Naim Muso. Oh what a surprise no rooms found!

Someone will get a bargain used Muso QB.
I have 3, all working wirelessly, flawlessly.
SOMETHING is surely wrong with your set-up. It might be interference from something/neighbour or simply a less than ideal set-up.
Or you've been extremely unlucky to have issues with every piece of Naim equipment you've ever owned... 

Your networked components seem to be ‘problematic’. And they are probably not faulty.
I would suggest having a closer look at your network implementation and looking for errros there.

Might not be relevant, but would you be using Android by any chance? 'No rooms found' does happen more often with Android compared to iOS in my experience.

Again, maybe not relevant, but could be useful to know. When the music drops off, what are you trying to stream (eg. from a NAS, from a music server, from a USB stick, from iRadio, etc) and what resolution?

Have you tried running a hard wire from the router to your QB/Muso to check whether its the devices or whether it is the Wi-Fi that is the problem?

Wi-Fi dropping is frustrating though, maybe some of the above could help you to identify the reason.

Not been my experience. Rather nice, fine sounding garbage if you ask me. I too agree that it’s worth checking the network. I also had discovery issues when using an ISP supplied router. Probably not the  core of the issue but strange that my network has been rock solid since I went over to a Draytek router and switch. Frustrating when it happens but we’ll worth persevering.

Thankyou all for replies.

The Muso is hard wired to the router. 

Music drops out when listening to radio alone.

I am not overly tech savvy but all other items in the house utilising the router are fine and do not seem to drop out.

Surely naim should be pointing out in their manufacturers instructions that a certain standard of router or WiFi connection is required for their product to perform adequately. My advice from the naim helpline was to take the product back to John Lewis as it is under a year old.

I do not know where they produce some of the products but it must in some sort of rain forest going by the amount of bugs they seem to have.

To be fair to Naim though, it is lovely gear. You just have to resist turning it on.

All the necessary information as to the network setup are clearly explained on this forum and the Naim’s webiste.

I’m afraid a statement along the lines ‘all other items in the house utlising a router are fine’ is a tell-tell sign of poorly implemented network with underlying issues. I’ve seen it far too often on this forum and in real life.

It’s very easy blaming Naim for producing MuSo, but it’s akin to blaming a car manufacturer for pot-holes on the motorways.

mjl posted:

My advice from the naim helpline was to take the product back to John Lewis as it is under a year old. 

If your unit is faulty, JL could just hook it up via an ethernet cable and test for that. If you got a replacement unit, and you have latent network issues, you'll be back to square one. It would seem that you have discovery issues (the app cannot see the Qb), which together with the dropouts, make me think that you do indeed have some form of network issue. I sympathise if that is the case - it can be a nightmare trying to create a stable home network, especially when you have to use ISP supplied kit. As another poster has commented, trying another router/switch can fix many issues - I too have had excellent results from Draytek gear, though this is relatively expensive. The Broadbandbuyer website lists many options for compatible upgrades to ISP supplied modems, and they also provide very good pre-sales support - as I am sure many other suppliers will do.

As an aside, it is possible to get pretty good results from bluetooth and Airplay as an alternative to network connection, if you are struggling with the latter. Obviously not ideal, but... 

One last thought - is the Qb connected by Ethernet via any Homeplugs devices? I originally connected mine this way with a longish ethernet cable, and struggled with intermittent dropouts. I just turned Wifi on and it's been pretty solid since.

I'm guessing though that if you've been in touch with the Naim helpline, and have exhausted the possibilities, you may be better off using alternative tech from another manufacturer.

I can't agree with that statement.  To extend the anology a little....  If your car gets damaged by a pothole that all other cars sail across with no problem then your car either has faulty suspension or, at best, is unsuitable for the type of road.   The Muso is a mass market consumer product and, unlikel the really expensive hifi equipment Naim produces, should be judged against other such products.

Wired and WiFi networks aren't new. It shouldn't be as hard as the volume of posts on this forum suggest.  The standard "use ethernet instead" response also doesn't cut it when the products are sold as having WiFi.

To be clear I don't share the OP's frustrations, though I have shared one or two of his issues (the android app is laughably terrible), and I am prepared to give Naim the benefit of the doubt because, despite everything, they are a relatively small UK-based firm bringing great quality in other areas such a design, build and sound.   I just think they need to up their game a bit in the consumer area where they are facing a different type of buyer with a different set of expectations.

Adam Zielinski posted:

I’m afraid a statement along the lines ‘all other items in the house utlising a router are fine’ is a tell-tell sign of poorly implemented network with underlying issues. I’ve seen it far too often on this forum and in real life.

