Has your Core gone off into its own world ?

And, and how is SQ? Do you have the Core on SSD or HDD? How does it compare vs. NS01 HDD and Duo v2 vs. HDX SSD? 

Chag -

Yes it is only one Music Store with a Core,  which is the place where the Core saves rips. This can be internal or external but just one anyway. You can have numerous music shares though and the app integrates all of them into one set of music. Incidentally the app will let you see the newest CDs in reverse order of ripping, so you don't need to keep new CD rips in a special place.

best

David

David Hendon posted:

Yes it is only one Music Store with a Core,  which is the place where the Core saves rips. This can be internal or external but just one anyway. You can have numerous music shares though and the app integrates all of them into one set of music. Incidentally the app will let you see the newest CDs in reverse order of ripping, so you don't need to keep new CD rips in a special place.

best

David

Basically the same functionality as with the HDX / UnitiServe ... 

Klout10 posted:

David Hendon posted:

Yes it is only one Music Store with a Core,  which is the place where the Core saves rips. This can be internal or external but just one anyway. You can have numerous music shares though and the app integrates all of them into one set of music. Incidentally the app will let you see the newest CDs in reverse order of ripping, so you don't need to keep new CD rips in a special place.

best

David

Basically the same functionality as with the HDX / UnitiServe ... 

Not for Roger it isn't, looks like he will need multiple Music Stores, which the old servers could do, but the Core apparently can't.

rjstaines posted:

Update...

well, the good folks at Naim have 'dialled in' to my Core and figured out why it wasn't seeing any network drives. Seems it was a problem resolving the master browser on the network, which they have now fixed on my machine.  The suspect, it seems, is an old HP Windows Home Server which backs up each Windows computer overnight. These are no longer sold by HP and it's a good 10 years (ish) old.  So I now have a 'working' Core...

First task - import my music stores from the NS01. I have 3 music stores (as distinct from network shares) - one in the NS01 and two external ones on a NAS drive. The NS01 combines the music from all three and presents it as 'music store'.  Having the external stores allows me to categorise rips a bit... e.g. 'New CDs'. I can copy the contents of 'new CDs' and take it to my off-site backup (aka second Naim server) and then merge the new ones into the main music store.  Let's not go too deeply into this arrangement; I might be falling foul of some legislation that limits me to only one electronic copy of a CD.

So - first question:

Can I have more than one ripped music store on the Core?   so far, it doesn't seem so, it has a 'music store' and its on either the internal drive or on a network drive - not both ! ...am I right?

 

 

I don’t understand the explanation they gave you about resolving the master browser. I imagined that once the Core had an IP address it would try to discover all UPnP servers on the network. Whilst you may have wanted your backup server to be discovered, it should not have been a show stopper. Maybe it did not support Apple Bonjour which they also seem to like to use?

Phil

ChrisSU posted:

Klout10 posted:

David Hendon posted:

Yes it is only one Music Store with a Core,  which is the place where the Core saves rips. This can be internal or external but just one anyway. You can have numerous music shares though and the app integrates all of them into one set of music. Incidentally the app will let you see the newest CDs in reverse order of ripping, so you don't need to keep new CD rips in a special place.

best

David

Basically the same functionality as with the HDX / UnitiServe ... 

Not for Roger it isn't, looks like he will need multiple Music Stores, which the old servers could do, but the Core apparently can't.

Quite agree,  the UnitiServe supports multiple Music Sores only one of which is the active one for rips. Very sensible approach. I guess the HDX is the same.

I had some weird things happened with the Core reported in the thread on the recent (mid December) release of new Core firmware. It not clear to me that the intention is to only have one Music Store, but the implementation may not fully work yet. I believe it will allow you to set another Music Store and then go back to an old one. I am not sure whether you have to set an inactive one as a Music Share to be able to see its contents.

I hope you have fun with your Core and report back either through this thread or the December firmware update thread that many have followed.

Phil

The whole 'Music Stores' thing is completely different to the HDX/US/NS01.  I'm currently Importing Music from the second of the external music stores I had with the NS01. This music store is located on a NAS drive.  The Core is NOT adding it to its music store 'Music', instead it has put it in Downloads in a folder that it has named 'Mq'  (like that - Mq).  

