For some of us we ended up trading in the CD player towards other hifi gear. For others they moved to a CD transport and ran the file through the DAC on the streamer. Then for some who have kept the CD Player they have mix use of using the CD player and the streamer.

When looking at what streamer you want and the cost, you can look at trading in the CD5 XS towards a streamer. With the CD player on the star you can play and rip the CD's.   The convince of having the tray vs having a CD Player that could play and rip CD's is a consideration worth taking a hard look at with choosing a Atom vs Star. One other consideration would be the box count on a rack and power considerations.

Good luck with your decision.

I have only used UnitiServe and Core (just started serious demo testing). The Core metadata editing seems to give one the option to recheck the metadata source, which allows ones database to be updated quite easily. Not sure how Minim, Asset and others work.

The cover art editing is as good as the US. The ones it doesn’t find can be explained by the titles being common tags for lots of things. Once you get the hang of finding them it quite good.

Perhaps in time as all the features appear it will be a better solution.

Phil

Today I have taken the plunge and ordered an ATOM rather than the ND5XS. I was persuaded by the more modern streaming platform and better screen. The plan is to keep the Nait XS and take the pre-out from the ATOM and feed it into the Nait XS to take advantage of the extra clout. I have been told I can still play my CD5XS through the NaitXS in the conventional way but that a better result will be had by taking the digital output from the CD5XS and feeding it into the ATOM to take advantage of its better DAC. I just hope I have understood this correctly. As regards ripping CDs to storage I will leave that until later since I have been told to avoid the CORE at present until difficulties are sorted out

Merry Xmas to everyone

nimrodmr2p posted:

Today I have taken the plunge and ordered an ATOM rather than the ND5XS. I was persuaded by the more modern streaming platform and better screen. The plan is to keep the Nait XS and take the pre-out from the ATOM and feed it into the Nait XS to take advantage of the extra clout. I have been told I can still play my CD5XS through the NaitXS in the conventional way but that a better result will be had by taking the digital output from the CD5XS and feeding it into the ATOM to take advantage of its better DAC. I just hope I have understood this correctly. As regards ripping CDs to storage I will leave that until later since I have been told to avoid the CORE at present until difficulties are sorted out

Merry Xmas to everyone

i would have sold the nait XS and took the uniti star but your choice is perhaps less expensive....

i would have sold the nait XS and took the uniti star but your choice is perhaps less expensive....

I did consider this but I cannot accept a slotted CD rather than a drawer or tray

nimrodmr2p posted:

i would have sold the nait XS and took the uniti star but your choice is perhaps less expensive....

I did consider this but I cannot accept a slotted CD rather than a drawer or tray

a slotted cd is to rip them. The star will play then the ripped cds and the sound quality is better.  It is like a uniticore integrated in the athom:  a one box solution better than a nait xs with cd5i and you will be able to play your music with a tablet.....

I recommend you to see the star in youtube, it explains you how it works.

nimrodmr2p posted:

Today I have taken the plunge and ordered an ATOM rather than the ND5XS. I was persuaded by the more modern streaming platform and better screen. The plan is to keep the Nait XS and take the pre-out from the ATOM and feed it into the Nait XS to take advantage of the extra clout. I have been told I can still play my CD5XS through the NaitXS in the conventional way but that a better result will be had by taking the digital output from the CD5XS and feeding it into the ATOM to take advantage of its better DAC. I just hope I have understood this correctly. As regards ripping CDs to storage I will leave that until later since I have been told to avoid the CORE at present until difficulties are sorted out

Merry Xmas to everyone

Well done!  Please report back when you've had a chance to play around with it.  And it would be interesting to know if it sounds better using the Atom DAC rather than the inbuilt one.

Roger

I went from a Uniti 2 (latest spec) to a Uniti Star, and one of my major concerns was moving from Naim’s beautifully over engineered swing out transport mechanism to the “cheap and cheerful” slot loader. I needn’t have worried - the thing works like a dream, Sounds a lot better (in CD playback mode) and will (presumably) be a lot simpler/ cheaper to replace when it finally bites the dust. 

I feel the slot is a fundamentally flawed design, it is much easier to mark your discs with this method of loading. I have a second set of CDs for use in the car for this reason

I would agree the Core is expensive and the slot gives a cheap impression and the slot is continually marked by insertion and ejection. Butthisis now Naim norm......?

Having lived with a Core for the best part of 6 months I quite like the design. The slot isn’t flawed at all.  Not cheap at all, the whole case is rather up market in my view. Does the job too. Perhaps you’d prefer one of those plastic sliding drawer thingiesthat jams from time to time.

I like my Core, but it’s a cheap Teac mechanism, and the outside gets marked easily. This is not a reference mechanism as the Core has been described by Naim as a reference server. The days of the Philips VAM series are long gone, but others including Rega have CD handling that feels more robus for a few hundred pounds. Hope as an owner I am wrong.

Yep but on the other hand it’s just there to rip not play CDs real time. If I want to do that I use my Oppo 205. Outside of mine is totally unmarked unlike my car which is frequently used as target practice in supermarket car parks! Look at most of the drives in computers including Apple MACs - nothing to write home about but they do the job. As I recall the unit in the Serve isn’t much better and that ripped over 600 CDs for me before I sold it on.

I will take some comfort  that as its cheap as chips Naim will have stockpiled more than they ever did for their CD players. Nuff said, have a good Xmas Ravenswood, let’s hope they put a little more work into the firmware, and it it should shine as a product and not get kicked around on the forum, as it has to date.

I still have my old Philips 610 CD player with the classic sliding drawer, it still works after all those years. I love it