Sideways move

Adding an Auralic Aries Mini to a 202/200 might be all you ever need. Great piece for cheap price. 

Thanks for the tip, spurrier. Reading around suggests that the Auralic majors on detail, which isn't my main goal - I like the more musical side of hi-fi, not a detail freak here.

So how does NDAC + 202 compare to 272 or 172xs? I mean, obviously, i can get the NDAC and 202 in small steps, a 272 would require a lot of saving. I like having fewer boxes, but if NDAC + 202 sound more natural and unforced (but at the same time bold) than the 272, might be worth pursuing.

a 202 with ndac should be better but I have not compared the systems, but with 202 ndac you need some sort of source or streamer to get it to work.

Claus-Thoegersen posted:

a 202 with ndac should be better but I have not compared the systems, but with 202 ndac you need some sort of source or streamer to get it to work.

I know, I was thinking about a more budget friendly streamer as a stop-gap

The NDAC will need a streamer transport of some sort, and it’s worth getting a decent one. If you go for the 202, I would also consider an NDX, which would give you a nice 3 box setup, and is upgradeable by adding either an NDAC or other offboard DAC, or a Power supply, if you want to in future. A 272 is also worth considering, especially if you want to keep the box count low, but it will need a power supply upgrade to come anywhere near the sound quality of NDX/202. 

First off if you haven't already got one as a priority get a Napsc on that 202 and also perhaps go for a second hand Chord Hugo mk1 rather than an ndac when you get the money these are going for between £650-£675 now that the mk2 is out.  There are lots of streaming only options that won't break the bank I'm using my MacBook Pro and my other half uses a Google Chromecast both connected to a Chord a2Qute dac.

I only have the 202 on home dem atm, I already own an 172xs which I might trade in for a 202 if it's worth the trouble...

I think you may be falling victim of an opportunity that may not be suitable at this moment in time.

Whilst the pre in the 202 is likely to be better than the 172 you lose out on a streamer which you are trying to fulfil by looking at cheaper and inferior options than the 172.  I have an NDX and feeding it with a Chromecast for example sounds very poor in comparison to the NDX running as a streamer so whilst you will improve on the DAC you will be compromising on what you feed it which is important.  This is hy some forum members have changed to Chrod DACS but retained NDX's to feed them.

I would suggest holding fire until you can do the job properly.  A 272 would do this nicely.

If you really want to do something now and you don't think you will upgrade for a long time then an off-piste suggestion could be looking at a Nova.  By all accounts they are very very good and could be a neat, one box solution that puts upgradeitis to bed.

You're, of course, most likely right. Even though when I said "cheap streamer", I meant something more like Yamaha WXC50 or Cambridge Audio CXN. Also, auditioning a 272 is rather difficult, as they sell like hot cakes, but I'll try to get my ears on one at some point. I was wondering, though, if dac + 202 sounds better than 272. Or, more specifically, how they differ, now that I heard a 202. I'd also like to mention that I prefer Nap200 + 172 or 202 to Supernait 2, which I think is too hi-fi-ey and forceful. I love the Naim boogie, but not on every type of music, and I don't like it when it tries to impose the music on me.

I might look into the Nova, that might be more expensive than the 272 and I might actually prefer the sound of the 200.

IMO a bare 272/200 which is what you are talking about is beaten by 202/Napsc/200 with one of the Chord dacs and whilst you are waiting any PC, Laptop or tablet can be used be connected via the dac to stream Tidal, Spotify etc and internet radio.

I myself am in a similar position having traded in a dedicated streamer to better my amp section I did however already own a Chord 2Qute. I have tried a Raspberry which just wasn't for me but SQ wise was fine and then a Google Chrome which is great to use but SQ isn't great so I'm now looking at maybe a Mac mini or possible an  Sotm renderer but until then am using my laptop with the 2Qute which although not as convenient as my old ND5XS easily sounds as good.

I can’t see the point of adding a cheaper streamer to the 202 when you could just keep the 172 until you’re ready to make the jump to the setup you want. 

[@mention:36201736949470193] because I would be trading the 172 in.

[@mention:49154750588625888] thanks, got it. How about the dac in the 272 vs Naim dac, what's the difference in sound? I could take the XPS into consideration for the 272, but how would it sound, compared to ndac+202? 

spurrier sucks posted:

Adding an Auralic Aries Mini to a 202/200 might be all you ever need. Great piece for cheap price. 

bargain quality streamer fit 2 tera and if possible use digital out to dac ,,the app is one of the best

I suggest also to evaluate a Bluesound Node 2. I got it last months and I'm very satisfied from its unexpected sound quality, if you want you can also add a separate DAC in the future but its own DAC is very special too.

rainsoothe posted:

[@mention:36201736949470193] because I would be trading the 172 in.

[@mention:49154750588625888] thanks, got it. How about the dac in the 272 vs Naim dac, what's the difference in sound? I could take the XPS into consideration for the 272, but how would it sound, compared to ndac+202? 

Fair enough, in that case if you go for a 202, I would get the cheaper Yamaha WXAD-10 and use that while you plan your next move. 

