Has your Core gone off into its own world ?

I think one of the problems Naim has suffered here is that public beta testing (as distinct from staff/dealer beta testing) is quite limited. There are relatively few of us active in beta testing Cores and by the nature of the task, such beta testing that we do is necessarily limited. For example one really doesn't want to factory reset one's Core after a firmware update, put in a new HD, format it and set about importing one's music collection from scratch again (although I did do that twice in the early days). Also I suspect that most people who would be interested in beta testing streaming products will have a home network that is mostly sorted and be networking savvy, so that they won't see many of the problems that may later occur in the wider customer base.

But we do seem to get unrelated new problems introduced along with feature changes and this suggests to me that Naim's formal regression testing isn't thorough enough. This will be especially important in the world of the new Unitis where they are technically extremely complex and where the reputation of a product or worse the whole brand can be ruined by a few people having an unexpected bad experience.

The old adage that it's hard to win a good reputation and trivially easy to lose it is truer than ever in this new world.

best

David

Mayor West posted:

Sooo would it be recommended for someone moving from a Mac based system? I like the thought of the Core and using it as a player into a dac but of course... I have my reservations. 

Potentially, I would say so, but not if you want any web based services, as it doesn't even have iRadio like the Unitiserve, so strictly for local streaming only.

rjstaines posted:

Ravenswood10 posted:

rjstaines posted:

That's it... enough is enough.  It's gone back to my dealer... and there it can stay as far as I'm concerned **

 

What Phil said earlier, I thoroughly agree with... "Stikes me the Core is best for first time streamers."   Anyone coming from the HDX/US/NS01 is almost certainly going to find the difference in presentation (if not functionality) too much to live with.

I have to tell you...  most of us IT folks are fairly patient and understanding, and I count myself as such... but this new Core device tests the patience of the best of us.

To all first time streaming enthusiasts who bought a Core already... you made a great choice. 

To all would-be Core converts from existing Naim server users...  whoah, stop and consider carefully before jumping...- the water might be colder than you think.

Roger

** until such time as Naim sorts out the firmware and improves the user interface.

Well I’m baffled. I had a Unitiserve and swapped for a Core 6 months or so ago. I migrated everything from the Serve and this worked first time - OK some bits and pieces of artwork to tidy up and that was it. It’s worked flawlessly since. I must take another look at the rack - perhaps it’s not a Core at all. Sorry you’ve had such a bad experience but I did thought it strange you invested in one given your previous doubts.

A very valid comment Ravenswood, and one that requires a response...

Based on comments in a previous thread, I had decided that it was too early in the product life cycle to buy one, and that I'd keep my NS01 for a while longer.  And then came a call from my dealer - his demo Core was up for grabs at an attractive price, did I want it?   First reaction was 'No thanks' but then I got to thinking... 1. this server will become (or already is) the definitive Naim offering - you want a server? Here's the Core..  2. the problems discussed on the other thread would be resolved fairly quickly in a firmware update or two, so I can live with this,  3. That's a very attractive (ex-dem) price and the future price of the Core is only going to go in one direction, and ex-dem Cores do not grow on trees, so why not?   ...and in a moment of weakness (?) I went and bought this particuilar Core.

And that is how come I acquired this potentially wonderful device  (which, incidentally looks totally out of place on a Fraim full of classic series boxes with green lights).   In the end, my frustration with the lack of features and functionality ( and network connectivity) became greater than my joy at having saved a few shillings on current (and future) retail, and back it went.

If I were a betting man, I'd be wagering on the marketing girls & boys in Naim having an input to a significant upgrade in the Core's functionality, to incorporate much more of the functionality of the Windows based servers (HDX, US, NS0x) in the next couple of years.  As was said previously - Core is a wonderful entry level server, but it needs to be much cleverer that it is right now if it's to satisfy those of us who have anything like a substantial and carefully catalogued music collection.

PS - as a user-interface designer for some large international brands in a previous life, I had thought of mentioning my availability for contract work to the powers that be in the Naim world... but then I thought "Naah, Salisbury is far too long a commute from the North West."    

There’s always teleworking

David Hendon posted:

I think one of the problems Naim has suffered here is that public beta testing (as distinct from staff/dealer beta testing) is quite limited. There are relatively few of us active in beta testing Cores and by the nature of the task, such beta testing that we do is necessarily limited. For example one really doesn't want to factory reset one's Core after a firmware update, put in a new HD, format it and set about importing one's music collection from scratch again (although I did do that twice in the early days). Also I suspect that most people who would be interested in beta testing streaming products will have a home network that is mostly sorted and be networking savvy, so that they won't see many of the problems that may later occur in the wider customer base.

