Nap300 to Nap300DR - worth it?

I swear, Mohit. You posit the darndest things. 

Charity of course. 

TBH, could do charity this year (doing that anyway) - and do a 500DR in a few years - maybe 300DR too much of a sidestep....

connon price posted:

I swear, Mohit. You posit the darndest things. 

Agreed, but there's a wealth of direct experience behind the things Mohit posits, and to his credit he tends to think outside the box.

Long time no check-in from you here Connon. Is it true you've moved to the upper Midwest and have a new shop going there?

At this point, no thanks to Adam, I’m kind of like “what would Nietzsche do?” 

He would buy a 500DR. He would not give to charity.

“at night, the ice weasels come”  

the DR amps are different, glad to see that you now agree.

I like them a LOT more than the ones they replace - would I go for a 300 DR, yes I would.

I heard one and was blown away by it. In a way I wish I did not hear it as it is very difficult to unhear, but hey ho.... that's the nature of Naim.

the non DR amps sound a little noisier to me, and well not quite that extended frequency extremes. Not as infectiously rhythmic as a DR amplifier either...

the DR amps are so much more capable than the older generation to my ears.

Others may disagree, but that is clearly what I can hear so it's my opinion.

BUT if you can afford it, please do yourself a big favour and buy a 500 DR !!!!!

You wallet will scream, but your ears will be in heaven.

connon price posted:

At this point, no thanks to Adam, I’m kind of like “what would Nietzsche do?” 

He would buy a 500DR. He would not give to charity.

“at night, the ice weasels come”  

I think your Nietzsche might have added:

"God often gives nuts to toothless people."

My Nietzsche runs more along:

"You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist." - which may be true but is remarkably dull.

When I got my 300 the guy I traded with  had a couple 300DR's in stock and his opinion was the difference was very subtle not worth the £1000 + extra. The 250 DR though he thought was well worth the extra. Only opinions I know but it was enough to persuade me not to try. 

The young Nietzsche would listen to Wagner on at least an active Nap 500 setup.

When the neighbours complain, he would not turn down the volume and scream to them that they will get enlightened by the music.

The elder Nietzsche (what a name btw),  is an entirely different story.

Its the time of the year. Hifi Corner and Padded Cell are one.

Ardbeg10y posted:

The young Nietzsche would listen to Wagner on at least an active Nap 500 setup.

The elder Nietzsche,  is an entirely different story.

As you may be suggesting, the elder Nietzsche very probably wouldn't listen to Wagner - having somewhat taken against him.

"“Is Wagner actually a man?”  “Is he not rather a disease?” 

It is almost impossible to know whence this animosity sprang but it probably wasn't helped by Wagner contacting Nietzsche's doctor with a suggestion as to why his friend was sickening:

"Nietzsche, of course, spent much of his life, prior to his complete physical and mental collapse, struggling with appalling ill-health; attacks of near-blindness, madness and incapacity that ruined his academic career and are nowadays almost unanimously thought to have been the symptoms of advanced syphilis.

In 1877, when Wagner and Nietzsche’s friendship was apparently in its pomp, but Nietzsche’s health was moving through an especially rocky patch, Wagner (a bullish individual, to put it mildly) instigated a correspondence with Nietzsche’s then-doctor, evincing a great deal of concern for his younger friend, but an arresting want of tact:

“In assessing Nietzsche’s condition I have long been reminded of identical or very similar experiences with young men of great intellectual ability. Seeing them laid low by similar symptoms, I discovered all too certainly that these were the effects of masturbation. Ever since I observed Nietzsche closely, guided by such experiences, all his traits of temperament and characteristic habits have transformed my fear into a conviction.”

Yes, what Herr Dr. Wagner wants to focus on is the possibility that Nietzsche was, in Wagner’s words, “a confirmed masturbator.” Back then, the world’s foremost pastime was widely considered to be an extremely risky business, as Dr. Balthazar Bekker’s study of 1716 (still influential in Nietzsche and Wagner’s day) details – the following, believe it or not, are just a few of the physical consequences supposed to derive from so-called “self-abuse:”

“Disturbances of the stomach and digestion, loss of appetite or ravenous hunger, vomiting, nausea, weakening of the organs of breathing, coughing, hoarseness, paralysis, weakening of the organ of generation to the point of impotence, lack of libido, back pain, disorders of the eye and ear, total diminution of bodily powers, paleness, thinness, pimples on the face, decline of intellectual powers, loss of memory, attacks of rage, madness, idiocy, epilepsy, fever and finally suicide.”

THIS I did not know and am grateful for this thread for prompting me to general research and joyously amused by this new intelligence.

Take That made a similar (unfounded) comment about me - I do not now listen to them.

connon price posted:

At this point, no thanks to Adam, I’m kind of like “what would Nietzsche do?” 

He would buy a 500DR. He would not give to charity.

“at night, the ice weasels come”  

Nietzche would have declared the non existence of Naim. Then thrown himself in the nearest canal. 

Clive 

Bob the Builder posted:

When I got my 300 the guy I traded with  had a couple 300DR's in stock and his opinion was the difference was very subtle not worth the £1000 + extra. The 250 DR though he thought was well worth the extra. Only opinions I know but it was enough to persuade me not to try. 

sounds great but how do you know he wasn't trying to sell you his NAP 300 as the 300 DR is now easier to sell?

Currently listening to Meat Puppets "Up on the Sun". Sounds like a lot of masturbating to me. Wagner would no doubt concur. Knows it when he sees it, with conviction.

****ing joyous album, though.

Blindingly good?