I fail to understand how you can infer this from what the OP has said. For what its worth I own a Muso QB and a Unitiqute and whilst they generally work ok they can be flaky. Whether this is down to the App or the hardware I don't know, but I can tell you there is nothing amiss with my network. Unfortunately they are not a simple plug and play. As far as reliability goes I was less than impressed that the brand new Unitqute had to go back for replacement after less than a week due the volume randomly increasing. On a product that cost over a grand its simply not good enough.

ltaylor posted:

Adam Zielinski posted:

I’m afraid a statement along the lines ‘all other items in the house utlising a router are fine’ is a tell-tell sign of poorly implemented network with underlying issues. I’ve seen it far too often on this forum and in real life.

I fail to understand how you can infer this from what the OP has said. 

I can infer this from my experience of helping on this Forum with countless 'my network is fine, it's that crap Naim that doesn't work' enquiries.

Also from my involvement in the Naim Beta-testing programme, where I've seen some interesting issues.  

And also from my rock-stable ethernet network at home, which I built following simple guidlines.

So please trust me - it hardly ever is a fault of a Naim streamer. I've literally come accross ONE case of a malfunctioning Naim streamer so far.

I respect your experience... I wasn't really suggesting that all these units are faulty but rather that, if network conditions are the issue, the Naim kit seems to be overly sensitive to those conditions.    It is complete valid to state that all other networked items at home work with no problems.. I have around 30.  The only ones that are ever flaky are the muso, the muso qb and the atom. 

I bought a MuSo and a Qb a few weeks ago. They worked fine on the WiFi in my main home but in another house I was getting "No rooms found" most of the time. The fix has been to login to the router admin page and change the WiFi to work on a fixed channel. The defaut in this router was to arbitrarily change the WiFi channel occasionally! Presumably to get a better signal. I'm now certain this was causing the issue. I used an Android app "WiFi Analyzer" to identify the least busy channel. It looks like the same issue was also affecting a Sony TV and an Epson printer. Also, whether you are using WiFi or cables, you should set your router to give the Naim devices a fixed IP address if possible. Both my routers (diferent makes) have this feature. I'd like to mention that although my wife and I have both been IT professionals our entire life, I must give her the credit for suggesting the channel fix.

too many have this problem to keep blaming network etc  i occasional have it .  the app is not the best either.  naim need to produce a guide/checklist for networks/etc . for customers who haven't much IT experience

My Muso Qb seems to suffer no iradio dropouts since I hooked it up to its own dedicated Airport Express. It cost me under £50 on ‘that’ auction site. [@mention:18461704838097549] it may be something you could try, but I feel your pain.

Naim kit seems to be more sensitive to network issues than, say, Sonos (which to my mind sets the standard for ease of setup and user interface - but then it creates its own wifi network mesh and can’t play hi-res). For what it’s worth my own take is that if your other networked kit works on your home network than it’s perfectly legitimate to expect Naim kit intended for mass market use to ‘just work’ as well.

One thing I would say is that I’ve always had great help from the forum here on loads of Naim-related issues (including for example Adam’s recommended QNAP settings), so there will usually be people willing to help out...

There is no world wide standard for the behaviour of a wifi router, so you can't blame Naim for failing to anticipate some issues but I agree Naim should be doing more to resolve them. My units were unusable with the app when first set up but since changing a router setting almost a week ago, they have worked perfectly. I hope that Naim will investigate the points I've raised (fixed IP addresses and fixed wifi channel) and issue some guidance. A firmware or software fix should also be possible. May I ask AUDIO1946 how often he/she sees this issue and what is the make and model of the router? I'm willing to offer some specific help. If we can confirm my suspicion that router settings are the main cause, if not the only cause, we can help Naim fix this once and for all.

I agree that the router can be part of the problem. My BT supplied router was absolutely terrible at the internal network stuff (specifically renewing IP leases) and affected many of the networked products in my house.  I now use a Linksys system and I'm afraid to say it's only the Naim products that have issues... Not terrible, just flaky as I said in a previous post.   For the record i do use fixed IPs and wifi channels.  Neither of those steps should be necessary since networked products are supposed to handle that. In fact, it's only my Naim kit that seems to struggle so we're back to the over-sensitivity argument again.

