NAP 200DR to 250DR upgrade.....could this be a blimey moment?

Atherton posted:

Right, I've had a couple of hours listening and report back as follows:

Initially, despite the welcome addition of a fuller bass, I confess I was a tad under-whelmed. Whilst there was a noticeable improvement over the 200DR across the board, it was quite subtle and certainly not the step change my expectations had led me to believe I was in store for.

But then, the more I listened, the more I started to appreciate the improvements. The 250DR just seems to deliver 'more of everything'. I am not a hifi critic, so I have real difficulty putting in to words just how or why it sounds better. But it really does. Certainly the bass is clearer and more detailed.

The whole system is still warming up, as it was switched off a couple of days ago to allow the removal of the 200DR. So perhaps once it's properly bedded in, the improvements will become easier to define.

At this stage, I would say the addition of the XPS-DR to the 272 + 200DR resulted in a more dramatic impact on sound quality than upgrading the amp. But then the XPS-DR took quite a while to settle in fully, so perhaps I'm being a little hasty.

I'll be listening to a wide range of genres this evening, and am hopeful that I will then be in a position to officially declare the upgrade a 'blimey' moment...

Are you sure your several pints havent distorting your impression? ????

i just did the upgrade, the other week, from the 200 to the 250, I have noticed the  improvement on base extension however I first noticed more detail in the higher frequency.

enjoy your new amp!

I had a 200 non DR for a couple of years with 122x, 202 and finally 282 and thought it was an excellent amp great value for money IMO.  The 250 non DR I had next did offer a bigger and bassier sound but not at all a night and day better right across the board sound the 282/200 is a great amp and one I'd happily live with again.

So, I gave listening a break for a while and then, after the system had been powered up for a full eight hours, sat down for another session, picking some of my favourite artistes.

My initial concerns have now completely evaporated. Perhaps I was too focussed on detecting the differences rather than listening to the new sound in itself (if such selective hearing is possible). I am now listening to an entirely better system from top to bottom......

Diana Krall sounds sultrier, Forcione's guitar work is more percussive, Steely Dan is tighter, Karen Carpenter is purer, Dire Straights (Private Investigations) more intense, Bob James is jazzier and Miles Davis more laid back, Carlos Santana's guitar sings like never before, and David Gilmore's touch on WYWH sweeter than ever.

None of these things I thought possible, but you have to hear them to believe them. This is a voyage of discovery that I am enjoying immensely.

Yep, the 250DR is definitely the dog's bo***cks. There is really only one word to sum up the experience.....BLIMEY!

Glad to hear it is coming together.

Had a bit of a blimey moment tonight myself. My most recent addition, a 555DR, is still bedding in but it all came together this evening. My NDS now powered properly by the 555DR is sounding sublime. But hang on, I ‘only’ have a 250DR at the other end! I remembered during the excitement of listening this evening thinking what a remarkable power amp the 250DR is. Punches well above its weight IMHO.

Enjoy it, it is only likely to get even better!

Atherton posted:

So, I gave listening a break for a while and then, after the system had been powered up for a full eight hours, sat down for another session, picking some of my favourite artistes.

My initial concerns have now completely evaporated. Perhaps I was too focussed on detecting the differences rather than listening to the new sound in itself (if such selective hearing is possible). I am now listening to an entirely better system from top to bottom......

Diana Krall sounds sultrier, Forcione's guitar work is more percussive, Steely Dan is tighter, Karen Carpenter is purer, Dire Straights (Private Investigations) more intense, Bob James is jazzier and Miles Davis more laid back, Carlos Santana's guitar sings like never before, and David Gilmore's touch on WYWH sweeter than ever.

None of these things I thought possible, but you have to hear them to believe them. This is a voyage of discovery that I am enjoying immensely.

Yep, the 250DR is definitely the dog's bo***cks. There is really only one word to sum up the experience.....BLIMEY!

I wish I’d never started that sodding thread with ‘blimey’. My new boxes and wires have had about six weeks or so running in now and things have taken a huge step up. I was listening to an old Billy Bragg album earlier and it was just so much better than before. **** me, I thought, this is good. 

Hungryhalibut posted:

Atherton posted:

So, I gave listening a break for a while and then, after the system had been powered up for a full eight hours, sat down for another session, picking some of my favourite artistes.

My initial concerns have now completely evaporated. Perhaps I was too focussed on detecting the differences rather than listening to the new sound in itself (if such selective hearing is possible). I am now listening to an entirely better system from top to bottom......

Diana Krall sounds sultrier, Forcione's guitar work is more percussive, Steely Dan is tighter, Karen Carpenter is purer, Dire Straights (Private Investigations) more intense, Bob James is jazzier and Miles Davis more laid back, Carlos Santana's guitar sings like never before, and David Gilmore's touch on WYWH sweeter than ever.

