spurrier sucks posted:

Aavik U-300 is said to be an outstanding unit according to a couple of former Naim guys I know. 

very tempting, with 24/192 dac and great phono stage, for more than 20k.

The dagostino momentum mlife is impressive too, like the gryphon diablo 300.  Difficult to choose between the three.....

james n posted:

Integrated amp question aside, you really need to get a Supercap on that 282, Bob. Worked for me in my 282/300 days 

I'm trying James n but the coffers are a little bit more empty than they usually are this time year, thanks to all you lovely Brexiteers and that  duplicitous little **** Farage. 

Bob,

Looks like you're in the UK so my American-made suggestion may put you in the same position as a Naim buyer on my continent. That is paying more for an import with limited dealers from which to demo. I've spent a few hours over the past two years demoing a lot of different speakers with a variety of amplification. The integrated that impressed me most was the Krell Vangard. Class A pre-amp and a beast for raw power sporting a 750-VA transformer with 200-W @ 8-ohms that doubles to 400 @ 4-ohms. Full command of any speaker I heard. This at a domestic price of $4,500. It also has a digital option that provides access to Roon, Tidal and Deezer via USB, HDMI, coaxial, and optical inputs for $6K.

How about the sound? Tough to compare based on only having heard it at a dealer, but I'd liken it on par to the SN2 for agility and blackness, with superior command and a slightly warmer overall presentation due perhaps to being favorably less mids-forward. That to my ears, FWIW. A well-designed integrated that ought to be considered if you have access.

AVH from Germany are also making upscale high power (Class D) integrated all-in-one boxes. I think there are three levels from about 5k€ to 15k€. The top model has a tube preamp section and afaik a first-watt class A power section. I met their MD while visiting a shop here in Berlin (I’m on assignment for four months in Germany, was looking at In-Akustik cables, which seem to be openly physics and good engineering based cables from a company that mines and pulls its own copper wiring... but not mentioned on any of the high end cable value threads). He seemed like a cool guy with a down-to-earth approach to high quality engineering; he had apparently been at Burmeister for a bunch of years). Anyway, I didn’t have a chance to listen, but he acknowledged straight up that they were in the same space as the premiums from Naim and had aimed to exceed Nova with their top integrated. Might be easier to find in UK than Krell or Bryson or Moon? I also really liked the look (but not the price or availability) of the Aavik... My own take is to aim for a great all-in-one that the whole family can enjoy; my Nova will arrive to replace the SU upon my return in February. I have no experience to participate in the “where it fits relative to various separates systems”, so feel free to ignore this rambling post!

Regards alan

Much less Power, but tempting: the big tube integrated amps from Kondo, not so cheap 

If you could run some big ticket horn system. XS Nait would out do them all ..

Nice choice Toby and with their sensitivity the Naim X S could work a treat.I have heard the Avanant Guard Ono ' s at Walrus systems in London on the end of some Consanance cyber monoblocks useing 211  output tubes about 8 watts and they where enchanting just made everything enjoyable - crystal clear midrange and extended treble but not bright or fatiguing.

Bob I would listen to some Vitus the R 100 integrated is 300  watts... seriously good sound

Wishing you a good Christmas hope your Arsenal finish top 4 but below  my Man City !

The Vitus was recommended by a friend once and it certainly looks the part. Prior to upgrading my 202/200, I did consider some of these heavyweights (high-end integrateds), and some of them include Vitus and Devialet. The lowest range Vitus isn't cheap but the price was not the main factor that deterred me from considering it. It's the weight of the amp. These days, I favour amps which are not too big or heavy, ideally 40 pounds (~18 kg) or lower. The Vitus R1-100 comes in at more than double that figure at 88 pounds which is almost 40 kg, and the amp doesn't come with handles on the front or the back of the amp. The NAP 250 DR is 16 kg which is just nice for me. I am aware it's the sound quality that counts in the end but the size and weight of the amplifier are some of the prerequisites for amp selection in my case. 

If one isn't too bothered with the size of the Vitus, I think this one should be a good alternative to the mid-range Naim separates. 

The Devialet. Well, let just say I don't quite dig the looks or the concept. 

One thing I like about the Vitus is the concept. They only have 3 levels - the Reference, Signature and Master. Only two integrated amps are available from the Reference and Signature series. For the preamp/power amp combinations, there are only 3 levels as opposed to 8 levels with the Naim excluding power supply upgrade options. Personally I feel there are too many levels with Naim (though this would give users a lot of flexibility and upgrade options which can be a good[or bad] thing)

LFD if you can live with it with no remote.

Peter Dinh posted:

LFD if you can live with it with no remote.

I'm not sure which LFD model you are referring to. I tried the LFD Zero MkIII LE about seven years ago and it did sound splendid with my Harbeth speakers. However, I ended up with the 202/200 instead. I would say it's a different presentation between the LFD and Naim, not necessarily better as some might have suggested, not only on this forum but elsewhere. It's not only the remote that's the downside but overall build quality and assembly.  Not too sure if the latest models Mark V or VI or the NCSE have managed to eliminate some of these issues.