If you want the best sound quality and the flexibility to add different components such as the NDAC to your streamer, I would stick with separates. However, the 272 is still a great streamer/preamp for the money. You will hear many subjective opinions on which way to go if you read this forum, but I think you will find it easier to make your own decision by visiting a dealer and listening to some different options. 

I home demoed a lot of equipment last year. My initial goal was to keep my source equipment of cd5xs with ndac and upgrade amplification. I therefore tried SN2 and 202/200. ( Also demoed a variety of Speakers) I preferred the latter by a small margin. I then demoed 272/250dr and this is what I now have. They just work together perfectly, nothing seems to need to be fixed now. Although always room for improvements!!!(I don't need an xpsdr.. I don't need an xpsdr...... I don't need an xpsdr.................. 

Just a 555dr......????

Gazza posted:

Just a 555dr......????

...or a S/H 555PS.  A great value addition to the 272 ime.

G 

[@mention:36201736949470193] thanks, I'll look into that Yamaha. + [@mention:2833539978796882] seems I have to look into the 272 anyway, even though, unfortunately, it's probably impossible to audition a system with a Naim Dac in it. 

rainsoothe posted:

[@mention:36201736949470193] thanks, I'll look into that Yamaha. + [@mention:2833539978796882] seems I have to look into the 272 anyway, even though, unfortunately, it's probably impossible to audition a system with a Naim Dac in it. 

 

272 with Naim Dac doesn't really make the most sense. Or maybe I mis-understood your posting. If you want to stick with pure Naim sound -- i.e. no third-party DAC -- I would go for a second-hand/ex-demo 272. With some patience, one can get these for a really good price. With your 200, this would give you a neat ntwo-box combo -- with "blimey" upgrade options... ;-)

[Disclaimer, I haven't heard the 202, but I am under the impression that the 202 calls for two additional boxes (NAPSC and HiCap). And then of course, additional boxes for the source. Getting untidy, doesn't it?]

Yes, you're right, it does get untidy indeed. And no, the options I was considering were replacing my 172 with either 272 (even though my understanding is that without the XPS, the difference is marginal, so the later addition of an XPS is in the books) or 202 + Ndac + streamer (untidy indeed, but upgrade can be done in small, cheaper steps.

The one thing I like about the 202 over the 172 is the extra weight it brings to the presentation. On the other aspects I'm still undecided, and I need to remove the 202 before I can come to a conclusion, which, in truth, speaks against the 202. But then again, Ndac as a source and naps+hicap could be significant alterations, so because of the many variables, I'm pretty much in the fog here

Say a 202 costs £1,000, and you keep the 172 as a source. Then you could swap the 172 for an NDX for another £1,000 ish. Bear in mind that the 202 really benefits from a napsc and Hicap, so these will follow at some point. 

Say you sell the 172 for £1,000 ish and buy a 272 for £2,000 ish, that’s no different from adding the 202 to the 172. In my view, and others will doubtless disagree, the 272 preamp is significantly better than a 202, having owned both. The streamer in a 272 is better than that in a 172. So a 272 should be better than a 172/202. Of course, you could add the Hicap to a 202, and an XPS to an NDX. Or an XPS to a 272. Do you want six boxes and four mains leads or three boxes with two mains leads? It’s easy to get in a muddle with all these options, but hopefully that will help a little. 

I feel your pain -- these gorgeous black boxes are rather expensive for people on normal incomes and with the typical regular financial commitments (like mortgage). And of course, once in a while, the family asks for a holiday break... ;-)

It is my understanding that the pre-amp of the 272 is placed somewhere between 202 and 282, and XPS DR moves it pretty close to the 282. In terms of streaming, without PSU, the 272 is much closer to the NDX than the ND5XS, according to a major German hi-fi magazine. With the new Uniti range, the price of the 272 dropped quite a bit -- making it very good value for money if you aren't concerned about the new streaming platform. Or aren't interested in other DACs, like the infamous Chord... ;-)

I had a NAC152XS, very similar to the 172 pre-amp wise, and the NAC202 is undoubtedly better. Like you say, more weight. I added a NAPS-C and Hi-cap DR and now it really sings. But I don't like having the extra boxes even though I love what they do. So if I was into streaming like you I'd wait and get a NAC272, which (eventually when funds allow!) pairs well with a NAP250DR, which the NAC202 does not

Those are all valid points, and the major concern, besides the sound itself, is the silly box count. But if the 272 has too little weight or grunt, i know it would leave me unsatisfied. I know it's great with the hi-fi stuff  (details) and flow, but from reading around, I'm just worried it might lack the proper weight. Maybe I should look into the NDX as well... Gonna have to have a chat with my dealer when the shop opens up again. And yes, I have to try to listen to the 272 as well. 

I mean my suspicion is that when people say the 272 is a better pre than the 202, they base that on it having better separation between instruments, bigger soundstage etc, but those aren't the only things that are important to me. I guess I wanna be convinced that something like ndx+202 is better, but after all, the 272 might be the right choice in the end.