None of these things I thought possible, but you have to hear them to believe them. This is a voyage of discovery that I am enjoying immensely.

Yep, the 250DR is definitely the dog's bo***cks. There is really only one word to sum up the experience.....BLIMEY!

I wish I’d never started that sodding thread with ‘blimey’. My new boxes and wires have had about six weeks or so running in now and things have taken a huge step up. I was listening to an old Billy Bragg album earlier and it was just so much better than before. **** me, I thought, this is good. 

HH, like it or not, blimey has officially become hifi venacular. Yes, you have a lot to answer for...

Is **** me the new improved blimey?

Hungryhalibut posted:

Well, it’s what I’d actually say. Nobody really says blimey, but **** me upsets the nanny. I’ve been posting very little recently in the hope that the b word dies a death. Please, please, please, let me get what I want. 

You are right, the b word has run its course. And as you mention the nanny, I say let the Nanny State rule! Richard should hereafter delete all such references of the b word replacing it with ****. Or maybe Nanny?

Atherton posted:

Right, I've had a couple of hours listening and report back as follows:

Initially, despite the welcome addition of a fuller bass, I confess I was a tad under-whelmed. Whilst there was a noticeable improvement over the 200DR across the board, it was quite subtle and certainly not the step change my expectations had led me to believe I was in store for.

But then, the more I listened, the more I started to appreciate the improvements. The 250DR just seems to deliver 'more of everything'. I am not a hifi critic, so I have real difficulty putting in to words just how or why it sounds better. But it really does. Certainly the bass is clearer and more detailed.

The whole system is still warming up, as it was switched off a couple of days ago to allow the removal of the 200DR. So perhaps once it's properly bedded in, the improvements will become easier to define.

At this stage, I would say the addition of the XPS-DR to the 272 + 200DR resulted in a more dramatic impact on sound quality than upgrading the amp. But then the XPS-DR took quite a while to settle in fully, so perhaps I'm being a little hasty.

I'll be listening to a wide range of genres this evening, and am hopeful that I will then be in a position to officially declare the upgrade a 'blimey' moment...

If you have doubts that the 250DR is not a significant improvement over the 200DR, do not fret too much. My experience tells me the 250DR is quite an upgrade over the 200 (non-DR) as I have both and have the luxury of comparing them whenever I wish. I stopped doing that early this year though after reaching a definitive conclusion. I still recall switching from the 200 to the 250DR and then back to the 200. The moment I switched from the 250DR to the 200, a big chunk of the bass went missing. The heft is gone. When the 250DR was reinstated, music sounds "complete".

Your description in your latest post is spot-on. The improvements with the 250DR are across the frequency spectrum and not entirely with the bass. Pay particularly attention to the percussion and the decay of notes. Music sounds more realistic with the 250DR. In short, the 250DR is superior to the 200.

nigelb posted:

Is **** me the new improved blimey?

...after blimey has been run-in. Only then does it become **** me.

G

ryder. posted:

Atherton posted:

Right, I've had a couple of hours listening and report back as follows:

Initially, despite the welcome addition of a fuller bass, I confess I was a tad under-whelmed. Whilst there was a noticeable improvement over the 200DR across the board, it was quite subtle and certainly not the step change my expectations had led me to believe I was in store for.

But then, the more I listened, the more I started to appreciate the improvements. The 250DR just seems to deliver 'more of everything'. I am not a hifi critic, so I have real difficulty putting in to words just how or why it sounds better. But it really does. Certainly the bass is clearer and more detailed.

The whole system is still warming up, as it was switched off a couple of days ago to allow the removal of the 200DR. So perhaps once it's properly bedded in, the improvements will become easier to define.

At this stage, I would say the addition of the XPS-DR to the 272 + 200DR resulted in a more dramatic impact on sound quality than upgrading the amp. But then the XPS-DR took quite a while to settle in fully, so perhaps I'm being a little hasty.

I'll be listening to a wide range of genres this evening, and am hopeful that I will then be in a position to officially declare the upgrade a 'blimey' moment...

If you have doubts that the 250DR is not a significant improvement over the 200DR, do not fret too much. My experience tells me the 250DR is quite an upgrade over the 200 (non-DR) as I have both and have the luxury of comparing them whenever I wish. I stopped doing that early this year though after reaching a definitive conclusion. I still recall switching from the 200 to the 250DR and then back to the 200. The moment I switched from the 250DR to the 200, a big chunk of the bass went missing. The heft is gone. When the 250DR was reinstated, music sounds "complete".

Your description in your latest post is spot-on. The improvements with the 250DR are across the frequency spectrum and not entirely with the bass. Pay particularly attention to the percussion and the decay of notes. Music sounds more realistic with the 250DR. In short, the 250DR is superior to the 200.