Look into the Aavik U-150 retail is $12k but you could probably get a better price then that. I’ve heard the U-300 and it’s very good. 

Bob the Builder posted:

Naim or non Naim.  Not really considering this but a recent thread got me thinking is there an integrated amp out there either Naim or by Vitus, Karan or one of the other quality hifi brands that would compare to my 282/300.

When I traded my speakers in the guy selling them had quite an expensive and very powerful Swiss amp by Hegel that drove the big Dynaudios with ease but for me didn't have the fun factor of Naim but are there any other amps that do prat and have more power than my 300? 

I think you will have a hard time necessarily finding a more "fun" or engaging amp than the 300... If your looking for raw power and polish the MacIntosh MA9000 is probably the best integrated you will find able to drive any size speaker with finesse.  

Integrated amp to replace 282/300?

probably unknown in UK but considered the best integrated amp in the world .

Grandinote Shinai

It's like having a band playing live in the living room.

Requires two power cables because  these are two mono units enclosed in a single box

From Bressana Bottarone, Pavia, Italy

Anto68 posted:

Integrated amp to replace 282/300?

 

probably unknown in UK but considered the best integrated amp in the world .

Grandinote Shinai

It's like having a band playing live in the living room.

Requires two power cables because  these are two mono units enclosed in a single box

From Bressana Bottarone, Pavia, Italy

 

the best integrated in the world?  there is nothing like that and certainly not at around 8/9 k. 

Even the audio note ongaku at 100k or d’agostino momentum at 50 k , one of the best certainly, are not the best in the world because all is subjective and some prefer tubes , other solid state, some are better for power hungry speakers, other are better for very sensitive horns.....and each person has his own preferences.....

but the grandinote shinai is certainly a very good one.

I’d be interested in the Vitus if I was after an integrated. I reckon Naim should come up with a higher end integrated amp. 

it's been Naim fundamental philosophy to separate preamp from poweramp

but if there's a LOT of demand, who knows.

Personally I'm not interested.

My aspiration is for a 552- where the preamp is 2 boxes -  (forget about being one box integrated)

I have known quite a few 552/500 owners that have migrated to Vitus, FM Acoustics and LFD. One of the non-Naim lines I tried that I really liked was Boulder-that did not sacrifice any of the excitement, but came with a greater degree of subjective neutrality. Replacing what you have with something-anything-else without a demo is highly disingenuous. Before you jettison your current gear, you should at least *try* a 252/Supercap-this will give the impression that you have a much more powerful and well controlled power amp. 

I started this thread only for a discussion and out of curiosity and never intended trading my Naim separates. I have enjoyed though looking at some of the suggestions. 

spurrier sucks posted:

Aavik U-300 is said to be an outstanding unit according to a couple of former Naim guys I know. 

Aavik is yet another brand in the Anzus family of brands, andtheir ideas about sound reproduction is very close to what Naim is  doing. If I were to change to a simpler setup Aavik/Ansuz or Aavic with my Audiovector speakers would be a tempting option. 

I did recently hear the latest LFD integrated with Shahinian Arcs and a Rega RP8, a very lovely sounding system. If I had my eyes closed I might have guessed that it was Naim......perhaps a slightly mellower sound.

Claus-Thoegersen posted:

spurrier sucks posted:

Aavik U-300 is said to be an outstanding unit according to a couple of former Naim guys I know. 

Aavik is yet another brand in the Anzus family of brands, andtheir ideas about sound reproduction is very close to what Naim is  doing. If I were to change to a simpler setup Aavik/Ansuz or Aavic with my Audiovector speakers would be a tempting option. 

I have a hard time getting behind a $30,000 class D integrated. It is supposed to be a nice sounding amp, but that is just a bit over the top. I also find the huge class D power output ratings to be a bit dubious. If you ran that amp at 600W into 4 ohms continuous I don't see how it could dissipate that much heat without catching fire. 

But you don’t, you’d blow the speakers. Compare it to Naim’s transient power. I dowonder about the amount of feedback these amps need however, it tends to make for a boring musical experience but maybe someone’s found a way round it.

I have heard some that are acceptable. Devialet does a mediocre job at best at it. The Linn Klimax amps though switch mode are not Class D, they do sound good, but a bit sterile for my taste. It's a fine technology, I don't think it's inherently bad, on the high end though I have never heard anything class D that I particularly enjoyed and the primary advantage of class D is it's lower cost and lack of expensive bulky transformers... At 30 grand I don't see either of these to be key selling points.

DUPREE posted:

I have heard some that are acceptable. Devialet does a mediocre job at best at it. The Linn Klimax amps though switch mode are not Class D, they do sound good, but a bit sterile for my taste. It's a fine technology, I don't think it's inherently bad, on the high end though I have never heard anything class D that I particularly enjoyed and the primary advantage of class D is it's lower cost and lack of expensive bulky transformers... At 30 grand I don't see either of these to be key selling points.

i heard the jeff rowland class d integrated ( 250 model) few years ago and i found it very enjoyable, with sonus faber speakers. Quick, dynamic and detailed.  Not bad at all....

Have not listened to the Jeff Rowland, it does have a good reputation...