New uniti - does max volume affecting quality?

I had similar thoughts myself and now leave it set to max, unless (from bitter experience) I’m having a party or a visit from my rather over enthusiastic young nephew (who loves playing with the rotary volume control).

A suggestion:  Play some music at your preferred volume and, while listening carefully, vary the max volume setting in the app, but, obviously, keeping it above your current volume.  See if you can hear any change in SQ as you do so.  Even better, get someone else to change the max volume and see if you can detect the change.  I assume it's possible to do this experiment with a Uniti.  You can definitely do so with a 272; I have tried it and could not hear any difference.

Roger

Peakman posted:

A suggestion:  Play some music at your preferred volume and, while listening carefully, vary the max volume setting in the app, but, obviously, keeping it above your current volume.  See if you can hear any change in SQ as you do so.  Even better, get someone else to change the max volume and see if you can detect the change.  I assume it's possible to do this experiment with a Uniti.  You can definitely do so with a 272; I have tried it and could not hear any difference.

Roger

The problem is when you switch the max volume setting, because it's relative, the current output volume changes too. It'd be impossible to seamlessly A/B.

Peakman posted:

A suggestion:  Play some music at your preferred volume and, while listening carefully, vary the max volume setting in the app, but, obviously, keeping it above your current volume.  See if you can hear any change in SQ as you do so.  Even better, get someone else to change the max volume and see if you can detect the change.  I assume it's possible to do this experiment with a Uniti.  You can definitely do so with a 272; I have tried it and could not hear any difference.

Not sure if it’s the same with the new Uniti as with the 272 and my old UnitiQute, but Naim confirmed to me that the max volume setting is just that - a maximum volume.  So if you set it at (say) 50, the app just can’t increase the volume past 50 but that’s exactly the same setting as if you have the max set to 100 and set the volume to 50.

In addition the volume offset you can set per input is just adding (or subtracting) to the volume setting ... so setting volume to 50 with an offset of +5 is identical to setting a volume of 55 with no offset.

As I recall the max volume is only relevant to the app too ... you can still increase the volume above the maximum using the remote control or the front panel knob.

It's not supposed to make a difference but for the short time I had my Move it certainly made a difference and sounded better at 100%.

This has been mentioned on another thread and a few people are of exactly the same findings.

dave-mac posted:

Peakman posted:

A suggestion:  Play some music at your preferred volume and, while listening carefully, vary the max volume setting in the app, but, obviously, keeping it above your current volume.  See if you can hear any change in SQ as you do so.  Even better, get someone else to change the max volume and see if you can detect the change.  I assume it's possible to do this experiment with a Uniti.  You can definitely do so with a 272; I have tried it and could not hear any difference.

Roger

The problem is when you switch the max volume setting, because it's relative, the current output volume changes too. It'd be impossible to seamlessly A/B.

Sorry, at least on a 272 this isn't so.  I originally tested this because someone on a another thread reckoned changing the max volume made a difference to the playing volume on a Uniti, but on the 272 I found the playing volume (and SQ) stayed exactly the same when the max volume was changed.  (Same on my Muso Qb; I've just tried it.)  Naim themselves say that the max volume setting is simply a volume limiter for the 272 and, I think, for the Uniti series as well.  If this isn't the case, it suggests that something is not working to spec and that perhaps a call to the dealer or Naim themselves is in order.

Roger

Peakman posted:

dave-mac posted:

Peakman posted:

A suggestion:  Play some music at your preferred volume and, while listening carefully, vary the max volume setting in the app, but, obviously, keeping it above your current volume.  See if you can hear any change in SQ as you do so.  Even better, get someone else to change the max volume and see if you can detect the change.  I assume it's possible to do this experiment with a Uniti.  You can definitely do so with a 272; I have tried it and could not hear any difference.

Roger

The problem is when you switch the max volume setting, because it's relative, the current output volume changes too. It'd be impossible to seamlessly A/B.

Sorry, at least on a 272 this isn't so.  I originally tested this because someone on a another thread reckoned changing the max volume made a difference to the playing volume on a Uniti, but on the 272 I found the playing volume (and SQ) stayed exactly the same when the max volume was changed.  (Same on my Muso Qb; I've just tried it.)  Naim themselves say that the max volume setting is simply a volume limiter for the 272 and, I think, for the Uniti series as well.  If this isn't the case, it suggests that something is not working to spec and that perhaps a call to the dealer or Naim themselves is in order.

Roger

I get the impression that the new Unitis are different in this respect from the old platform. I haven't bothered to listen for it too much, but my impression on the Atom is that is sounds better with the volume limit set to maximum, as a few others have reported. I don't recall this being the case with the old streamers I've heard.

dave-mac posted:

Is there any downside to using the max volume setting in the app? I just ran a quick listening 'test' at 70db with max set at 100, and again with max set at 50 (adjusting the volume output on the hardware to compensate). It seemed to sound better with max set at 100, almost sounding like an underpowered amp at 50.

I like the idea of the max volume safety feature, but is the perceived sound difference in my head?

I wondered about this too, but with youngsters around decided not to set to max 100 but may try this - the default is 85 I believe.

Eloise posted:

Peakman posted:

A suggestion:  Play some music at your preferred volume and, while listening carefully, vary the max volume setting in the app, but, obviously, keeping it above your current volume.  See if you can hear any change in SQ as you do so.  Even better, get someone else to change the max volume and see if you can detect the change.  I assume it's possible to do this experiment with a Uniti.  You can definitely do so with a 272; I have tried it and could not hear any difference.