The import is taking a while - after about 12 hours it's on file 13,500 of 145,000 files, so another few days to load up this particular folder which, on the NS01 is one of the external music stores.  I've already imported the first 'New CDs' external music store - the Core placed this into its own music store (HQ/LQ/MQ) so there's 9 artist folders showing up in there (the 9 new CDs I've bought recently and not yet copied to my off-site location).

The other small problem I have is that out of the ten network devices the NS01 sees, the Core sees only three of them and the NS01 is NOT one of them. Coincidentally they are the Linux based ones, I think!  But as it doesn't see the NS01 (Windows based), how I import the albums that are currently sitting on my NS01 would be a mystery.  ...would be a mystery but for the fact I can copy the internal NS01 Music Store onto one of the (Linux based) NAS's that the Core does see and import music from there.  So I can look forward to a good few days of shifting files and folder contents around my network, back and forth.

I'm wondering if the end result is going to justify the hours of work here, or do I give up now and stay with my NS01 for a few more years?

The answer is helped by looking at how the NDS presents the music from the Core:

I have a mix of formats and they are in different network folders / shares- WAV as ripped by HDX/NS01 and residing on the NS01,  FLAC High Def as downloaded into a NAS share, FLAC CD quality as downloaded into a NAS share and MP3's, again in their own NAS share.  I like to know before I press PLAY what I'm going to be listening to. The NS01 gives you the opportunity - I can see 'All music' where everything is combined, I can see 'All CD's' and I can see the other formats in their locations... all on my NDS.  The Core presents everything combined to my NDS so I can't see the album format until it's playing.  (Although the Core itself allows you tio see albums by location - fine of I were playing direct from the Core, but I'm not, the Core is the server to my NDS streamer.

Given the fact that I personally like to sit, on occasion, and brose my Hi-def library r my CD library, the Core doesn't facilitate this... for me.. major problem !

Roger

rjstaines posted:

The whole 'Music Stores' thing is completely different to the HDX/US/NS01.  I'm currently Importing Music from the second of the external music stores I had with the NS01. This music store is located on a NAS drive.  The Core is NOT adding it to its music store 'Music', instead it has put it in Downloads in a folder that it has named 'Mq'  (like that - Mq).  

The import is taking a while - after about 12 hours it's on file 13,500 of 145,000 files, so another few days to load up this particular folder which, on the NS01 is one of the external music stores.  I've already imported the first 'New CDs' external music store - the Core placed this into its own music store (HQ/LQ/MQ) so there's 9 artist folders showing up in there (the 9 new CDs I've bought recently and not yet copied to my off-site location).

The other small problem I have is that out of the ten network devices the NS01 sees, the Core sees only three of them and the NS01 is NOT one of them. Coincidentally they are the Linux based ones, I think!  But as it doesn't see the NS01 (Windows based), how I import the albums that are currently sitting on my NS01 would be a mystery.  ...would be a mystery but for the fact I can copy the internal NS01 Music Store onto one of the (Linux based) NAS's that the Core does see and import music from there.  So I can look forward to a good few days of shifting files and folder contents around my network, back and forth.

I'm wondering if the end result is going to justify the hours of work here, or do I give up now and stay with my NS01 for a few more years?

The answer is helped by looking at how the NDS presents the music from the Core:

I have a mix of formats and they are in different network folders / shares- WAV as ripped by HDX/NS01 and residing on the NS01,  FLAC High Def as downloaded into a NAS share, FLAC CD quality as downloaded into a NAS share and MP3's, again in their own NAS share.  I like to know before I press PLAY what I'm going to be listening to. The NS01 gives you the opportunity - I can see 'All music' where everything is combined, I can see 'All CD's' and I can see the other formats in their locations... all on my NDS.  The Core presents everything combined to my NDS so I can't see the album format until it's playing.  (Although the Core itself allows you tio see albums by location - fine of I were playing direct from the Core, but I'm not, the Core is the server to my NDS streamer.

Given the fact that I personally like to sit, on occasion, and brose my Hi-def library r my CD library, the Core doesn't facilitate this... for me.. major problem !

Roger

Hi Roger

I feel you will be making more lengthy posts as you discover how the Core works. Perhaps the one you will most dislike that you have not mentioned is that artwork is not displayed because of different naming conventions and formats! It hardly makes finding your music easy. 

