Core - Why would you do that ?

I swapped out my HDX when my NDS and 555PS arrived and I got a Unitiserve with a certain British power supply. By going for the Core I gained a cooler, silent running server and lost something the size of a shoebox for the power supply. There’s also the possibility to fit and swop out your HDD rather than send the unit back to the factory. I use a Samsung SSD. I also think it sounds better than the ‘serve.

No doubt there will be the usual Core bashers along soon and of course if you are happy what you have stay with it.

Well core is getting software updates, albeit slowly. HDX and US arent and wont.

First of all: I do not want to 'bash' the Core ... but I have used the HDX for over 7-8 years so I might be able to comment a little bit on this one ... I really loved my HDX and it was only that one of the harddrives failed that made me move away from it.

My dealer managed to recover all my ripped music and put it on a QNAP NAS. This was before the Uniti Core was introduced. When I saw the Uniti Core, I was immediately impressed by the robust design, the massive power suppply and the flexibility to mount SSD or harddrives yourself. I bought one because I liked the idea of buying second-hand CD's (dirt cheap nowadays) and have all my music stored on the Core with the NAS as a backup.

Unfortunately, upon importing all my HDX rips to the Core, all my music ended up in the "Download' folder which makes a separate editor such as MP3Tag necessary but I was more worried about the existing metadata which all of a sudden seemed to have been changed. I looks like the Core did a new lookup upon importing and changed all my changes which I've carefully made during the years I've owned the HDX. 

Since I still own the albums which were impacted I thought it would be a good idea to rip these albums again. Ripping went flawlessly, metadata editing went good - but upon playing the edited albums it appeared that the edits I've made (using the Naim app) did not show up consistently through the Naim app. Example: cover art - playlists keep on showing the old cover art ...

I've also contacted Naim but the only response I got was that "we will look into this" ...

Ended up consulting my dealer and he sold the Core for me ... in the end - my QNAP NAS gives me all the flexibility I ever want (besides the ripping engine off course) 

rjstaines posted:

I'm wondering why you would want to change from an HDX or NS01 to the new Core...

Are there any good reasons why you would choose to abandon your HDX or NS01 (or unitiserv) in favour of one of the new Core servers?

I agree the Core looks impressive, it's a smaller footprint and it has a nice white light at the base, but it doesn't match the other Naim boxes in my Fraim stack, in fact it would look positively out of place, wouldn't it?  So is there any significant technical reason to change from the 'old' technology to the new technology?

I'm struggling with this one, especially as I've spent many years in IT where the golden rule is "If it 'ain't broke, don't fix it",  but there's a nagging doubt in the back of my mind that I'm missing something by ignoring the Core 

What do you think you could be missing by ignoring the Core? It offers the same functionalities of the US with the advantages of a more stable computing platform and of user replaceable drives. The disadvantaged are a UPnP server which is unsuitable for classical music and very limited metadata editiong options for the files in the music folder. There is also the problem that, when importing music collections, certain metadata are not preserved. For me this alone would be a dealbraker but many users do not seem to care. If you do care about metadata, avoid the Core, I would say.

I am a long standing owner of HDX and also a core for last year.

key reason for me to change was do I could have a cord with a 10Tb drive, whereas the HDX is limited to 2Tb.

yes I know that using nas is an option, but with flaking networks, etc the appeal to me was a core with direct connection (not network) to an atom

Cbr600 posted:

I am a long standing owner of HDX and also a core for last year.

key reason for me to change was do I could have a cord with a 10Tb drive, whereas the HDX is limited to 2Tb.

yes I know that using nas is an option, but with flaking networks, etc the appeal to me was a core with direct connection (not network) to an atom

I'm a novice, when it comes to streaming!

But if one, listening taste is 90% rock, and jazz.

{Meta-data, not a problem}

If, one desires more storage!

And the internet, just happens to down!

Core>Ndac

Ndac>S1- SN

Appears to be the real deal!

What am I missing!

SQ??????

Allante93!

Allante93 posted:

Uniti Core

Reference Hard-Disk Server

Uniti Core represents the essence of digital music. It is a seriously powerful machine that will allow you to rip your entire CD collection, store up to 100,000 tracks, serve files to Uniti all-in-one players or other Naim streamers and create a back-up for all of your music. You can also use Uniti Core as a standalone digital source – simply connect it to a digital-to-analogue converter or an amplifier with digital inputs and control playback via the Naim app. Uniti Core is a fuss-free, no-compromise solution to ripping, storing, cataloguing and playing your entire music collection.

Find a Retailer!

A bit like the HDX / NS01 then ? 

