Where to go (if anywhere) from NAC52?

Beachcomber posted:

Current system is NDX/NAC52/NAP500/S600.

The NAC52 is pretty old and has not been serviced.  Nonetheless it all sounds pretty good - but I have a bit of a NaimNiggle that things might be even better if I do something about the NAC52, or possibly the NAP500.  Options are Service the NAC52 (it is pre-POTS 8, I believe), change to 252 or (I don't think I can do this) 552 (2nd hand in either case - can't afford new) or some other NAC, or go to a passive pre-amp (in which case I have no idea what) - I use the NDX almost exclusively as source now, haven't touched the CDX for a long time (could sell the CDX and its XPS power supply to help funds).  Or I could DR the 500.  Or stick with what I have (after all, I'm not unhappy with it - I just speculate that it wouldn't take a huge amount to improve things even more - I feel that there is something missing in the mid-range.  For example, on Dire Straits' Private Investigations, the breaking glass is barely audible, whereas on my previous system (active SBLs using 135s) it was very audible).

What does the team think?

there are 3 things

1) DR the 500 (which I would do first)

2) Upgrade from NDX to NDS

3) last but certainly not least, a Superlumina DIN/XLR, interconnect from NDX to preamp, and speaker cable

About the breaking glass, try the Superlumina speaker cable.

Beachcomber posted:

............. I feel that there is something missing in the mid-range.  For example, on Dire Straits' Private Investigations, the breaking glass is barely audible, whereas on my previous system (active SBLs using 135s) it was very audible).

What does the team think?

Was the previous system using the CDX and not NDX? Might explain it. Or the active's having a stronger mid-presence? How old is the 500? Service time maybe.

As per upgrades the best balance will come from a 552. If that is definitely out of the equation for many years on a cost basis then I would service and upgrade the 52 first.

Whatever you spend on it will likely be mostly recouped if/when you eventually sell it on for a 552.

The breaking glass is crystal clear on my system which has a 52 & NAP135s.  If it is unclear for you, then I suspect that the issue is either that the 52 needs a service (my 52 did after 15 years) or more likely your system may benefit from a source upgrade.  My CDS3/555PS manages to keep track of the glass fragments.  Hence, it might be worth enhancing the NDX (with external power supply or DAC), or trying a posher streamer such as the NDS.

Hope this helps. FT

Budget? 

Some suggestions, but obviously depends on available funds:

keep the NDX as renderer, add Dave DAC and if you have no analog sources simply discard the 52 (to part fund Dave). Some people like what a preamp brings, others lime the directness of less electronics - simple to try by getting Dave on loan to audition.

Half price alternative to Dave is HugoTT.

Half price alternative to HugoTT is Hugo2

intermediate alternative between Hugo2 and  HugoTT is Naim DAC V1

Alba1320 posted:

 

BTW, when did you last 'strip the system down', and clean all the contacts, 'attend' to cable dressing etc. - if it's been a while, it might be worth doing this first, and see if that makes any difference.

This is what came to my mind first. Its free and fun.

I upgraded recently from 52 (post POTS-8) to 552. I realise it's the obvious move, but the 552 really is something special. There are several posts on here from when Simon in Suffolk recently stepped up to the 552. The trouble is they don't come up that often on the secondhand market. 

If you were to consider a passive preamp, it might be worth getting a demo of what Max Townsend is offering. I think Jon Honeyball has posted favourably about it on here.

Having come a similar path to you i.e. 52/135's to 52/500 to 552/500, my advice would be to think long and hard about your next move. If you decide to go down the 552 route you'll need a fair bit of money and a very good source to make the most of the 552's capabilities. If you can afford it then why not? However, a pots 8 serviced 52 is still a damn good pre-amp and will get you to about 75% or 80% of the magic a 552 can produce, which is not bad. The 52/135's will always be my default system if ever I have to go backwards. I think it is a really beautifully balanced piece of kit that is very hard to better.

No PS on the NDX mentioned - I assume that means the XPS on the CD player is a first-gen model?  That does sound like some kind of fish with a small head and big everything else (i.e. the source, as good as it is, isn't up to the rest of the kit).

Service the 52 and stick a compatible power supply on the NDX would be my first and second thoughts.

Some no cost options: As part of a system strip down and rebuild, turn the balance and volume controls back and forwards using the full range say 10 times to clean the contacts.