I too found that importing put the albums in Downloads meaning that no metadata editing is possible. You may feel it’s not worth importing as you don’t getting any benefit, and you fill your disks up with a second third or forth copydepending on your backup policy!

The genre allocations are quite good so this may make it easier to find music.

Stikes me the Core is best for first time streamers.

Phil

Phil Harris said in a post recently that the Core only puts imports that it is completely certain are Naim server rips into its rips folder (MQ almost invariably) and otherwise puts them into the downloads folder.

But not being able to see your NS01 is not right and I suggest you get Naim to log into your PC again and sort it out.

Regarding the separation of hi def recordings from CD rips, yes this is a shortcoming that I have noticed too. I'm not sure how to overcome that.

best

David

David Hendon posted:

Phil Harris said in a post recently that the Core only puts imports that it is completely certain are Naim server rips into its rips folder (MQ almost invariably) and otherwise puts them into the downloads folder.

But not being able to see your NS01 is not right and I suggest you get Naim to log into your PC again and sort it out.

Regarding the separation of hi def recordings from CD rips, yes this is a shortcoming that I have noticed too. I'm not sure how to overcome that.

best

David

It seems libraries from earlier Naim rippers are considered to be of uncertain origin! I bet it doesn’t make an album by album decision on this! I’ve yet to have any response from [@mention:1566878603988063] in the December firmware update thread on a variety of issues I raised.

Phil

Phil

Yes the specific instance I am thinking of was where someone had backed up their US (or maybe was HDX) which then failed and had to have a factory visit for a new HD. In the meantime the OP had bought a Core and tried to restore his backup to the Core. This went ok except the Core insisted on putting the backup into the downloads folder not the Music folder. The OP asked Phil who consulted the developers who gave the answer that I mentioned above.

best

David

I thought i'd add my experience - I'm connecting directly (Naim DC1) to my NDAC so no remote server / NAS issues although i do have an Atom and they seem happy to play with each other

Overall my experience of the Core has been pretty positive. My dealer transferred my music library (approx 750 CDs)  from my HDX and approx 660 had the correct metadata and album artwork, approx 90 had the metadata but incorrect album artwork (which took approx 1 minute per CD to fix). Only 2 CDs weren't recognised at all. Since purchase i've ripped about 30 CDs and all bar one were perfect rips - the one imperfect rip had errors on one track but that plays OK. I must add that i don't listen to a great deal of classical and appreciate that others have had more issues with metadata here.

My two niggles are - a) I feel the app needs more work, isn't especially intuitive to use and I'm not crazy about the look and feel - in many respects i find it a retrograde step from N-Serve and b) the Core has crashed a couple of times (both within an hour), tried relaunching the app to no avail so had had to reboot the Core itself. I'm hoping that this was an isolated experience - it ran perfectly for about 3 weeks before this happened.

David Hendon posted:

Phil

Yes the specific instance I am thinking of was where someone had backed up their US (or maybe was HDX) which then failed and had to have a factory visit for a new HD. In the meantime the OP had bought a Core and tried to restore his backup to the Core. This went ok except the Core insisted on putting the backup into the downloads folder not the Music folder. The OP asked Phil who consulted the developers who gave the answer that I mentioned above.

best

David

Hi David

Neither Roger or I imported from backups. It would be nice to know when it will import rather than copy to Downloads. I’d prefer just to stick with the folder as a share than have a copy. A proper import including display of the original artwork would be worth having. The artwork can’t be more than a few lines of code to check which name and format of the various possibilities exist. Png is clearly better quality, but something is better than nothing.

Phil

Filipe posted:

David Hendon posted:

Phil

Yes the specific instance I am thinking of was where someone had backed up their US (or maybe was HDX) which then failed and had to have a factory visit for a new HD. In the meantime the OP had bought a Core and tried to restore his backup to the Core. This went ok except the Core insisted on putting the backup into the downloads folder not the Music folder. The OP asked Phil who consulted the developers who gave the answer that I mentioned above.

best

David

Hi David

Neither Roger or I imported from backups. It would be nice to know when it will import rather than copy to Downloads. I’d prefer just to stick with the folder as a share than have a copy. A proper import including display of the original artwork would be worth having. The artwork can’t be more than a few lines of code to check which name and format of the various possibilities exist. Png is clearly better quality, but something is better than nothing.

