Plastic Pollution Propaganda.

Hmm unfortunately had to look into the matter of dog poo in our local community where we get a lot of dog walkers from the nearby town coming for country walks. We have now installed dog poo bins across the parish at key footpaths where there is also some vehicular access for disposal with a helpful reminder of the dog owners legal obligations. The reason being that unlike most other  faeces which is mostly harmless albeit unpleasant, dog and fox poo is a carrier of the parasite Toxocara Canis or Roundworm the cause of the dangerous disease Toxacarius. This is can be spread easily by shoes and definitely by skin contact and cause serious illness in humans and can be extremely dangerous to children even causing total blindness or worse. Although foxes carry this- foxes don't tend to defecate  in open places and so less of an issue compared to dogs being walked or let to run free. 

The advice is simple - anywhere where there is other animal or human contact possible - pick up your dog faeces (carefully without skin contact) and put in a plastic bag and dispose of.. simples.. Anything else is totally irresponsible and I would rank in the same category as drink driving and child abuse...  The law is there for a reason - its not because dog poo is unsightly - although it is - it is the fact it is a major health risk and potentially a killer especially for weaker people and children.

I agree with Simon, the harmful effects of dog poo go far beyond the nasty smelly mess on your shoe, and the health effects are not limited to humans as they spread into the environment too. Sending it into the undergrowth, bagged or unbagged, is not OK.

ChrisSU posted:

I agree with Simon, the harmful effects of dog poo go far beyond the nasty smelly mess on your shoe, and the health effects are not limited to humans as they spread into the environment too. Sending it into the undergrowth, bagged or unbagged, is not OK.

Well, there's the Forestry Commission-backed campaign for dog walkers to use a "stick and flick" the mess off the pathway and into the undergrowth, or cover it with leaves, as an effective way of removing the mess. I guess it all depends what type of undergrowth, where it is, and ensuring it isn't likely to get into a water course. Common sense needs to prevail.

Most folks' dogs are cleared of toxicara as puppies, & regular worming treatment ensures there's no re-infection.

A Forestry Commission ?  Common sense?  This paragraph is a full loop logical fallacy for me.

If you want common sense and are a responsible citizen then pick up after yourself and don't toss your s*#& around for others to deal with.  This means don't litter - period.  Whether this is plastic bags, diapers, banana peels, cigarettes etc.  If you are a property owner you should be able to sympathize with this?

The solution is to list the addresses publicly of those in the Forestry Commission and those who adhere to a not in my backyard but anywhere else policy.  Then others will know where it will be welcomed so they and their animals can defecate freely and also toss out other biodegradable products mixed in with other garbage.

So go by a forum rant, or take the advice of The Forestry Commission? Let me see...

Don Atkinson posted:

As I sit in my study, typing this post, I look around and see that a fair number of things are either all-plastic, or comprise a significant plastic element. :

• Dell Desktop computer
• ThinkPad Laptop computer
• HP Printer
• Epson Scanner
• Keyboard and mouse
• Power cables, plugs and sockets
• Stapler, hole punch
• Waste bin
• Miele vacuum cleaner
• Cover around grandchildren's carry-cot
• Lever-arch files
• Engineer's scale and drawing templates
• Double-glazed uPVC window

None of these will be wasted. None will be dumped by the roadside

At the end of their usefulness, each one will be taken to the local re-cycling facility (we used to call it the local "dump") where it will be ................ ???

In other words,

• how much of this CAN be recycled ?
• How much WILL be recycled ?
• How much is bi-degradable ?

What happens those elements that are not recyclable or biodegradable ?

 

 

Watch Reggie Yate's documentary about the burner boys in Ghana on the BBC and you will see where a lot of this 'recycled' stuff ends up.

With regard to forestry commission land, they indeed recommend when in remoter general forest areas to use the stick and flick method to push the faces into more wooded areas where people are less likely to access, apparently this as seen as preferable to people bagging faeces and tossing it.. which is not a great reference, but even the Forrestey Commision recommend around more popular foot paths and around and visitor centres that faeces be bagged and properly disposed of for health reasons.