I too use an NS01 and have to say, I'm with you Roger. Another advantage I see of the NS01 is the tray loading which seems less likely to result in scratched discs. I realise there'll probably be no further software or firmware upgrades, but why does this matter when it works just fine as it is today? There is always the risk of HDD failure, but I would assume a new drive could be installed and the data read across from the back-up drive. 

I suppose one thing the Core has going for it is that it uses a linear power supply rather than the combined SMPS / Linear supply found in the HDX / NS01 so if that sort of thing bothers you... 

Why not borrow one and see what you think ?

A thousand linear power supplies won’t make up for a basic lack of functionality. 

"Uniti Core is a fuss-free, no-compromise solution to ripping, storing, cataloguing and playing your entire music collection."

Nope.

Speaking not from experience, but from studying things said on the forum moderated by my view of what makes a good sourcs:

Core is a store and renderer, that obviates the need to stream files across a network, and is said to provide a digital music stream output via SPDIF at least as good as from NDX.

Whether that is sufficient to make up for rigidities in the file storage is something that needs to be determined, and may vary from person to person depending on specific needs.

Lack of conversion to WAV on the fly is an issue for me. I was advised to do this on my Userve by Naim as it saves the streamer the trouble.

Keith

If it’s SPDIF output is used, is there any difference in sound quality between files saved in .wav and .flac? It is a new platform and it’s processing power might be enough to not have an adverse effect dealing with different file types.

Hungryhalibut posted:

A thousand linear power supplies won’t make up for a basic lack of functionality. 

"I've told you a million times not to exagerate !"

...but you make a very good point HH  

Innocent Bystander posted:

If it’s SPDIF output is used, is there any difference in sound quality between files saved in .wav and .flac? It is a new platform and it’s processing power might be enough to not have an adverse effect dealing with different file types.

When I originally said that I wondered if I was missing something by ignoring the Core, it was a combination of processor power and software functionality that I had in mind.  I think the 'functionality' has been put to bed (as eloquently expressed by HH earlier), but having just spent a number of hours re-indexing my music stores (because I changed from Manual to Automatic re-scanning and power cycled the NS01), I'm thinking a more powerful processor would be nice to have.

And on the 're-scanning' subject, my hope for software functionality was that the need to re-scan from time to time because it's lost its index integrity ('Can't Play' message when you select any album in a particular folder), would have been addressed in a software re-write, which I understand the Core benefits (?) from.

However, what I've heard earlier about the lack of meta data accuracy when moving stuff from your old HDX/NS01/US to a new Core, puts me right off the idea and I'll put up with having to do the very occasional re-scan (and who knows, the switch to auto from manual might have fixed this?).   And as for linear power supplies...

I was always led to believe the HDX sounded a little bit better than the US in what ever digital output/streaming way it was used. Having more sophisticated power supply and regulation.

rjstaines posted:

Innocent Bystander posted:

If it’s SPDIF output is used, is there any difference in sound quality between files saved in .wav and .flac? It is a new platform and it’s processing power might be enough to not have an adverse effect dealing with different file types.

When I originally said that I wondered if I was missing something by ignoring the Core, it was a combination of processor power and software functionality that I had in mind.  I think the 'functionality' has been put to bed (as eloquently expressed by HH earlier), but having just spent a number of hours re-indexing my music stores (because I changed from Manual to Automatic re-scanning and power cycled the NS01), I'm thinking a more powerful processor would be nice to have.

And on the 're-scanning' subject, my hope for software functionality was that the need to re-scan from time to time because it's lost its index integrity ('Can't Play' message when you select any album in a particular folder), would have been addressed in a software re-write, which I understand the Core benefits (?) from.

However, what I've heard earlier about the lack of meta data accuracy when moving stuff from your old HDX/NS01/US to a new Core, puts me right off the idea and I'll put up with having to do the very occasional re-scan (and who knows, the switch to auto from manual might have fixed this?).   And as for linear power supplies...

I don't think I've ever rescanned my NS01. Is it something I need to do? What does it achieve and how do you do it?

Clive B posted:

rjstaines posted:

Innocent Bystander posted:

If it’s SPDIF output is used, is there any difference in sound quality between files saved in .wav and .flac? It is a new platform and it’s processing power might be enough to not have an adverse effect dealing with different file types.

When I originally said that I wondered if I was missing something by ignoring the Core, it was a combination of processor power and software functionality that I had in mind.  I think the 'functionality' has been put to bed (as eloquently expressed by HH earlier), but having just spent a number of hours re-indexing my music stores (because I changed from Manual to Automatic re-scanning and power cycled the NS01), I'm thinking a more powerful processor would be nice to have.