Phil

Phil

Well for example, I used the import function of the Core to copy music over from my Unitiserve and it put all the rips into the Music folder of my Core's internal Music Store and it put all the downloads into the downloads folder of my Core's music store. According to Naim, imports should respect user edits. My experience is that it often does that, but although I haven't bothered to check, I think it looks the CD up again if there isn't a prior user edit and so something that was fine when looked up by the US can end up being different after the import. And cover art seems a particular problem, which isn't an issue for lots of music but is a major problem with classical for reasons that several of us have explained many times! (A cover which says "The Greats - volume 37" isn't as helpful as the original cover that usually shows what the music actually is and who is performing it.)

best

David

David Hendon posted:

Filipe posted:

David Hendon posted:

Phil

Yes the specific instance I am thinking of was where someone had backed up their US (or maybe was HDX) which then failed and had to have a factory visit for a new HD. In the meantime the OP had bought a Core and tried to restore his backup to the Core. This went ok except the Core insisted on putting the backup into the downloads folder not the Music folder. The OP asked Phil who consulted the developers who gave the answer that I mentioned above.

best

David

Hi David

Neither Roger or I imported from backups. It would be nice to know when it will import rather than copy to Downloads. I’d prefer just to stick with the folder as a share than have a copy. A proper import including display of the original artwork would be worth having. The artwork can’t be more than a few lines of code to check which name and format of the various possibilities exist. Png is clearly better quality, but something is better than nothing.

Phil

Phil

Well for example, I used the import function of the Core to copy music over from my Unitiserve and it put all the rips into the Music folder of my Core's internal Music Store and it put all the downloads into the downloads folder of my Core's music store. According to Naim, imports should respect user edits. My experience is that it often does that, but although I haven't bothered to check, I think it looks the CD up again if there isn't a prior user edit and so something that was fine when looked up by the US can end up being different after the import. And cover art seems a particular problem, which isn't an issue for lots of music but is a major problem with classical for reasons that several of us have explained many times! (A cover which says "The Greats - volume 37" isn't as helpful as the original cover that usually shows what the music actually is and who is performing it.)

best

David

Hi David

Thank you for your reply. 

It looks as though part of the certainty check is the import coming from an UnitiServe/HDX internal Store. Shame it seems to distrust a UnitiServe/HDX external Stores.

Phil

That's it... enough is enough.  It's gone back to my dealer... and there it can stay as far as I'm concerned **

What Phil said earlier, I thoroughly agree with... "Stikes me the Core is best for first time streamers."   Anyone coming from the HDX/US/NS01 is almost certainly going to find the difference in presentation (if not functionality) too much to live with.

I have to tell you...  most of us IT folks are fairly patient and understanding, and I count myself as such... but this new Core device tests the patience of the best of us.

To all first time streaming enthusiasts who bought a Core already... you made a great choice. 

To all would-be Core converts from existing Naim server users...  whoah, stop and consider carefully before jumping...- the water might be colder than you think.

Roger

** until such time as Naim sorts out the firmware and improves the user interface.

David Hendon posted:

Filipe posted:

The Workgroup field may be set to NAIM under Manage Music -> Music Share Settings. I set to WORKGROUP as I am Windows based. It may work for you.

Phil

It shouldn't make any difference because Workgroups ended with Windows XP and anyway the Core is Linux not Windows....

best

David

Hi David

I had an issue with the Core - it started playing and then stopped repeatedly. Last night I turned it off to cool down! I had earlier rejigged the network to put the Cisco 2960 8tc in a better place for domestic bliss (the SQ through the UnitiServe is blissful now and better than the CDX2 with this switch ????). 

Turning it on just now it didn’t find any stores. I looked at the network setting and found that from being blank it had set the Workgroup to NAIM. So I set it WORKGROUP and all is well again, but it is rebuilding it database and I have not tried playing anything yet! I had set it to blank after your response above, and it seemed happy.

If as you say these fields don’t have any use since the move to Linux then why would the development team include them? Roger had a problem which behinds the scenes tinkering by Phil Harris resolved!????