However off forestry commision land in public land, the The Clean Neighbourhoods and Environment Act 2005 makes it an offence to let your dog poop and not remove and dispose off the faeces, with on the spot fines being available to be  issued by empowered officers.

Indeed, an offense if on public land. But round here we take our dogs on agricultural land, with permission from our friendly farmer whose land surrounds us.

Bob the Builder posted:

Don Atkinson posted:

As I sit in my study, typing this post, I look around and see that a fair number of things are either all-plastic, or comprise a significant plastic element. :

• Dell Desktop computer
• ThinkPad Laptop computer
• HP Printer
• Epson Scanner
• Keyboard and mouse
• Power cables, plugs and sockets
• Stapler, hole punch
• Waste bin
• Miele vacuum cleaner
• Cover around grandchildren's carry-cot
• Lever-arch files
• Engineer's scale and drawing templates
• Double-glazed uPVC window

None of these will be wasted. None will be dumped by the roadside

At the end of their usefulness, each one will be taken to the local re-cycling facility (we used to call it the local "dump") where it will be ................ ???

In other words,

• how much of this CAN be recycled ?
• How much WILL be recycled ?
• How much is bi-degradable ?

What happens those elements that are not recyclable or biodegradable ?

 

 

Watch Reggie Yate's documentary about the burner boys in Ghana on the BBC and you will see where a lot of this 'recycled' stuff ends up.

I suppose I should have asked "where SHOULD this stuff end up ?"

tonym posted:

Indeed, an offense if on public land. But round here we take our dogs on agricultural land, with permission from our friendly farmer whose land surrounds us.

Hi Tony I guess private agricultural land off footpaths is going to be relatively benign... but for most I’m not sure that is an environment they can walk their dogs on...

Nice to see news items that Iceland (the grocer) and the EU (the org we are leaving) are moving to remove or recycle plastic. And within a sensible time scale of about 5 years.

recognition and a start.

One thing that has struck me in recent years is the illogical nature of recycling targets - these have been rising over time with threats of fines for non-compliant authorities.

I would not be surprised if there was political collusion with food manufacturers and packaging companies to keep the amount of packaging high - think about it - if you suddenly get rid of loads of recyclable packaging from the shelves it makes it very hard if not impossible for local authorities to maintain the same recycling %age or do better as suddenly this stuff is no longer available to recycle and the ratio of non-recyclable to recyclable waste rises.

What we really need to get rid of is the stuff that virtually cannot be recycled which is most plastic films/wrappers/nets/plastic foil - my non-recyclable waste every fortnight is virtually full of plastic wrappings/bags and paper kitchen towels/tissues and very little else.

As for the dog poo issue this is a huge bugbear of mine - I simply cannot understand the mentality of these twerps who think it's preferable to hang a bag of fermenting dog crap on a tree or in a pile on a path somewhere rather than to sensibly dispose of it.  I took the kids to some fantastic sand dunes I enjoyed as a child - mounds of dog poo bags everywhere.  I was shocked having not been there for many years.

Also don't get me started on the idiots who feel it's fine for their animals to run around busy beaches in the summer, shitting in the sand, streams or pools.  Their animals then invariably try to top up their intestines by getting into your food bags/baskets with half-baked apologies and the expectation you found Fido's antics amusing when he darted off with your food and got sand in your clothing/picnic towels etc.  Grrrrrrrrrr!   The selfish BBQ on the beach brigade are just as annoying.

Alley Cat posted:

One thing that has struck me in recent years is the illogical nature of recycling targets - these have been rising over time with threats of fines for non-compliant authorities.

I would not be surprised if there was political collusion with food manufacturers and packaging companies to keep the amount of packaging high - think about it - if you suddenly get rid of loads of recyclable packaging from the shelves it makes it very hard if not impossible for local authorities to maintain the same recycling %age or do better as suddenly this stuff is no longer available to recycle and the ratio of non-recyclable to recyclable waste rises.