And on the 're-scanning' subject, my hope for software functionality was that the need to re-scan from time to time because it's lost its index integrity ('Can't Play' message when you select any album in a particular folder), would have been addressed in a software re-write, which I understand the Core benefits (?) from.

However, what I've heard earlier about the lack of meta data accuracy when moving stuff from your old HDX/NS01/US to a new Core, puts me right off the idea and I'll put up with having to do the very occasional re-scan (and who knows, the switch to auto from manual might have fixed this?).   And as for linear power supplies...

I don't think I've ever rescanned my NS01. Is it something I need to do? What does it achieve and how do you do it?

If your streamer (NDS / NDX etc) tells you "Can't Play" a track or an album you've selected (with the Naim app) then it's an indication that the NS01 (or HDX) has got its indexes messed up somehow.  This happens with scannable network shares  (of which I have 12 sitting on a NAS drive on the network) rather than with the stores for ripped music.  So if all your music is ripped to the on board store rather than on the network somewhere then, as you say Clive, you're unlikely to have needed to do a rescan.

I've chosen to keep my music collection in several places on my network.  I've separated FLAC, WMA, WAV, MP3 etc formats and then sub divided by source and/or genre.  This makes sense (to me) in my context and helps me to manage my music collection of several thousand albums. I've moved them around between NAS drives over the past ten years as space became an issue, so having many separate folders with different types of files has worked for me.  Don't forget, I'm an ex-IT man and you know how IT folk like to mess around moving files & folders all over the place 

So the answer to your question is that if you've never been told "Can't Play" by your streamer, you don't need to re-scan your music repository.  If you ever find you do need to, it's a matter of (in the Windows desktop app) highlight the share and click Rescan.

Just read the   Latest Core Update Issues?   thread started by Kevin C...  seems that not only are there functionality concernes (as expressed by Hungry Halibut earlier) but also there are some worrying posts on Kevin's thread about the Core's ripping process.

So if I had any doubts about whether or not I need a Core right now, I'm now convinced that it's far too early in the product's life cycle to make the change from the (relatively) stable NS01, so thanks to those folk who have reponded to this post 

( this reminds me of my days delivering new IT systems accross multiple European sites... system functionality, user expectation management, software errors, hardware performance... the list goes on.  I empathise with the guys and girls at Naim who are delivering this brand new product range.  Rather you than me these days, I'm happily retired from that life-shortening, marriage wrecking, health destroying process they call 'the user launch phase' )

@Klout

sorry to hear your Core got moved on in favour of a NAS. That initial import that left your content in the downloads folder could have been avoided regrettably. Also the metadata bugs you mentioned have since been fixed, Hope you get a chance to enjoy a Core in the future in some capacity!

@NBPF

If you use the Naim app to control a Naim streamer fed by a Core then UPnP doesn't come into play at all. We use a proprietary browser that offers relational database browsing (allows you to jump from genre to album to artist etc). Also the Naim app offers album reviews, artist biographies etc and TIDAL suggestions if you are playing on a Naim streamer and browsing a Core. Metadata editing of ripped content allows you to edit the meta yourself or choose between Rovi, MusicBrainz and freeDB. We also preserve all edits made on your HDX/UnitiServe if you import music you ripped on those products

Core has a more sophisticated metadata lookup engine than our previous servers which results in better coverage for both meta and cover images, also if an album doesn't have meta when it is ripped then Core will periodically check online to ensure the meta meta available is used. As of 2.5 it is our best ripper ever! The base technology of Core is used throughout our new products and consequently will continue to receive updates as we improve existing features and add new ones. 

All the best

Tom

TJ posted:

@Klout

sorry to hear your Core got moved on in favour of a NAS. That initial import that left your content in the downloads folder could have been avoided regrettably. Also the metadata bugs you mentioned have since been fixed, Hope you get a chance to enjoy a Core in the future in some capacity!

@NBPF

If you use the Naim app to control a Naim streamer fed by a Core then UPnP doesn't come into play at all. We use a proprietary browser that offers relational database browsing (allows you to jump from genre to album to artist etc). Also the Naim app offers album reviews, artist biographies etc and TIDAL suggestions if you are playing on a Naim streamer and browsing a Core. Metadata editing of ripped content allows you to edit the meta yourself or choose between Rovi, MusicBrainz and freeDB. We also preserve all edits made on your HDX/UnitiServe if you import music you ripped on those products

Core has a more sophisticated metadata lookup engine than our previous servers which results in better coverage for both meta and cover images, also if an album doesn't have meta when it is ripped then Core will periodically check online to ensure the meta meta available is used. As of 2.5 it is our best ripper ever! The base technology of Core is used throughout our new products and consequently will continue to receive updates as we improve existing features and add new ones. 

