Advice on choosing Vinyl turntable

Patrick Lam posted:

Dear folks,

May I seek your experienced and professional advice on how to choose a musical vinyl turnable?  I have no knowledge of it and need your advice and experience.  

Your sharing is highly appreciated.

Thanks,

Patrick 

I don't think you will be able to buy a vinyl turntable most are manufactured using different metals.

I to have heard a Vetere TT

Hi Patrick,

Do you currently possess any vinyl?

John.

Hi Strat,

Fancy hearing another one in the next month or so?  I think it's my turn to host another disc spinning...

FT

J.N. posted:

Hi Patrick,

Do you currently possess any vinyl?

John.

Hi John,

I don't possess any vinyls.  

Regards,

Patrick

Foot tapper posted:

Hi Patrick,

If you opt for a Rega RP10, then I would see 2 choices for you in terms of phono stage:

1) buy a Rega Aria and don't worry about alternatives
2) try a number of the alternatives (I've heard quite a few), then buy the Rega Aria

Rega really do try to make it simple for us.

If you go for a Brinkmann TT, then the choice of phono stage critically depends on the cartridge that you pair with it.  If you buy a Dynavector cartridge, then just buy a Dynavector P75 phono stage, knowing that it is brilliant and brilliant value.  Otherwise, you really need a good dealer to guide you through the minefield of 5 star rated phono stages, most of which I found to be severely underwhelming. 

I would not automatically jump to a Naim phono stage.  I found the Superline to be mindblowingly good when equipped with exactly the right z foil airplug resistor (25 Ohms matters here) and a SupercapDR, but that makes it a £7k phono stage.  I was not wowed by the Superline with any other power supply option, including my (recently serviced) olive supercap.

Best regards, FT

Hi FT,

Thanks for your advice but all of my friends (naim users) strongly recommend me to buy Naim's stageline or superfine which was powered by Hi-Cap and as they said it was a wonderful combo and with Naim's style.  By the way, can you explain what is the major difference between MC and MM?  Does MC is better than MM or vice versa?  Why do so many people like MC but they choose MM?  What makes them to do so?  Does it relate to its price and the price of the accessories?

Thanks,

Patrick

I suggest you ask your friends.

I take it that you are indeed sold on the vinyl idea, rejecting the streaming suggestion...  and despite no vinyl to play! 

In answer to your question, MC is generally considered to give better sound quality than MM, but replacement of stylus means replacement/exchange of entire cartridge, while with a lower signal output more amplification is needed, whether a stand-alone box or built into the preamp. The greater amplification means greater risk of amplifying noise, putting greater demand on design and implementation. All of  this means added cost compared to MM, hence some people’s decision not to go MC.

Innocent Bystander posted:

I take it that you are indeed sold on the vinyl idea, rejecting the streaming suggestion...  and despite no vinyl to play! 

In answer to your question, MC is generally considered to give better sound quality than MM, but replacement of stylus means replacement/exchange of entire cartridge, while with a lower signal output more amplification is needed, whether a stand-alone box or built into the preamp. The greater amplification means greater risk of amplifying noise, putting greater demand on design and implementation. All of  this means added cost compared to MM, hence some people’s decision not to go MC.

 

 

Thanks for your prompt reply.  So, in terms of my preamp(122x), is it possible to use MC instead of MM?  If MC is chosen, then, will it be benefited by powering a SC instead of HC?

Kindly advise.

Thanks,

Patrick

Patrick, no vinyl? This could be an exciting position to be in, but it will also be expensive. Unless you have deep pockets a quality entry level player (eg RP3) would get you started and leave you cash to invest in music.

On the other hand, if you have deep pockets get a Klimax LP12 and live happily ever after. Most people new to vinyl are buying toy record players in HMV as a bit of a fashion statement. How serious are you about getting into vinyl? What is driving you to do so when you have nothing to play. Seems strange, but as I said, could be very exciting too.

Stu

Patrick Lam posted:

So, in terms of my preamp(122x), is it possible to use MC instead of MM?  If MC is chosen, then, will it be benefited by powering a SC instead of HC?

Yes you can use a MC with your NAC122x. In its simplest case, the Naim Stageline S phonostage will give you what you need for a MC cartridge. (I have the Stageline S myself and love it.)

In a more sophisticated case, the Naim Superline phonostage is customisable to match a range of MC cartridges.

Both Stageline and Superline phonostages can be powered from Aux2 on your HC-ed NAC122x. You could lift their performance further with a dedicated HC for instance.