But we do seem to get unrelated new problems introduced along with feature changes and this suggests to me that Naim's formal regression testing isn't thorough enough. This will be especially important in the world of the new Unitis where they are technically extremely complex and where the reputation of a product or worse the whole brand can be ruined by a few people having an unexpected bad experience.

The old adage that it's hard to win a good reputation and trivially easy to lose it is truer than ever in this new world.

best

David

Hi David, I agree with all your words. I think they need a different approach to testing that involves knowledgeable customers. What is important is to be able to systematically log faults, investigate so that you know what is wrong and how to fix it, and test. Even 40 years ago we used to patch telephone systems. Sometimes when the next release came out the updated code didn’t quite get it right. 

I allow NAIM to take analytics, which I would hope enables them to look at diagnostic information. Currently, it seems the Core doesn’t work as a uPnP server or as a renderer to the NDX + XPSDR I have on loan. The UnitiServe and Twonky are fine as uPnP! I guess they decided to phase releases of basic functionality, and hence this situation.

Phil

 The trouble is I get the distinct feeling Naim think they have got it right with the Core and we have to lump it or leave it.

ChrisSU posted:

Mayor West posted:

Sooo would it be recommended for someone moving from a Mac based system? I like the thought of the Core and using it as a player into a dac but of course... I have my reservations. 

Potentially, I would say so, but not if you want any web based services, as it doesn't even have iRadio like the Unitiserve, so strictly for local streaming only.

I have an nDAC + XPSDR which is really good. You can get really good TIDAL and radio by plugging your iPad into the front USB port. At the moment it sounds better than the NDX + XPSDR which I have on loan. I don’t know why more people don’t go down this route for those services. If there was a good music streamer App for the iPad direct into the nDAC I’d go for it. Perhaps Minim or Asset could come up with something that works with their QNAP or Synology NAS products.

Phil

• I use onkyo player on my iPad to play local high res files,and have used it before as a source into a Hugo,in my main system.Also,I have used the Tidal app on my iPad the same way,yet I do not like it as a long term solution,even though it sounds fantastic,my iPad goes wherever I go (work),so not ideal.

More I read more I like my CD player  

Filipe posted:

 

Currently, it seems the Core doesn’t work as a uPnP server or as a renderer to the NDX + XPSDR I have on loan. The UnitiServe and Twonky are fine as uPnP! I guess they decided to phase releases of basic functionality, and hence this situation.

Phil

Phil

The Core should work just fine as a upnp server to an NDX and XPS-DR. In fact a friend of mine has one doing exactly that and he prefers the SQ of the Core to his Unitiserve. Similarly you should be able to take a digital connect feed direct from the Core to your NDX as an alternative way of using it. If it doesn't sound right by either or both methods, then something is wrong and your dealer should be able to sort it.

Or am I misunderstanding your comment?

best

David

If you use the Core by Spdif, with my Nova you select the digital input that the Core connects to in the Nova app. Then select the Core from the App, select album and track, press play......from the Core, not the Nova. For Upnp you just select Core as a server from within the Nova app, then select album, track and play.

I use a NDX, XPSdr and Core as the UPnP server, works a treat via IOS app the sound qualitity has the edge over my NAS in my system  all files ripped in WAV.

Gazza posted:

If you use the Core by Spdif, with my Nova you select the digital input that the Core connects to in the Nova app. Then select the Core from the App, select album and track, press play......from the Core, not the Nova. For Upnp you just select Core as a server from within the Nova app, then select album, track and play.

Hi Gazza and David

Thank you for your replies.

Gazza, why do you use the Nova spdif input for the Core? I can select the Core via uPnP and select music but it refuses to play as explained. Looking at the NDX panel it says it is connecting but gives up. If I choose Location rather than Albums or Artist etc the App crashes. I have reinstalled the App, shut down the NDX. Next time I will shut the Core down but it works with the App to play into the nDAC. 

I feel the NDX may not like 3 uPnP servers. Strangely it does not display an image for the Core!

Phil

Phil, when selecting my servers on the NDX I can see my Core, NAS and my PC.