All the best

Tom

Does the Core's sophisticated metadata engine allow a user to define user-specific indexes: No!

Does the Core's sophisticated metadata engine allow a user to edit Composer's and Conductor's values: No!

Does the Core's sophisticated metadata engine support track-specific multiple artists: No!

Look at what MinimServer can do! In comparison to state-of-the-art, free UPnP servers, the Core's UPnP server is simply unacceptable, in my view.  

rjstaines posted:

Clive B posted:

rjstaines posted:

Innocent Bystander posted:

If it’s SPDIF output is used, is there any difference in sound quality between files saved in .wav and .flac? It is a new platform and it’s processing power might be enough to not have an adverse effect dealing with different file types.

When I originally said that I wondered if I was missing something by ignoring the Core, it was a combination of processor power and software functionality that I had in mind.  I think the 'functionality' has been put to bed (as eloquently expressed by HH earlier), but having just spent a number of hours re-indexing my music stores (because I changed from Manual to Automatic re-scanning and power cycled the NS01), I'm thinking a more powerful processor would be nice to have.

And on the 're-scanning' subject, my hope for software functionality was that the need to re-scan from time to time because it's lost its index integrity ('Can't Play' message when you select any album in a particular folder), would have been addressed in a software re-write, which I understand the Core benefits (?) from.

However, what I've heard earlier about the lack of meta data accuracy when moving stuff from your old HDX/NS01/US to a new Core, puts me right off the idea and I'll put up with having to do the very occasional re-scan (and who knows, the switch to auto from manual might have fixed this?).   And as for linear power supplies...

I don't think I've ever rescanned my NS01. Is it something I need to do? What does it achieve and how do you do it?

If your streamer (NDS / NDX etc) tells you "Can't Play" a track or an album you've selected (with the Naim app) then it's an indication that the NS01 (or HDX) has got its indexes messed up somehow.  This happens with scannable network shares  (of which I have 12 sitting on a NAS drive on the network) rather than with the stores for ripped music.  So if all your music is ripped to the on board store rather than on the network somewhere then, as you say Clive, you're unlikely to have needed to do a rescan.

I've chosen to keep my music collection in several places on my network.  I've separated FLAC, WMA, WAV, MP3 etc formats and then sub divided by source and/or genre.  This makes sense (to me) in my context and helps me to manage my music collection of several thousand albums. I've moved them around between NAS drives over the past ten years as space became an issue, so having many separate folders with different types of files has worked for me.  Don't forget, I'm an ex-IT man and you know how IT folk like to mess around moving files & folders all over the place 

So the answer to your question is that if you've never been told "Can't Play" by your streamer, you don't need to re-scan your music repository.  If you ever find you do need to, it's a matter of (in the Windows desktop app) highlight the share and click Rescan.

 

Thanks for your answer, Roger. Fortunately I've not (yet) had the 'Can't Play' message. I must say that I'm impressed with your file management. I think my NS01 is a mix of all sorts, especially in the Downloads folder!

I was rather hoping that a rescan might resolve the slow and erratic performance I encounter now in using the latest version of the Naim n-stream app. In my case I have to go through numerous selections of server/UPnP/server/UPnP/artist/UPnP etc. before it eventually allows me to select an artist and then album. This has only been a problem since the latest version of the application. If I get around to it over the Xmas period, I'll make a video of the selection process and send it to the support team.  

So realising I am coming to this table long past supper time, I’d like to chime with the OP. The older Naim servers, UnitiServe in particular, have come in for a lot of criticism, perhaps some deservedly so? However, as a recent owner of a runout 2016 US, I have found it really easy to deploy and use. Having ripped just under 100 CD’s, it was time to setup a backup process which, from a number of forum posts, filled me with dread. I needn’t have worried, using a Synology NAS, albeit with the latest firmware, I just followed the Naim Support Synology guide and it just worked first time. First backup running without a hitch.

US’s are a reasonable pre-loved purchase at the moment, even a few virtually unused ex-dem units about, and certainly appear a more stable option, within their design constraints, than the new Core for the time being. The newer server has undoubted advantages, but costs at least twice as much configured like for - I chose the US as an easy-to-use, reasonable interim option to see where SSD servers get to in 3-5 years.

As for performance, I think it is a SQ quantum step up from my Synology NAS and certainly less tedious than cross-mapping my iTunes ripped library with either Synology’s Media Server or MinimServer with my laptop in the middle.

Of course, YGMMV.......

KR, J