Not sure if it’s the same with the new Uniti as with the 272 and my old UnitiQute, but Naim confirmed to me that the max volume setting is just that - a maximum volume.  So if you set it at (say) 50, the app just can’t increase the volume past 50 but that’s exactly the same setting as if you have the max set to 100 and set the volume to 50.

In addition the volume offset you can set per input is just adding (or subtracting) to the volume setting ... so setting volume to 50 with an offset of +5 is identical to setting a volume of 55 with no offset.

As I recall the max volume is only relevant to the app too ... you can still increase the volume above the maximum using the remote control or the front panel knob.

It's different on the Uniti series, at least with the Atom and Nova I've used.

The display will show volume from 0 to 100 irrespective of the maximum volume set and increasing/decreasing from the default of 85 affects loudness at a given displayed 'volume' setting.

I wondered how this might affect SQ but have not really tested having assumed the volume would be adjusted in the digital domain with enough accuracy that it shouldn't really affect the SQ, but I guess it depends on the way this has been implemented.

The lack of a proper manual with the Uniti series doesn't help either.

Popeye posted:

It's not supposed to make a difference but for the short time I had my Move it certainly made a difference and sounded better at 100%.

This has been mentioned on another thread and a few people are of exactly the same findings.

+1. It does make a difference, clearly noticable on my Atom. Volume set on max level at 100 sounded way better (more headroom) vs the default 85 in the app, I could clearly hear the difference, as someone told it here, the Atom sounded like somewhat underpowered when setting the max output to less than 100. 

For those detecting a difference, how are you ensuring a consistent playback level while doing the test?

Alley Cat posted: 

I wondered how this might affect SQ but have not really tested having assumed the volume would be adjusted in the digital domain with enough accuracy that it shouldn't really affect the SQ, but I guess it depends on the way this has been implemented. 

The volume ISN'T adjusted in the digital domain though ... the Uniti devices (including the new ones) all have digitally controlled analogue volume controls.

Eloise posted:

Alley Cat posted: 

I wondered how this might affect SQ but have not really tested having assumed the volume would be adjusted in the digital domain with enough accuracy that it shouldn't really affect the SQ, but I guess it depends on the way this has been implemented. 

The volume ISN'T adjusted in the digital domain though ... the Uniti devices (including the new ones) all have digitally controlled analogue volume controls.

I know they do and that’s what’s odd. It’s quite obvious when you listen however!

Eloise posted:

Alley Cat posted: 

I wondered how this might affect SQ but have not really tested having assumed the volume would be adjusted in the digital domain with enough accuracy that it shouldn't really affect the SQ, but I guess it depends on the way this has been implemented. 

The volume ISN'T adjusted in the digital domain though ... the Uniti devices (including the new ones) all have digitally controlled analogue volume controls.

I'd not realised that - could have sworn I'd read the analogue inputs got digitised so assumed the pre-amp section worked digitally processing analogue and digital sources, adjusting volume digitally before outputting to the analogue pre/power stages.  Why bother with digitising analogue inputs just to decompress again I wonder?

Alley Cat posted:

 

SNIP

 

I'd not realised that - could have sworn I'd read the analogue inputs got digitised so assumed the pre-amp section worked digitally processing analogue and digital sources, adjusting volume digitally before outputting to the analogue pre/power stages.  Why bother with digitising analogue inputs just to decompress again I wonder?

Although I’ve not used any of the analogue inputs on my Nova, my TMS plays through the olive system downstairs, my understanding is that the analogue inputs can be uused as sources for Multiroom, so there is that advantage.

Eoink posted:

Alley Cat posted:

 

SNIP

 

I'd not realised that - could have sworn I'd read the analogue inputs got digitised so assumed the pre-amp section worked digitally processing analogue and digital sources, adjusting volume digitally before outputting to the analogue pre/power stages.  Why bother with digitising analogue inputs just to decompress again I wonder?

Although I’ve not used any of the analogue inputs on my Nova, my TMS plays through the olive system downstairs, my understanding is that the analogue inputs can be uused as sources for Multiroom, so there is that advantage.

That makes sense now - thanks.

Popeye posted:

Eloise posted:

Alley Cat posted: 

I wondered how this might affect SQ but have not really tested having assumed the volume would be adjusted in the digital domain with enough accuracy that it shouldn't really affect the SQ, but I guess it depends on the way this has been implemented. 

The volume ISN'T adjusted in the digital domain though ... the Uniti devices (including the new ones) all have digitally controlled analogue volume controls.

I know they do and that’s what’s odd. It’s quite obvious when you listen however!

Best thing to do is try getting someone else to adjust it (or not adjust it).  It may be psychological not real. (Or you’re not actually getting the same levels).

I think someone on another thread (possibly Obsydian) asked Naim about this and they said that the Nova has a simple maximum volume limiter.  It would also appear contrary to the Naim philosophy of prioritising sound quality to send out a box with a default setting giving compromised SQ (if the default is 85 and 100 sounds better.)  If this really is the case, it would surely put me off buying one.  Perhaps someone from HQ might like to comment?  However, as I do not currently have a Nova or Atom, I guess I should shut up on this topic.

Roger