I have a relatively inexpensive belden 1694a cable, about £30 , it sounds a little better than Upnp. However, I do not have a Cisco 2960 etc switch. I did try a Naim dc1 , a little better, but ten times the price. If you can select a digital input from the NDX and then play from the Core, it would get you started, until Naim or your dealer sorts it.

Phil

This really sounds like you have a networking issue. if rebooting the Core and the NDX (and the app) doesn't work, then I would turn the whole lot off, and turn off your router, wait 5 mins and turn it all on again, router first and wait for it to fully start before you turn the Core or NDX on. Then start the app. To play music from the Core by upnp, you have to select NDX in the app, then select upnp, then the music you want to play, then tell it to play.

Or if that doesn't work for whatever reason, you can connect the Core to the NDX by spdif, select NDX in the app, select the digital input you are using, then select the Core in the app, navigate to the music you want to play and press play.

Both of these should work and if either doesn't then I would get your dealer in to help.

best

David

The NDX/upnp selection in the app should show the Core as a upnp server. If it doesn't then there's your problem.

best

David

The reality is, streaming devices can be best handled by a competent computer, its going to be upgradable, updated and on point far quicker than ANY hifi manufacturer can handle.

Not beating on naim here, but usb output from pc/mac into a decent dac seems like the sweet spot to me. Let the hifi producers concentrate on the dac element

garyi posted:

The reality is, streaming devices can be best handled by a competent computer, its going to be upgradable, updated and on point far quicker than ANY hifi manufacturer can handle.

Not beating on naim here, but usb output from pc/mac into a decent dac seems like the sweet spot to me. Let the hifi producers concentrate on the dac element

 

Yes well you can go play computers or you can play music. Not everyone wants to do the first to do the second, which is why there is a market for things like Uniti Core.

best

David

No quarter posted:

Mayor West posted:

Sooo would it be recommended for someone moving from a Mac based system? I like the thought of the Core and using it as a player into a dac but of course... I have my reservations. 

I would recommend the Core still Mayor West,the only reason I initially had problems with mine,was I overfilled the internal hard drive right off the bat.I have an external 3TB drive plugged in to mine,and a 1 TB SSD inside the Core...which I would recommend that you leave strictly for ripped CDs off the Core itself.Reading between the lines of your inquiries about the Qutest also.i would say Core>Qutest would be a fabulous way to go.This is based on my demo of the Hugo 2,fed from my Core.I have a total of 1100 albums,and I can’t see needing to add that many more,where some of these guys get over 10,000 albums blows me away.

Thanks for the reply NQ. You are indeed reading between the lines and that's exactly on point... I'm currently with a MacMini/Hugo but would imagine a Core/Qutest should provide a nice, tidy upgrade. I'm attracted to the core as I would hope that by just plugging a hard drive in I would avoid the network issues... 1TB would be plenty for me at present. Your advice has convinced me to at least give it a try at some point

ChrisSU posted:

Mayor West posted:

Sooo would it be recommended for someone moving from a Mac based system? I like the thought of the Core and using it as a player into a dac but of course... I have my reservations. 

Potentially, I would say so, but not if you want any web based services, as it doesn't even have iRadio like the Unitiserve, so strictly for local streaming only.

 Thanks Chris. A local player is the main thing I'm after really... I'm thinking if i wanted to play radio or Spotify I would just use the Mac because its never critical listening for me with any web based services.

David Hendon posted:

The NDX/upnp selection in the app should show the Core as a upnp server. If it doesn't then there's your problem.

best

David

As I said, I see all uPnP servers, but the Core can’t play Albums. Tomorrow evening I will take the router down an restart.

If I wanted to play via the nDAC I would not be demoing the NDX. I’m just letting the NDX + XPSDR run continuously playing from the Unitiserve at the moment.

Phil

David Hendon posted:

garyi posted:

The reality is, streaming devices can be best handled by a competent computer, its going to be upgradable, updated and on point far quicker than ANY hifi manufacturer can handle.

Not beating on naim here, but usb output from pc/mac into a decent dac seems like the sweet spot to me. Let the hifi producers concentrate on the dac element

 

Yes well you can go play computers or you can play music. Not everyone wants to do the first to do the second, which is why there is a market for things like Uniti Core.

best

David

David I am not sure what you are trying to say here and I am not sure if you are purposely misunderstanding me. I understand that all these devices are 'computers', however a main stream computer is easy to run and an app of which there are many, roon, Jriver, Daphile, etc will deliver what a user wants. For uniti core to offer a benefit to a user, it needs to be easier to run and understand than a PC, which in many cases the user will be more than used to using anyway, its every day after all.