What we really need to get rid of is the stuff that virtually cannot be recycled which is most plastic films/wrappers/nets/plastic foil - my non-recyclable waste every fortnight is virtually full of plastic wrappings/bags and paper kitchen towels/tissues and very little else.

 

I think you make a good point. The targets should be a reduction in per-capita contribution to non-biodegradable landfill. This would incentivise:

a) Low levels of packaging

b) Recyclable packaging, and

c) Bio-degradable packaging where a) and b) don't work.

Don Atkinson posted:

Nice to see news items that Iceland (the grocer) and the EU (the org we are leaving) are moving to remove or recycle plastic. And within a sensible time scale of about 5 years.

recognition and a start.

I see McDonalds has set their own target to be fully recyclable/biodegradable. The target of "by 2025" seems unbelievably soft, though. Why not make it the end of this year?

Maybe read the exec summary of this and you might want to consider revising your opinions (it might be a little skewed but certainly is getting close to the real message):

https://www.gov.uk/government/...scho0711buan-e-e.pdf

You need to reuse a paper bag 3 times to have the same carbon emission as a one time use HDPE bag to landfill! If the HDPE is reused as a bin liner or shopping bag or for energy generation... ( to visualise, one pallet of plastic bags can carry the same amount of shopping as a fully loaded HGV of paper bags)

The problem with plastic bag usage is not carbon managemant but it is the visable environmental, it is disposal that is the issue. And incineration is the best solution. This ensures that plastic packaging can be as lightweight (low gauge is impossible with recycled material) and small as possible and ensure the maximum perforamnce for minimal environemntal footprint. Plastic (that is numerous grade of: HDPE, LLDPE, LDPE, MDPE, UHDPE, HIPS, GPPS, uPVC, PVC,  resin PET, fibre PET, ABS, PC, PU, PP etc) is not easy to mechanically recycle and its propoerties, purity and usabilty of the recycled material is vastly compromised (medical, food contact etc bad idea). Burning plastic if managed properly (scrubbers and suitable temppatures produces no more emissions that fossil fuels, and per MWh that figure is far lower than from coal - ok PVC needs to managed but this is not really used in packaging anymore.

Don, your list of plastic around you doesn't get close, and if you add other hydrocarbon based chemicals.... Nearly all the clothing you wear contains plastics or is made of plastic, the paint on your walls, the pipes suppplying you water and taking waste away, most things you touch (unless your wooden furntiure has been oiled with pure tung or linseed oils it is coated with plastic), it is scary!

Whilst we are still burning fossil fuel for electicity it makes sense to displace this with plastic waste... roughly (only) 5% of oil produced is used to make chemicals, the rest is burned for its energy.

So why do we not recycle the energy in plastic and rather let it go to landfill, I don't really know. But I suspect the fact that environementalists are are highly selective in their use of science and believe in the evil of anything that doesn't grow on a tree (or is a tree) and media blindly follows as they are clueless means the popular view is one that plastic is evil, this is continiually propogated.

How do you get developing nations to manage their waste properly? That I don't know. But chopping down more trees and burning more coal, oil and gas to keep producing or recycling more and more paper and cardboard might not be the best solution...

Hi Matthew,

At last, an overview that looks beyond plastic bags,  cups and litter !

...and looks at the consequences of replacing plastic with other materials be it paper, cardboard, timber, metal etc etc all of which introduce alternative problems.

What are we mainly concerned about with plastic ? eg we don't collect it, so it just lies around as litter ? we collect it but dump it in the sea ? We burn it carelessly and don't use the potential energy ? quite a list I guess ! but Matthew's post starts the conversation.

BTW, my study is rather small (10' x 9') and I only quoted what I could actually see at first glance, simply to illustrate the extent of plastic product - and I overlooked the plastic lenses in my specs !! I agree, it doesn't get close to identifying all plastics never mind other chemical derivatives of hydrocarbons

The problem with plastic packaging and carrier bags is with the effect they have on the environment - specifically the seas after disposal. An increase in carbon emissions per bag may be an unavoidable consequence of keeping the seas clean until an alternative approach is found.