A peril of actual "Hifi"...

I think asking Naim themselves was eminently sensible.

Mike1951 posted:

How on earth is that "silly"?

Based on he was just informed Odyssey needed 6 mtr to meet proper amp requirement (not 4 mtr)

I was informed BY NAIM that the length rules are the same for both NAIM and TCC cables so I'm following NAIM's advice.

Yeah, silly.

4m is a very sensible compromise between the minimum length and having wire that you don’t need all over the place. My SL wires are 4m long. Previously I had 3m ones and they were fine too - as Naim make them for Naim amps they have got to be OK. 

I tried Chord Odyssey once and they made the music sound boring. I wonder which you are getting? It may be worth waiting a month or so while the speakers run in, before making any decision. 

Mike it is very annoying that your getting such conflicting advice but if you mean 4m per side that is fine anyway have you not considered used cables? They are one hifi component that pretty much cannot be worn out as long as they are in one piece and the sheathing is not damaged then your ok the cost of brand new cable per metre will buy you almost double on the used market.

Does this length stuff even apply to the newer amps? I have 5m NACA5 that has been through several amps, but just curious. 

Buying used is sound advice. I once bought a pair of 4m TQB cables for £125 and sold them on later for the same as I paid for them. It’s a good way to experiment. 

Applies to Classic Series power amps.

Doesn't apply to Integrateds or Unitis.

Confused...

Why are you changing to Chord cable? Are you thinking it will act as a tone control?

I’d suggest longer Naca 5. I’ve tried various chord cables with Naim but always reverted to plain vanilla Naim. 

" Why are you changing to Chord cable? Are you thinking it will act as a tone control?"

Well, I needed to move the rack from between the speakers and started pursuing longer cabling.  Not easy where I am  - southern Spain. 

My old dealer in the UK and the new one "local" in Malaga (113k away) both recommended Chord for various reasons that sounded good enough.

On reflection, I decided that there just isn't enough room to moving the stack so I'm going split it instead to get it out of the way of the speaker output (see other thread).

Thought I'd try Chord anyway even though there was no length issue AFAIK. 

Then found out about the length rules and realised my current cable length is under the requirement as stated by NAIM.  

Started talking about it on here and got involved in all sorts of nonsense. 

Richard Dane posted:

Mike, don’t be confused. It’s in the FAQ on here. If you had said it was a NAIT5i or Supernait or uniti, then ok fine, but a NAP200 is different - it’s still very much “old school” in its cable requirements.

Good evening Richard,

What about the NAP300DR? Is it as sensitive as the NAP200 regarding the speaker cables length?

I'll receive a 252DR/300DR combo by the end of February and my cables' length is about 3,70 m.

It should be enough, right?
Or do you recommend more? 

Tread carefully Mike. The Chords I’ve tried can initially sound impressive but after a while that passes and you realise the music isn’t grabbing you the way it used to. IME of course.

How many hours use have the ATCs had? We’re they new or 2nd hand?

TomSer posted:

Richard Dane posted:

Mike, don’t be confused. It’s in the FAQ on here. If you had said it was a NAIT5i or Supernait or uniti, then ok fine, but a NAP200 is different - it’s still very much “old school” in its cable requirements.

Good evening Richard,

What about the NAP300DR? Is it as sensitive as the NAP200 regarding the speaker cables length?

I'll receive a 252DR/300DR combo by the end of February and my cables' length is about 3,70 m.

It should be enough, right?
Or do you recommend more? 

Tomser, yup the NAP300DR requires Naim's cable recommendation.  3.7m per channel is enough, although personally I prefer more mainly because, firstly I think that 5m or more sounds better- I use 10m per channel myself - and secondly because too long is always better than too short.

I've put my Proac's up for sale several times, thinking I could do better, but chickened out and withdrew the ads as soon as people started responding.

I'm now convinced that when I do eventually sell them they will be replaced by other (better) Proac's

Richard Dane posted:

TomSer posted:

Richard Dane posted:

Mike, don’t be confused. It’s in the FAQ on here. If you had said it was a NAIT5i or Supernait or uniti, then ok fine, but a NAP200 is different - it’s still very much “old school” in its cable requirements.

Good evening Richard,

What about the NAP300DR? Is it as sensitive as the NAP200 regarding the speaker cables length?

