Naim Hi line vs Chord Sarum T

Well do you have anything against Superlumina?

Laurence, i upgraded my hi-line DIN-DIN from CDS3 to 552 to a Sarum T DIN-DIN and the improvement is grin factor massive.

However, i suspect demo'ing an RCA-RCA Sarum T from NDS to 252 would be fairly meaningless if you intend to use it as a measure to know how good a Sarum T DIN-DIN maybe. You really need to listen to the actual cable type [ DIN ] you're considering to purchase, and also - especially as most peoples who prefer the Sarum range of interconnects seem to have 552s : )

Debs

When I had hi-line I tried the Sarum T and found it lost musical flow etc. So I stuck with the hi-line until I could afford the Super Lumina. 

naim_nymph posted:

Laurence, i upgraded my hi-line DIN-DIN from CDS3 to 552 to a Sarum T DIN-DIN and the improvement is grin factor massive.

However, i suspect demo'ing an RCA-RCA Sarum T from NDS to 252 would be fairly meaningless if you intend to use it as a measure to know how good a Sarum T DIN-DIN maybe. You really need to listen to the actual cable type [ DIN ] you're considering to purchase, and also - especially as most peoples who prefer the Sarum range of interconnects seem to have 552s : )

Debs

This. Plus you owe it to yourself and your bank balance to compare it to a Super Lumina version. Just in case.

P.S. I went from Hi-line to Sarum TA (then Sarum SA).

RICHYH posted:

When I had hi-line I tried the Sarum T and found it lost musical flow etc. So I stuck with the hi-line until I could afford the Super Lumina. 

I found just the opposite. 

I recently upgraded my RCA to DIN Sarum Tuned Aray to Sarum T. I was using the cable between Urika and preamp. When I received the Sarum T I decided to do some of the burn in between my Naim DAC and pre, replacing a DIN-DIN HiLine. I thought the Sarum T was better by a wide margin. It was also much better than the Sarum Tuned Aray. A lot of money, but a serious upgrade. I have never listened to any of the SL cables.

Hi Laurence,

You can get the Sarum T re-terminated. Your dealer can sort that out directly with Chord.

I went from a HiLine to an original Chord Solstice (they changed the name to Sarum shortly after) and rather contrary to RICHYH, found it a dramatic improvement in terms of musical flow, amongst other things. 

Gammaboy posted:

 I have never listened to any of the SL cables.

I have, but so far I have chosen not to buy any. 

laurence posted:

I have a 5pin din Hi line from my Nds to preamp and would have the chance to get a demo Sarum T for a very good price.

The only thing is, it is a RCA to RCA cable. 

How much would be the drop soundwise, because I know, Din plugs are always better on Naim products ?

Will the Sarum T (with RCA) be still so much better, although the connection is not via Din plugs from Nds to 252 ?

Laurence

 

Just to confuse things further, my very experienced dealer firmly recommends RCA ahead of DIN for Sarum T and Music.  I've not personally heard the DIN version.

When I heard the Sarum Super Aray, it doesn't quite have the leading edge and rhythmic ability compared to Naim's own Lavender, Hi-Line and Superlumina cables.

Sarum sounds somewhat "nice" but very expensive, and not for me.

It's very difficult to indeed beat the standard Naim cables in a Naim context, but  Hi-Line and Super lumina do that, but if one is looking for hi-fi effects with some compromise with the Naim rhythmic sound, well there is a world of cables out there.

I've also found that changing a single Naim cable, whether the Standard din/XLR OR naca5, probably accounts for the mixed reviews on this forum, once out of the standard NAIM cables, well then results are variable and unpredictable some forum members who report Superlumina isn't for them, actually use home made DIN/XLR cables made out of Mogami.

Plus no accounting for taste either, I found using the Naim cables with Naim amplifiers, worked best for what I paid for - I want the Naim factory intended performance.

This also applies to the power cables. Once outside the naim cables anything may sound good but of course that’s all subjective and down to taste and how much one misses or not the naim intended performance.

cables aren’t supposed to be EQ tone equalizers but some folks like the effect some non naim cables have on the speaker frequency response and I supposed on their sources. The Linn KDS for example does pair well with Sarum cables, whereas the SL and Vertere cables are much more honest and don't try to increase the amount of bass produced.

Anyway - that's my experience, and my opinion, it's all down to taste, and what one likes.

I prefer/demand honesty from a cable, but I suppose some people may like the EQ effect that a cable can give to their sources/speakers.

analogmusic posted:

When I heard the Sarum Super Aray, it doesn't quite have the leading edge and rhythmic ability compared to Naim's own Lavender, Hi-Line and Superlumina cables.

Sarum sounds somewhat "nice" but very expensive, and not for me.

It's very difficult to indeed beat the standard Naim cables in a Naim context, but  Hi-Line and Super lumina do that, but if one is looking for hi-fi effects with some compromise with the Naim rhythmic sound, well there is a world of cables out there.

I've also found that changing a single Naim cable, whether the Standard din/XLR OR naca5, probably accounts for the mixed reviews on this forum, once out of the standard NAIM cables, well then results are variable and unpredictable some forum members who report Superlumina isn't for them, actually use home made DIN/XLR cables made out of Mogami.

Plus no accounting for taste either, I found using the Naim cables with Naim amplifiers, worked best for what I paid for - I want the Naim factory intended performance.

 

This like your post that follows is your opinion which at times you present more as a statement of fact.  It is also based on a different Chord cable than the one the OP is considering purchasing which you have not even heard.  Sarum T is a significant upgrade both in terms of cost (fact) and SQ (opinion).  I don't really understand what you mean by 'hi-fi effects'.  You seem to be implying that Chord cables are adding something artificial.  Likewise your comment on EQ tone equalisers.  A good cable is a good cable and will together with the black boxes reproduce music more accurately than an inferior one.  There is no reason why this should have any effect on leading edge, rhythm or 'Naim factory intended performance'.