Assuming that a uniti core is as easy to use and with as much functionality, fair enough, but that does not seem to be the case right now.

Is a uniticore easier to use than down loading say roon for your pc?

garyi posted:

David Hendon posted:

garyi posted:

The reality is, streaming devices can be best handled by a competent computer, its going to be upgradable, updated and on point far quicker than ANY hifi manufacturer can handle.

Not beating on naim here, but usb output from pc/mac into a decent dac seems like the sweet spot to me. Let the hifi producers concentrate on the dac element

 

Yes well you can go play computers or you can play music. Not everyone wants to do the first to do the second, which is why there is a market for things like Uniti Core.

best

David

David I am not sure what you are trying to say here and I am not sure if you are purposely misunderstanding me. I understand that all these devices are 'computers', however a main stream computer is easy to run and an app of which there are many, roon, Jriver, Daphile, etc will deliver what a user wants. For uniti core to offer a benefit to a user, it needs to be easier to run and understand than a PC, which in many cases the user will be more than used to using anyway, its every day after all.

Assuming that a uniti core is as easy to use and with as much functionality, fair enough, but that does not seem to be the case right now.

Is a uniticore easier to use than down loading say roon for your pc?

I'm not misunderstanding you, deliberately or otherwise. But I think you completely underestimate how some (many?) people simply don't want to mess about with a computer as part of how they listen to music.

Even though the boxes are full of computers, when I sit down to listen to music or have it on in the background even, I really don't want to have a PC anywhere involved at all. I don't care how easy it is to put software onto a PC. That simply isn't what I want to do.

So even with all the failures in design and implementation, the Core is preferable to me.

best

David

Indeed. I am using a laptop all day long for work just as many of us probably do. Using another one for listening to music, watching television, or cooking and running for that matter, is a bit beyond me as well. The question remains for me centered around absolute SQ.  

Chag -

I agree. I love the simplicity of ripping a CD on the Core (contrary to some views!) and had much the same experience with my old Unitiserve and before that the HDX. I spend hours every week in front of a computer for work so the last thing I want to do is spend evenings and weekends sat in front of a VDU....except that is when I want to buy the odd hi-res file. Computers have their uses but I like to keep them away from the listening roomtogether with their noisy power supplies.

David Hendon posted:

garyi posted:

David Hendon posted:

garyi posted:

The reality is, streaming devices can be best handled by a competent computer, its going to be upgradable, updated and on point far quicker than ANY hifi manufacturer can handle.

Not beating on naim here, but usb output from pc/mac into a decent dac seems like the sweet spot to me. Let the hifi producers concentrate on the dac element

 

Yes well you can go play computers or you can play music. Not everyone wants to do the first to do the second, which is why there is a market for things like Uniti Core.

best

David

David I am not sure what you are trying to say here and I am not sure if you are purposely misunderstanding me. I understand that all these devices are 'computers', however a main stream computer is easy to run and an app of which there are many, roon, Jriver, Daphile, etc will deliver what a user wants. For uniti core to offer a benefit to a user, it needs to be easier to run and understand than a PC, which in many cases the user will be more than used to using anyway, its every day after all.

Assuming that a uniti core is as easy to use and with as much functionality, fair enough, but that does not seem to be the case right now.

Is a uniticore easier to use than down loading say roon for your pc?

I'm not misunderstanding you, deliberately or otherwise. But I think you completely underestimate how some (many?) people simply don't want to mess about with a computer as part of how they listen to music.

Even though the boxes are full of computers, when I sit down to listen to music or have it on in the background even, I really don't want to have a PC anywhere involved at all. I don't care how easy it is to put software onto a PC. That simply isn't what I want to do.

So even with all the failures in design and implementation, the Core is preferable to me.

best

David

David, the same here had the Core for a year just love it's simplicity and sound quality.

I was originally using the Android APP this was causing problems with the music stopping and to be fair to Naim the after sales and service along with the dealers assistance on this matter was particularly outstanding.The problem was a clash between the Core and NDX when using this APP since changing to the IOS APP this problem has not reoccurred.This is my simple explanation  but Naim did go into the technical details of why this was happening but this was way beyond my knowledge of this sort of thing..

Naim did explain that there are so many variables with individual customers set ups that it is impossible to pick up every glitch that might occur and this was one of them.