I'll receive a 252DR/300DR combo by the end of February and my cables' length is about 3,70 m.

It should be enough, right?
Or do you recommend more? 

Tomser, yup the NAP300DR requires Naim's cable recommendation.  3.7m per channel is enough, although personally I prefer more mainly because, firstly I think that 5m or more sounds better- I use 10m per channel myself - and secondly because too long is always better than too short.

Very good advice unless your speaker placement is fixed and can never be moved if not the longer the wire the more options you have.

Mike,

I also recently purchased a pair SCM19s.

My unsolicited advise would be to slow down a little - wait for the ATCs to fully break in before making any more cable changes.  

Pay attention to hard surfaces in your room or side wall  or back wall reflections to be sure they are not emphasizing the highs.

Last, while I think a 250 would be a better amp match for scale, flow and dynamics - I would focus my energy on an a really good source.   I think this is where most of the trouble stems from if there is harshness in the system. The ATCs will reveal all upstream - good and bad.  

My ATCs have me going down a similar path to you  - but in my case I am focusing on a service of my older Naim equipment,  a turntable tune up  and a new phono cart is likely right around the corner.

That's all very sensible and mostly already attended-to. The cable change is needful because my current lengths are way too short.

Yes, the speakers are still bedding-in and the sound is improving now almost on a daily basis.

Lowering the rack by splitting it into two will pay dividends. 

The front end ND5XS/XP5XS  is unlikely to change now, barring a lottery win.

Mike1951 posted:

. 

The front end ND5XS/XP5XS  is unlikely to change now, barring a lottery win.

 

Lottery may be useful for improvement (plenty of things a big win could fund!), but not essential as there are other ways, but of course only if they appeal: e.g selling my ND5XS + XP5XS funded Hugo + Mac Mini/Audirvana/Gustard, a distinct improvement in sound quality to my ears, my old NAS then becoming a backup device, moved to where it couldn’t be heard.

Mike1951 posted:

The front end ND5XS/XP5XS  is unlikely to change now, barring a lottery win.

I do think it would be best to upgrade your source before considering a better amp. There are a couple of options that might not be so expensive. Selling the XP5XS and adding a used Chord DAC would not cost much - you could even make a small profit on it. Adding a Naim DAC would cost a little more, or adding you could swap the ND5 for an NDX as streamer prices seem to be heading down, presumably in anticipation of new models arriving at some time.

Mike - have you tried putting the Proac speakers back in the system and seeing what you think ? I'm sure your new ATC's are lovely but perhaps the old speakers just worked better with your electronics and room.

James

As things are going the right way, let them continue to go the right way, get the longer cables and look at room reflections.

I'm sure you'll get there.

Mike1951 posted:

 

According to the NAIM dealer,  the stricture re: cable length does not apply to modern NAIM equipment and also that the NAP200 is capable of driving any stand-mounted speaker, which at the moment I have to say seems the case. 

As the speakers are described as needing to be driven by at least 70 watts and the NAP200 is rated at 80, this certainly brings the match well within the necessary performance level.

 

Hate to break it to you, you're dealer is wrong on both matters, the 200 is rated at 70 watts and does need the minimum 3.5 meters of speaker cable, preferably NACA 5.

I have not heard the ATC SCM19 but read alot about them.  I have auditioned your Naim Pre/Power (great sruff!).  Having read the contents of this thread, maybe I am wrong, but all the advice as to cables or power of amplifier, will only amplify more clearly the sound you are already hearing, which is  sounds  like typical ATC.  Maybe you need to change speakers (eg Russell K 100) which may bring back the 'love' and not be so ruthless to lesser recordings,

oh noooo, the Russell Ks are fantastic speakers, really like them,  but I found them definitely more analytical and ruthless in the upper mids than the latest ATCs.... The Russel Ks remind more of the earlier ATCs which were more ruthlessly revealing..  I suggest if you want a sweeter speaker that can subtly gloss over shortcomings you might want to try something from the Harbeth stable - again great speakers - but not quite analytically revealing enough for me 

I’ve heard The Russell k’s a few times, very much agree with Simon in Suffolk, somewhat on the harsh side for me, not a fan of the Harbeth either....other speakers are available