Naim NDS/555PS vs Klimax DS/3

If I had heard both and liked both I would go for the Naim partly on aesthetic grounds with the rest of the system. I also have more confidence in long term factory support and resale value. Also, if the NDS is updated you will have the PS already so a more seamless upgrade path.

Stu

I haven't heard the two streamers side by side (although I have heard both), so I won't comment too much about their respective sounds other than to say that in my (non Naim) system I am delighted with my Klimax DS/1, and will eventually upgrade to the latest (DS/3) spec.

I will just point out that long term Linn support and upgrade path for the Klimax is excellent. Any version of the Klimax (from DS/0 onwards) can be converted to the latest version by sending the box back to Linn. For (currently) around £3,600, as opposed to the £14k/£15k brand new price you can obtain the latest spec box, and for an additional amount get a supplementary box (in "Renew" form), with the innards of your old box for use in a second system. I suspect that this upgrade path will continue to be available with future upgrades of the Klimax architecture. For me, this amounts to a pretty seamless and foolproof potential future upgrade path.

Both options are likely to provide you with a substantial improvement over your current setup, so good luck with whichever option you eventually choose.

I would have happily lived with both when I compared KDS/1 with NDS/555 but opted for the Linn on the basis that a) it was a single box option and b) the software was much better. Since then I’ve revisited the choice each time Linn has introduced an upgrade and have to say that, IMHO, the latest Katalyst KDS is on another level completely. The fact that you can upgrade them whenever there is an upgrade is a major plus.

Having said that, it’s your choice...

My guess is that NDS uses an old streaming platform that can‘t be upgraded. As some member here said already, there will be a huge 2nd hand market soon!

You have to listen yourself, I listened to a £20k Linn system demoed by Linn , so you would hope they thought it was “on song”. To my ears it was outclassed by my Nova. I listened for quite some time, others left after a few tracks....

I understand people have different views on music portrayal....so go listen yourself

laurence posted:

I have sold now my NDX and want to upgrade to NDS/555PS or Klimax DS/3. I have 252/ 300 / SL2 and I am still

not shure, which is the better streamer for me. Both are used, nearly same price and are unmarked, like new.

The NDS/555PS had the better bass performance for me, while the Klimax was better on details and space.

Please help me with your advice, hopefully many had ever heard these two side by side.

Laurence

 

For system synergy go for the NDS - it is what I preferred between the two at my last demo. I heard what the DS/3 did and is an excellent product, but the Naim had the bass pace, percussion and sense of ease going for it - and it just had more life and involvement to my ears; less 'at me' and more 'to me' which I prefer.

I think they are both good products though and demo may make you go the other way and you are not wrong if you do decide something else does more of what you are wanting.

DB.

I have heard the NDS with 2X555PS  in Statement systems twice once at Apex Audio 2015 Rocky Mountain Audio Fest at their home studio hosted by the delightful Doug Graham ,I had the session time all to myself .I enjoyed the system Focal Scala Utopia ? Nordost Odin cabling Power and speaker ,I can't remember which cabling was on the NDS ie Ethernet etc .And back in NZ at Christchurch with Ovator 600 and SL cables Chord Music Ethernet,I preferred the bigger room and the Focal system.At this point I had the KDS/2 and felt the NDS and 2x 555PS was slightly bigger sounding in the bass( not a big thing for me as I have separate subs etc in my system and am never short of bass of any quality)The NDS had a warmer (slightly) mid range than my KDS/2 but the NDS lacked space and inner detail I felt  as contrasting to the KDS/2.Now I have a mix of products in my system and multiple amps and speakers to play with and I don't have any Naim since my LP12 and ARO was stolen years ago( sorry I digress) .But roll on Dec 2016 I upgraded to the Katalyst KDS/3 board and I can say that it is very much a huge step up over the KDS/2  warmer more fluid presentation ,just very natural.I am very sure that apart from needing another 2 shelves and more money the NDS & 2x555ps is not at this level.Hence why the rumours of a Statement streamer or one to replace the NDS abound ,I like the NDS very much but miss the spacial aspect that is not it's fort'e when I listen to music ,but as i say listen for your self as it is a personal perspective also to reiterate I do not have a all Naim system.The upgrade path has been consistent over the last 10 or so years ,as such I have no worries regarding future proofing from Linn.

Gazza posted:

You have to listen yourself, I listened to a £20k Linn system demoed by Linn , so you would hope they thought it was “on song”. To my ears it was outclassed by my Nova. I listened for quite some time, others left after a few tracks....

I understand people have different views on music portrayal....so go listen yourself

 

 

 

 

 

 

That definitely won’t have been a Klimax DS system, the DS alone would have eaten up the majority of the budget. I’m not familiar with the range of Linn systems at that price range but the KDS3, in a Naim system, is magical.