Yes, I agree. The music is more real, and involving. And I totally get the percussion thing you mention, it's quite extraordinary to hear such accurate reproduction.

I have just upgraded from a 202 with Napsc and 200DR, Stageline and Chord Chordette Qute 2 to a N272/250DR and Graeme Slee Reflex X phono stage for my Michell and the difference is easy to hear, much clearer, musical and controlled.

The system needs a lot of play to settle.

Next on the hit list maybe my speakers (B&W CDM7 se's) but need the dust to settle to get wife approval.

Well done [@mention:69285854772606285]   Yes it will improve as it settles. Good luck with your future upgrades.

I've no plans for any further upgrades in the foreseeable future. I'm very happy with the system I have now, In fact I'm liking it more and more every day.

Placing it on a good rack with isolation does help, mine is on a Creaktive rack with isolation plinths for each bit of kit. 

Listening to my 282/200 I am happy with the bass produced and wouldn't really want any more to be honest.

My next upgrade was potentially a 250dr ( home dem of course).would my preference for not wanting to much base rule out the 250dr or does the amp balance the whole sound.Hope that makes sense.

nigelb posted:

I went from a 200 (non DR) to a 250.2 to a 250DR using 282 and those two steps from memory would constitute a Blimey moment. Just going from 250.2 to 250DR was Blimey enough.

Hi Nigel - did the EXACT same upgrade path - a very nice move up the ladder indeed - wondering if 2018 should bring a Supercap upgrade for the 282 or a PSU for the NDX?;-)

Wunderbaum posted:

nigelb posted:

I went from a 200 (non DR) to a 250.2 to a 250DR using 282 and those two steps from memory would constitute a Blimey moment. Just going from 250.2 to 250DR was Blimey enough.

Hi Nigel - did the EXACT same upgrade path - a very nice move up the ladder indeed - wondering if 2018 should bring a Supercap upgrade for the 282 or a PSU for the NDX?;-)

Wunderbaum,

I haven't tried a supercap on my 282 but can confirm a xpsdr added to my ndx was a great improvement.

Matty.s posted:

Listening to my 282/200 I am happy with the bass produced and wouldn't really want any more to be honest.

My next upgrade was potentially a 250dr ( home dem of course).would my preference for not wanting to much base rule out the 250dr or does the amp balance the whole sound.Hope that makes sense.

 

Yes. You don’t get more bass, you get more controlled bass.

G

Matty.s posted:

Listening to my 282/200 I am happy with the bass produced and wouldn't really want any more to be honest.

My next upgrade was potentially a 250dr ( home dem of course).would my preference for not wanting to much base rule out the 250dr or does the amp balance the whole sound.Hope that makes sense.

 

I think the lack of bass I experienced with the 200DR was largely down to my speakers (PMC Twenty 23) which seem to need slightly more power to come 'alive'. The 250DR sorted that, but it also delivered an altogether more detailed and livelier sound.

I'd be surprised if you didn't notice a signifant improvement, but then I don't have a 282 so can't really compare. A home dem will of course tell you, Just one thing, even my pre-loved 250DR needed to be powered up for a good 24 hours before it delivered.

GraemeH Posted

Yes. You don’t get more bass, you get more controlled bass.

G

 

Thanks GraemeH,ATHERTON.

Great,

Exactly what I was hoping to hear.

Wunderbaum posted:

nigelb posted:

I went from a 200 (non DR) to a 250.2 to a 250DR using 282 and those two steps from memory would constitute a Blimey moment. Just going from 250.2 to 250DR was Blimey enough.

Hi Nigel - did the EXACT same upgrade path - a very nice move up the ladder indeed - wondering if 2018 should bring a Supercap upgrade for the 282 or a PSU for the NDX?;-)

That is very weird. I have just posted a minute ago on another thread how I loved what my 282 did when I swapped out my non DR HiCap for a SuperCapDR!

I only ever used my NDX bare so can't comment on the effects of a PS on that. What I will say is that moving from a cuddly toy to a 555PS on my NDS was more than a Blimey moment, it was a **** me moment.

Matty.s posted:

GraemeH Posted

Yes. You don’t get more bass, you get more controlled bass.

Thanks GraemeH,ATHERTON.

Great,

Exactly what I was hoping to hear.

I’m not disagreeing with this, but in some cases, I do think the 250 can dig out more and deeper bass if it’s there in the recording. Yes, it should be more controlled, but that also depends on you room. If you start to excite low frequency room resonances, you may hear more bass in terms of quantity, not quality. 

Get a home demo if you can, and be prepared to tweak room acoustics if necessary. 

Matty.s

I thought the change from a 200dr to a 250dr was all snake oil...its not... it just sounds better and is definitely worth the extra cash... the only itch now is speakers being my week link. These will have to wait until next year for wife approval.