One thing I also notice... My Musos never fail to show up as available Spotify connect devices (and play accordingly from the spotfiy app).  My Atom always shows up as available for spotify connect and google cast and works well when controlled via those apps.   It's only ever the naim app (both android and ios) that can't find them.  I regularly experience the situation where I am playing and controlling music on a muso via the spotify app but it's AWOL from the Naim app.   How come the other apps can "see" the devices but the Naim app can't?

I suspected the problem is a combination of overly sensitive hardware and app software. It's possible that relatively minor issues on both sides combine to give the poor experience of many users.

Adam Zielinski posted:

ltaylor posted:

Adam Zielinski posted:

I’m afraid a statement along the lines ‘all other items in the house utlising a router are fine’ is a tell-tell sign of poorly implemented network with underlying issues. I’ve seen it far too often on this forum and in real life.

I fail to understand how you can infer this from what the OP has said. 

I can infer this from my experience of helping on this Forum with countless 'my network is fine, it's that crap Naim that doesn't work' enquiries.

Also from my involvement in the Naim Beta-testing programme, where I've seen some interesting issues.  

And also from my rock-stable ethernet network at home, which I built following simple guidlines.

So please trust me - it hardly ever is a fault of a Naim streamer. I've literally come accross ONE case of a malfunctioning Naim streamer so far.

 

 

There are MANY frustrated users on here and MANY frustrated users that are not. Even the couple of dealers I'm in contact with acknowledge that there are issues. If you really take the time to read previous posts in relation to these issues then you will have read mine and many others that have gone out of their way to resolve these issues, including a substantial investment in hardware and connectivity. I have a mates Cyrus Lyric at the moment - it's not my cup of tea but I will be honest, it's set up and connectivity is fantastic - I'll also be honest about it's stability - it's ROCK SOLID. I know that it may not work in the same way but, it just works. There are also a number of people on here who work in the IT industry who have some sort of clue about networking, regardless of that these devices should work out of the box, for a complete novice or a total expert, they are audio products first and foremost not complicated System X Blade Centers with VMWare, Multiple OS's & WAN set up's.

linksye 8 port  which is made by cisco.  random issues with access of ndx and musio qb     both wired.   original  Samsung tablet  had all sorts of problems ..   didn't want to purchase iPad but just got fed up of lagging support  with android.

a 2nd system runs auralic mini and its never failed /crashed/buffered  once in 6 months  .   the app is excellent 

10/10

AUDIO1946: You don't mention the model of your Linksys but looking at a typical Linksys manual, I see a feature called DHCP Reservation. I recommend you use this with your Naim devices. Login to your router admin. Under Router Settings, click Connectivity, then Local Network ], then DHCP Reservations. Click the Select checkbox for your Naim devices. You can find the current IP address of your Naim units using Settings->About for each device/room in the Naim app. I can't guarantee this will help but it will do no harm. I will post a separate reply to all those who quite correctly suggest it should not be necessary to do this kind of fix.

I've been programming computers since 1968. In 1969 I had a terminal at home linked by telephone to a computer 20 miles away. That was before the internet was invented. Since then, I've written software that works over LANs and WANs and I've solved many computer and network problems for customers and neighbours. I'm very impressed with Naim hardware. I have an ND5, NDX, a muso and a Qb. They are all great and I'm planning to buy more units but I have to agree that the Naim app, at least the Android version I'm using, does not work well. In a word, it's flaky and there are more issues than I first thought when I identified and fixed one issue that was affecting me. I'm not sure what the best way forward is but it is possible for an apps to work reliably without the need for users to start researching ways to fix complex, technical issues. The only way this will happen is for Naim to accept that this app needs some work to get it reliable. I'm happy to share my thoughts on what needs to be done. Naim?

Perhaps the problem does lie with the Android version of the Naim app! If so, it should surely be relatively easy for Naim to fix. 

I had no problems streaming music on my ND5XS when I had one, and now have no problems streaming music or Internet Radio to my Muso Qb (over Wi-Fi). But then, I have always used the iPad version of the Naim app as the control point for my Naim streamers. 

I use the Android app and I have no problems

Keith A posted:

AUDIO1946: You don't mention the model of your Linksys but looking at a typical Linksys manual, I see a feature called DHCP Reservation. I recommend you use this with your Naim devices. Login to your router admin. Under Router Settings, click Connectivity, then Local Network ], then DHCP Reservations. Click the Select checkbox for your Naim devices. You can find the current IP address of your Naim units using Settings->About for each device/room in the Naim app. I can't guarantee this will help but it will do no harm. I will post a separate reply to all those who quite correctly suggest it should not be necessary to do this kind of fix.

will try it  thanks