Phil

Hi Phil

All very good questions! And interesting too. I can't explain the workgroup point at all. My impression is that the latest firmware update has not really helped us, and is also not actually stable, but I expect that Naim will sort it eventually, especially as a lot of the code is common to the Star.

My impression of lack of stability is partly caused by the fact I just had my first crash of my Core in a year. It was working fine in network standby, and I was playing stuff stored on it.  I could browse, search etc but when I tried to wake it so as to be able rip a new CD I found it wouldn't come out of standby nor indeed go into deep sleep. I restarted it by pulling the Powerline Lite out of the wall socket and a few seconds later it was working properly again. It shouldn't do that!

A few days ago I found my Unitiserve had crashed; it was up and working fine but I couldn't turn it off by pressing the logo. I had to do a brute force powerdown. Anyway I've left it off now. But maybe there was a power brownout when I wasn't looking, although that most sensitive of power monitors, the clock in our microwave oven, hadn't reset itself!

best

David

rjstaines posted:

That's it... enough is enough.  It's gone back to my dealer... and there it can stay as far as I'm concerned **

 

What Phil said earlier, I thoroughly agree with... "Stikes me the Core is best for first time streamers."   Anyone coming from the HDX/US/NS01 is almost certainly going to find the difference in presentation (if not functionality) too much to live with.

I have to tell you...  most of us IT folks are fairly patient and understanding, and I count myself as such... but this new Core device tests the patience of the best of us.

To all first time streaming enthusiasts who bought a Core already... you made a great choice. 

To all would-be Core converts from existing Naim server users...  whoah, stop and consider carefully before jumping...- the water might be colder than you think.

Roger

** until such time as Naim sorts out the firmware and improves the user interface.

Well I’m baffled. I had a Unitiserve and swapped for a Core 6 months or so ago. I migrated everything from the Serve and this worked first time - OK some bits and pieces of artwork to tidy up and that was it. It’s worked flawlessly since. I must take another look at the rack - perhaps it’s not a Core at all. Sorry you’ve had such a bad experience but I did thought it strange you invested in one given your previous doubts.

David Hendon posted:

Hi Phil

All very good questions! And interesting too. I can't explain the workgroup point at all. .......

My impression of lack of stability is partly caused by the fact I just had my first crash of my Core in a year. It was working fine in network standby, and I was playing stuff stored on it.  I could browse, search etc but when I tried to wake it so as to be able rip a new CD I found it wouldn't come out of standby nor indeed go into deep sleep. I restarted it by pulling the Powerline Lite out of the wall socket and a few seconds later it was working properly again. It shouldn't do that!

".....

best

David

Hi David

l had something like this when I first started using the demo Core. It took a few cooling off periods before it wanted to rip. Ditto the auto Standby can stop working. The list goes on, and while people with an IT background might sus things out, it can be frustrating.

My Core is playing again! I think there is a failure to synchronise changeable settings immediately in some circumstances. This would give the impression that the Workgroup field makes no difference, but when the software belated uses the new setting things go wrong. In contrast if the setting is wrong it can’t function until it is changed. 

You may remember in the other thread I remarked on highly asynchronous way the Core and the UnitiServe work without there being any good way to monitor progress.

I may have got some wires twisted or the Core has been forced to properly rebuild it database but it does now seem to have all the UnitiServe cover art! [@mention:1566878603900064], Roger don’t let this be the reason for returning your Core. 

Phil

Filipe posted:

David Hendon posted:

Filipe posted:

The Workgroup field may be set to NAIM under Manage Music -> Music Share Settings. I set to WORKGROUP as I am Windows based. It may work for you.

Phil

It shouldn't make any difference because Workgroups ended with Windows XP and anyway the Core is Linux not Windows....

best

David

Hi David

I had an issue with the Core - it started playing and then stopped repeatedly. Last night I turned it off to cool down! I had earlier rejigged the network to put the Cisco 2960 8tc in a better place for domestic bliss (the SQ through the UnitiServe is blissful now and better than the CDX2 with this switch ????). 

Turning it on just now it didn’t find any stores. I looked at the network setting and found that from being blank it had set the Workgroup to NAIM. So I set it WORKGROUP and all is well again, but it is rebuilding it database and I have not tried playing anything yet! I had set it to blank after your response above, and it seemed happy.