Chris

Hi Stu,

Vinyl replay is my ultimate and the highest enjoyment but listening to CDS3 when I don't want to do so much preparatory works before listening.  CD555 is my upgrade also but after considering the costs and benefits, it does not worth it.  Besides, Vinyl replay is much cheaper than CD555.  I am an existing owner of CDS3 which satisfies me much for a long time since I bought it.  For the same amounts spent on CD555, I dare to say that I can own a top-notch turntable, tonearm, cartridge and its power supply.  

Thanks,

Patrick 

Patrick

At risk of stating the obvious, one consideration for opting for MM cartridge can relate to risk management.  You can get very good quality MM carts at a lower price point - this can be important if you have an accident with the stylus - very easy to destroy them when lifting/ lowering the arm or simply when cleaning the record player.

One other consideration before you commence your journey into vinyl - size and weight.  You need to make sure you have adequate storage space for lp's and that the shelving and background onto which they are mounted is sufficiently robust to take the load - a shelf full of records weighs an incredible amount!  I'm sure your friends will confirm.

Peter

Hi Patrick,

I returned to vinyl some 2 years back, like you with no software and have not regretted it. t is my playback medium of choice. I have now a collection of just under 200 albums, over half of which are used originals. The surprise to me is, in the main, the lack of surface noise on these old albums.

Mt set-up is Origin Live Resolution/Conqueror/OrtofonCadenza Bronze using Superline and Supercap DR.

Gerry

northpole posted:

Patrick

At risk of stating the obvious, one consideration for opting for MM cartridge can relate to risk management.  You can get very good quality MM carts at a lower price point - this can be important if you have an accident with the stylus - very easy to destroy them when lifting/ lowering the arm or simply when cleaning the record player.

One other consideration before you commence your journey into vinyl - size and weight.  You need to make sure you have adequate storage space for lp's and that the shelving and background onto which they are mounted is sufficiently robust to take the load - a shelf full of records weighs an incredible amount!  I'm sure your friends will confirm.

Peter

Hi Peter,

I just read an essay regarding the difference between MC and MM cartridges and its merits and demerits.  So, do you think it is very easy to destroy the MC cartridge when lifting/lowering the tonearm?  I understand that I need to buy an entire MC cartridge if it was damaged unlike the MM cartridge that I can change the stylus. 

Thanks,

Patrick

Only if you're very heavy handed or there's a fault with the cart would you possibly destroy an MC cartridge through normal use. Yes cartridges are fragile things, but that applies to any cart not just an MC and with careful use it should not be a worry - also it should not have any bearing on your decision. 

However, as an aside, I do confess that while at Naim we had been lent a very expensive Clearaudio (I think it was an Insider) for evaluation.  I removed it from the box ready to install in an Aro at which point it fell to pieces in my hand.  Ooops.

Oh, how we all laughed...

You are unlikely to damage an MC cartridge through normal use but they are very delicate and can be easily damaged if you are clumsy.  I managed to kill an Apheta on my RP8 when dusting, which was an expensive bit of cleaning as its replacement was just under a grand.  Handle with care

Richard

Risk of breakage is not a factor which would sway my decision making however, there was a recent thread in which folks were recounting their misfortunes.  I’m sure it is easily located.  

The point being damage to a stylus is a higher risk than most hi-fi components and we all approach risk in a different manner - some are more risk averse than others.  Some consider risk of having replacing a £500 MM cartridge easier to contemplate than a £2,000 MC one.  Of course home insurance policies may cover these risks and all I am saying to the OP is to be aware of this and decide accordingly.

Peter

Patrick

I have to admit I have no idea if one is easier damaged than the other.  Nor would I be confident / knowledgable enough to say that If a cartridge were damaged, whether MM or MC it could be easily repaired.  They are quite intricate assemblages and I imagine the alignment and suspension requires very accurate set up.

But please don’t let me spook you - that is not my intent - for your info I have run a turntable on and off since late 1980’s and not yet have I damaged a cartridge.  If you take care, you shouldn’t have a problem.  So being you aren’t slightly ham fisted/ accident prone, there’s no reason not to opt for a decent MC cartridge.

Peter

I know two people who lost MC cartridges to inquisitive young fingers - one was me! I put in an old MM, wishing I’d don’t it earlier,,,

Yes, some years back I had a friend and his two young daughters staying for the weekend. I came downstairs on the Sunday morning to find the door into the music room was open and the two girls were playing with something on the carpet.  Only when I looked closer did I see it was my Aro arm top and my SPU Royal N being run through the carpet...

However, it could have been whatever cartridge was fitted, so not the fault of it being an MC cartridge.  Any cartridge would have been destroyed in the process.