Just a thought, based on an earlier comment by DB, might the KDS you heard have been with SO switched on? It’s not yet been mentioned, but all Linn DS’s are equipped with Sound Optimisation which effectively enables you to largely negate the deleterious effects of a less than perfect room or speaker position. If it was optimised for a specific room and you then heard it in your own (or not the room it was optimised for which is likely if it was a demo unit) then that will impact on things in comparison to your NDS. What you describe as differences between the two aren’t characteristics I’d recognise.

The SO was switched off, it might have been a lesser front, end but it was the new dac and amp in speaker with a streamer doing high res files. Total was over £20k, nobody in the demo was impressed......including the dealer who was a bit embarrassed by the demo by Linn. Anyhow it was interesting to listen to Linn after some years, still not impressed at that package. Knowing I want a new architecture Naim streamer, no dealer has said you must listen to a DS Klimax?

Looking at the pricing It was adudorik speakers at about £16k, front end must have been the £5k akurate DS. It still fell well short of a system which would persuade me to bother looking at one of their more expensive streamers. My £4k Nova into PMC 26.26@ £7.5k, is IMO,street ahead with about £10 k in the bank.Perhaps Linn did themselves no favours by using that front end, Happy to be enlightened if you think that is a poor streamer?

I have owned the NDS, KDS1 and KDS3. I now have the latter. All are excellent and at this price level you should undoubtedly try before you buy. There are differences in presentation, although to my ears, the later the iteration of the KDS, the more it sounds like the NDS whilst retaining its own strengths.

For me, the KDS1 was better than the NDS, although the single box aesthetics and better control point were a real selling point. The introduction of Space Organisation was however the factor which, in my oddly shaped room,  tipped the balance.

I did not think the upgrade to KDS2 was worthwhile, but now have the KDS3 and would echo the comments above  - it is simply superb and works wonderfully with Naim amps (552/500 in my case).

Gazza posted:

Looking at the pricing It was adudorik speakers at about £16k, front end must have been the £5k akurate DS. It still fell well short of a system which would persuade me to bother looking at one of their more expensive streamers. My £4k Nova into PMC 26.26@ £7.5k, is IMO,street ahead with about £10 k in the bank. Perhaps Linn did themselves no favours by using that front end, Happy to be enlightened if you think that is a poor streamer?

Something far wrong there. 

I have heard most of the conventional streaming offerings from Naim and Linn, and my choice of streamer is the Klimax DS/1, with which I am very impressed. I had previously owned a Renew DS/0 that was pretty much on a par with my other microRendu/Hugo streaming setup, but the DS/1 to my ears now comfortably outperforms the microRenddu/Hugo. Given the more or less unanimously positive reviews of the DS/3, I will at some point in the future be upgrading my box to DS/3 status.

I would add that the Akurate DS (I assume the dealer was demonstrating one of the current models and not an old pre-owned one) is also pretty good, albeit not up to Klimax standards. I have heard it demonstrated against Naim streamers in both primarily Naim and primarily Linn systems, and thought it sounded equally good in both.  It certainly should not have been the culprit in the less than impressive  demonstration that you heard.    

One poor demonstration (of an Akurate DS) is not a reason to discount the Klimax DS/3. If the OP is considering spending this much money, then he really should listen to both the NDS and the Klimax and reach his own conclusions. 

Gazza posted:

Looking at the pricing It was adudorik speakers at about £16k, front end must have been the £5k akurate DS. It still fell well short of a system which would persuade me to bother looking at one of their more expensive streamers. My £4k Nova into PMC 26.26@ £7.5k, is IMO,street ahead with about £10 k in the bank.Perhaps Linn did themselves no favours by using that front end, Happy to be enlightened if you think that is a poor streamer?

While I like the Linn streamers, their amps and speakers usually leave me cold. You have heard a complete Linn system, with DS, amps, speakers from Linn. Do yourself a favour and listen only to the DS in a system you know, and you will probably appreciate the qualities of a Linn DS.

I decided to wait for the new Naim streamers, I bought a Nova as a stop gap. I can try a Linn streamer then. It was a dealer visit by Linn to show off the new adudorik speakers, I just hoped that a Linn system would show some promise......not so.

Gazza posted:

I decided to wait for the new Naim streamers, I bought a Nova as a stop gap. I can try a Linn streamer then. It was a dealer visit by Linn to show off the new adudorik speakers, I just hoped that a Linn system would show some promise......not so.

Not heard the Akudorik but did hear an LP12 through an Akurate Exakt system (ISTR it was about £12-13k) into Kudos A20s when I last had my LP12 fettled and it was pretty impressive.  TBH, I've not really liked any of the Linn speakers I've heard since they stopped making Isobariks.

As others have said, don't let your experience of other Linn gear put you off hearing the KDS.