If the OP has the opportunity of picking up a Sarum T interconnect at a good price which he can afford then he should definitely audition because many of us have enjoyed exceptional results.  I would encourage him to listen to Super Lumina and other options too.

analogmusic posted:

This also applies to the power cables.

I prefer/demand honesty from a cable, but I suppose some people may like the EQ effect that a cable can give to their sources/speakers.

Demand "honesty" ... from a cable? Seriously?

The Naim Powerline may well be the epitome of an EQ effect I've ever heard in any of my systems. I've used them on sources, amps, PSUs - exclusively Naim systems or with exotic components. Positive or negative is in the ear of the beholder and either way it's a damned expensive cable. Sonic flow, dynamic range, musicality and involvement are most meaningful to me, and while a Powerline confers benefits, I identified some squelches as well. In the end, any cable used in a system will have an affect on the output and blindly paring a Naim cable in a Naim system is no guarantee of the most satisfying output.

I like these cable threads. It’s like a soap opera repeat. 

there's no accounting for taste and ears, for instance Joerand thinks the powerline is the epitome of the EQ effect

That's the single most negative comment I have ever come across about the Naim powerline, but then Naim isn't for everyone.

analogmusic posted:

 

I've also found that changing a single Naim cable, whether the Standard din/XLR OR naca5, probably accounts for the mixed reviews on this forum, once out of the standard NAIM cables, well then results are variable and unpredictable some forum members who report Superlumina isn't for them, actually use home made DIN/XLR cables made out of Mogami.

Come on analogmusic, give it a rest. I guess by "some members" you mean me. Yes, I use Mogami W2549 Neglex OFC cable instead of the standard Naim offering of standard 3-core 3amp mains cable with the earth wire cut off at the ends for my six DIN to XLR leads. It sounds considerably better. Will reverting to the standard leads somehow magically transform the phono to DIN SL interconnect I tried into sounding any good against my Chord SuperSarum ? No, it won't.

We have had a couple of posts from ANALOGMUSIC in this thread and not once has he mentioned who designed the Nait amplifier and who at Naim is the keeper of the Naim sound. And there have been golden opportunities to do so.

Come on ANALOGMUSIC, remind us of these facts. It is important that you state them.

I remain,

Ghetto Yout'.

I've done enough experiments and lost some of my own money with after market cables (and other things we can't mention) to reach the same conclusion as Patrik did.

analogmusic posted:

 

PatrikMember

6/5/1311:58 AM

 

 

I bought 3 pairs of Sarum TA DIN/XLR and one Sarum TA 5/4DIN (for active filter). Im still waiting for my 800 that will arrive later this month so haven't had the chance to try in a full active system. 

 

So I have only had the chance to try one Sarum TA DIN/XLR. I connected the Sarum TA one month ago and did a short listing test. I was feeling like a child on christmas really wanting this to be good. Must say I was disappointed. Sarum TA is all things some have described in the Chord treads. Its a big HiFi improvement. But the rhythm is not there as before.

 

I have now run in the Sarum cables for over 600 hours and did a longer test. The original Naim "lamp" cables are back and will stay in my system.

 

Mental note to myself: Listen before you buy. To my defence I can't were I live ;-)

Patrik

Incontrovertible proof.  A single five year old post about a cable which is not just one but two generations old .

not proof, but just a gentle or not-so-gentle reminder to part with money with caution and don't take advice on this forum as you said as inconvertible proof of indeed the brilliance and performance of these Non-Naim cables

analogmusic posted:

I've done enough experiments and lost some of my own money with after market cables (and other things we can't mention) to reach the same conclusion as Patrik did.

 

Then don't buy them - don't even listen to them. That's absolutely fine, you're 100% free to do as you please.

But please, do stop droning on about something you have little or no experience of and trying to influence others who have a genuine interest in such things.  Informed discussion is a great thing but uninformed and wilfully biased opinions add nothing.  

'Non-Naim'.  I'm perhaps reading too much into your choice of words but it suggests to me a degree of blinkered brand loyalty.

I've not come across anyone on this forum claiming Chord Sarum in it's various guises is de facto a better cable than Super Lumina.  What I would say is that these two cables account for 95% of the 'posh cables' recommendations and assuming affordability and feasibility, I think it would be foolish to buy either without listening to the other option.  There may be other similarly priced cables but I believe these two cables have risen to the top because they are very good.  So while I would audition another manufacturer's cable if it was fairly painless to do so, I wouldn't be walking to the ends of the earth to do so.

Nothing that do with blind loyalty to Naim. I don’t like the prices of Superlumina at all.

But I have heard, lost money and precious time and reached my conclusions.

tonym posted:

analogmusic posted:

 

I've also found that changing a single Naim cable, whether the Standard din/XLR OR naca5, probably accounts for the mixed reviews on this forum, once out of the standard NAIM cables, well then results are variable and unpredictable some forum members who report Superlumina isn't for them, actually use home made DIN/XLR cables made out of Mogami.

Come on analogmusic, give it a rest. I guess by "some members" you mean me. Yes, I use Mogami W2549 Neglex OFC cable instead of the standard Naim offering of standard 3-core 3amp mains cable with the earth wire cut off at the ends for my six DIN to XLR leads. It sounds considerably better. Will reverting to the standard leads somehow magically transform the phono to DIN SL interconnect I tried into sounding any good against my Chord SuperSarum ? No, it won't.

Tony, you should try Mogami W2497, in my opinion it's a considerable upgrade on the W2549.

(I and another use also found W2549 better than the standard unscreened Naim cable, but I find W2497 better still).