If as you say these fields don’t have any use since the move to Linux then why would the development team include them? Roger had a problem which behinds the scenes tinkering by Phil Harris resolved!????

Phil

Just for the record it wasn't Phil Harris who dialled into my Core, it was a nice gentleman named Richard;  I believe he's one of the firmware development team.  The tweak he made allowed my Core to see three out of the ten network devices I have... these three are all Linux based, unfortunately the NS01 (a Windows based device) wasn't one of them. 

I have no doubt the network issues I was seeing will be resolved quickly and that the Core will develop into the brilliant server it promises to be...  but for now, even the attraction of a reduced price ex-dem machine is to be resisted.   

Sooo would it be recommended for someone moving from a Mac based system? I like the thought of the Core and using it as a player into a dac but of course... I have my reservations. 

if you want to have headaches....why not

Mayor West posted:

Sooo would it be recommended for someone moving from a Mac based system? I like the thought of the Core and using it as a player into a dac but of course... I have my reservations. 

I would recommend the Core still Mayor West,the only reason I initially had problems with mine,was I overfilled the internal hard drive right off the bat.I have an external 3TB drive plugged in to mine,and a 1 TB SSD inside the Core...which I would recommend that you leave strictly for ripped CDs off the Core itself.Reading between the lines of your inquiries about the Qutest also.i would say Core>Qutest would be a fabulous way to go.This is based on my demo of the Hugo 2,fed from my Core.I have a total of 1100 albums,and I can’t see needing to add that many more,where some of these guys get over 10,000 albums blows me away.

Ravenswood10 posted:

rjstaines posted:

That's it... enough is enough.  It's gone back to my dealer... and there it can stay as far as I'm concerned **

 

What Phil said earlier, I thoroughly agree with... "Stikes me the Core is best for first time streamers."   Anyone coming from the HDX/US/NS01 is almost certainly going to find the difference in presentation (if not functionality) too much to live with.

I have to tell you...  most of us IT folks are fairly patient and understanding, and I count myself as such... but this new Core device tests the patience of the best of us.

To all first time streaming enthusiasts who bought a Core already... you made a great choice. 

To all would-be Core converts from existing Naim server users...  whoah, stop and consider carefully before jumping...- the water might be colder than you think.

Roger

** until such time as Naim sorts out the firmware and improves the user interface.

Well I’m baffled. I had a Unitiserve and swapped for a Core 6 months or so ago. I migrated everything from the Serve and this worked first time - OK some bits and pieces of artwork to tidy up and that was it. It’s worked flawlessly since. I must take another look at the rack - perhaps it’s not a Core at all. Sorry you’ve had such a bad experience but I did thought it strange you invested in one given your previous doubts.

A very valid comment Ravenswood, and one that requires a response...

Based on comments in a previous thread, I had decided that it was too early in the product life cycle to buy one, and that I'd keep my NS01 for a while longer.  And then came a call from my dealer - his demo Core was up for grabs at an attractive price, did I want it?   First reaction was 'No thanks' but then I got to thinking... 1. this server will become (or already is) the definitive Naim offering - you want a server? Here's the Core..  2. the problems discussed on the other thread would be resolved fairly quickly in a firmware update or two, so I can live with this,  3. That's a very attractive (ex-dem) price and the future price of the Core is only going to go in one direction, and ex-dem Cores do not grow on trees, so why not?   ...and in a moment of weakness (?) I went and bought this particuilar Core.

And that is how come I acquired this potentially wonderful device  (which, incidentally looks totally out of place on a Fraim full of classic series boxes with green lights).   In the end, my frustration with the lack of features and functionality ( and network connectivity) became greater than my joy at having saved a few shillings on current (and future) retail, and back it went.

If I were a betting man, I'd be wagering on the marketing girls & boys in Naim having an input to a significant upgrade in the Core's functionality, to incorporate much more of the functionality of the Windows based servers (HDX, US, NS0x) in the next couple of years.  As was said previously - Core is a wonderful entry level server, but it needs to be much cleverer that it is right now if it's to satisfy those of us who have anything like a substantial and carefully catalogued music collection.

PS - as a user-interface designer for some large international brands in a previous life, I had thought of mentioning my availability for contract work to the powers that be in the Naim world... but then I thought "Naah, Salisbury is far too long a commute from the North West."