Adam, I feel this thread needs some Wittgenstein...

Christopher_M posted:

Adam, I feel this thread needs some Wittgenstein...

Or Kierkegaard, however we would risk that he starts an endless polemic with himself using a pseudonym. Kierkegaard would not consider a Nap 500, he would not even consider himself worthy for a Nait 5. He would buy a Nait 5 and just before it gets delivered, cancel the order and write the rest of his live philosophical essays about his relation to the Nait 5.

Christopher_M posted:

Adam, I feel this thread needs some Wittgenstein...

"What we cannot speak about we must pass over in silence." That could make the forum a bit quieter, it would certaiinly curtail my posting.

analogmusic posted:

Bob the Builder posted:

When I got my 300 the guy I traded with  had a couple 300DR's in stock and his opinion was the difference was very subtle not worth the £1000 + extra. The 250 DR though he thought was well worth the extra. Only opinions I know but it was enough to persuade me not to try. 

sounds great but how do you know he wasn't trying to sell you his NAP 300 as the 300 DR is now easier to sell?

My experience was quite the opposite. My helpful dealer lent me his (run-in) demo 300DR when he came to extract my 300 from the system for its operation. The uplift in sound quality, the extra clarity and weight to the sound, was very very obvious. The my 300 in its return was subject to a short period of run-in....

I'd long thought that the Nietzsche/Wagner schism was finally triggered at Bayreuth by Nietzsche's essentially aesthetic reaction to the festival.

But no, like so many things into he world, the real basis was onanism. Should have known!

Thanks for the fun bit of history, Adam

On topic, MM, you have to listen for yourself. No way round it. Going by what virtually everyone says on here, the DR upgrade to the 250 is a complete no brainer. Yet personally I didn't like it, and decided against. Only experience can tell you.

PS, 

Christopher_M posted:

Adam, I feel this thread needs some Wittgenstein...

I reckon Wittgenstein would exile himself with a 300 and a 300DR to a log cabin miles away from civilisation, comparing the two with feverish intensity, claiming he would die before reaching a conclusion.  Then a while later, he'd emerge, declaring the history of amplification pointless, and having invented a new kind of class E amplification, which for the next 50 years or so would be virtually the only thing audiophiles listened to.

Dave***t posted:

I'd long thought that the Nietzsche/Wagner schism was finally triggered at Bayreuth by Nietzsche's essentially aesthetic reaction to the festival.

I think there's probably a temptation, when revising a previously enthusiastic opinion of an artist, to dress matters up as aesthetics - rather than admit "He called me a wanker."

"I find that Take That's later oeuvre lacks the the lyrical clarity and rhythmic dynamism" ..................... you get the idea.

Dave***t posted:

On topic, MM, you have to listen for yourself. No way round it. Going by what virtually everyone says on here, the DR upgrade to the 250 is a complete no brainer. Yet personally I didn't like it, and decided against. Only experience can tell you.

That's exactly the thing - the 250.2 and the 250DR are just completely different amps.

analogmusic posted:

Bob the Builder posted:

When I got my 300 the guy I traded with  had a couple 300DR's in stock and his opinion was the difference was very subtle not worth the £1000 + extra. The 250 DR though he thought was well worth the extra. Only opinions I know but it was enough to persuade me not to try. 

sounds great but how do you know he wasn't trying to sell you his NAP 300 as the 300 DR is now easier to sell?

Well maybe he did but I'm very happy with my 300,  I know no better and saved over a £1,000.  I really can't get into that kind of suspicious thinking it would drive me totally nuts.

I have a pre DR system and speakers and a deck that are roughly contemporary and am happy with that synergy. I have learnt a lot this past year and  IMO many of the so called 'night and day' upgrades I have read about and tried and even convinced myself are real are in actual fact very, very subtle changes that to me are not worth the money.

And after reverting back to a standard system do not miss them at all.

maybe... but you simply must try a real Naim Hicap DR. A revelation next to the third party version

Bob the Builder posted:

analogmusic posted:

Bob the Builder posted:

When I got my 300 the guy I traded with  had a couple 300DR's in stock and his opinion was the difference was very subtle not worth the £1000 + extra. The 250 DR though he thought was well worth the extra. Only opinions I know but it was enough to persuade me not to try. 

sounds great but how do you know he wasn't trying to sell you his NAP 300 as the 300 DR is now easier to sell?

Well maybe he did but I'm very happy with my 300,  I know no better and saved over a £1,000.  I really can't get into that kind of suspicious thinking it would drive me totally nuts.

I have a pre DR system and speakers and a deck that are roughly contemporary and am happy with that synergy. I have learnt a lot this past year and  IMO many of the so called 'night and day' upgrades I have read about and tried and even convinced myself are real are in actual fact very, very subtle changes that to me are not worth the money.

And after reverting back to a standard system do not miss them at all.

And you should be happy with it. The 300 remains a fabulous amp AND you didn’t have to find an extra £1k. Although the 300DR is fabulous-er, it doesn’t render the 300 any less enjoyable than it was.

Saying that, I personally think your dealer is wrong but, more pertinently, he should at least have demo’ed the two so you could decide for yourself.

To Mangomonkey, I’d say - close your ears Bob - 300 to DR is far more substantial than 250.2 to 250DR. Absolutely no way is it a sideways move. 

analogmusic posted:

maybe... but you simply must try a real Naim Hicap DR. A revelation next to the third party version

 

Yes agreed and it will be my next amp move either that or an Olive SC but probably the SC, the 3rd party psu was only ever a trial and then a stop gap.