Press mute on the second row of buttons. Small improvement but hay it is free!

Pull any unused boards.

Some low cost options: I am not much of cable change person. MAny  times I find one set of compromises are just replaces with a different set of compromises - not always obvious at first.

If you have a gray burndy replace it with the new black one.  

HiLine or at leasts the lavender gray interconnect?  Powerline works well on the 52/ps or supercap. 

analogmusic posted:

Beachcomber posted:

Current system is NDX/NAC52/NAP500/S600.

....I feel that there is something missing in the mid-range.

there are 3 things

1) DR the 500 (which I would do first)

2) Upgrade from NDX to NDS

3) last but certainly not least, a Superlumina DIN/XLR, interconnect from NDX to preamp, and speaker cable

About the breaking glass, try the Superlumina speaker cable.

This advice is closest to where I'd go.

Given the comment about 'something missing in mid-range' then what is needed is a really good Pre - I'm presuming the 52 is in top-condition so that should not be a weak-link.

The Source to an NDS would be my first thing to try, as it will give a fuller mid. Also the DR to the 500 gives a far better mid. And as mentioned, try the SL cables as these work well with this system.

And all on Fraim and preferably two stacks will give a system very musically happy IMO.

DB.

 

there are 3 things

1) DR the 500 (which I would do first)

2) Upgrade from NDX to NDS

3) last but certainly not least, a Superlumina DIN/XLR, interconnect from NDX to preamp, and speaker cable

About the breaking glass, try the Superlumina speaker cable.

 

Interesting - thanks.  IMA I thought DR the 500 first too - but wasn't sure whether that would be more cost-effective than servicing the 52 or possibly replacing it.  Wasn't sure about NDX to NDS - is it that much better?  Or would a separate DAC do as well?

Cheers

Steve

 

This advice is closest to where I'd go.

Given the comment about 'something missing in mid-range' then what is needed is a really good Pre - I'm presuming the 52 is in top-condition so that should not be a weak-link.

The Source to an NDS would be my first thing to try, as it will give a fuller mid. Also the DR to the 500 gives a far better mid. And as mentioned, try the SL cables as these work well with this system.

And all on Fraim and preferably two stacks will give a system very musically happy IMO.

DB.

Ah - well the 52 is old (I've had it for 20 years or so and it hasn't been serviced or upgraded).  I guess I should try some cables - IMA I'm a bit of a sceptic, but haven't tried them so have no evidence to support that scepticism.  Sounds like DR is the first step, possibly followed with a service for the 52.  Has the advantage that I don't have to tell SWMBO that I've replaced anything...

I would get the 52 serviced first, it will be needing a few parts replacing, let it burn in for a few weeks, then listen again. Hopefully your dealer might be able to loan you a preamp while it is away.

Just had a look at the service cost for NAC 52 - £249.00 which is much more reasonable than I feared, so could go for that first as you suggest.  Do I need to book it, or can I take it into my local dealer at any time, do you know?

If you are in the U.K., send it to Class A in Sheffield. Give Darran a call. He will turn it round in a few days rather than a few weeks should you sent it to Naim. He’s a lot cheaper too. You need to have both the 52 and the power supply serviced. I suspect it will be a lot more than £249, but it’s the first thing to do. 

Ah - yes, the PS is an extra £225.  

Cheers

Steve

Hello

I am running similar front end. 52/SC > HiLine > NDX/XPSDR

different amp and speakers 250 SBL

had my 52 serviced by Darren last year, it was an instant omg! Moment when I got home, better in all areas and after two weeks running in even better. For the cost I would get it done ASAP.  If you can get to Sheffield he will do it as you wait. 

Couple of other thoughts.

• The XPSDR on the NDX was another revelation. 
• I tested the SL interconnect , it’s on the purchase list. 

Rob 

If I recall correctly, I think the POTS/8 upgrade is an additional cost too, but worth doing. 

Yes, talked to Darren at Class A and POTS/8 upgrade is more expensive than the service.  

And Class A seems to be about the same price as Naim...

Service the 52 and supercap first. Made a huge difference on my Nac 82 and my current 52. Then decide where you want to end up.

Beachcomber posted:

 

This advice is closest to where I'd go.

Given the comment about 'something missing in mid-range' then what is needed is a really good Pre - I'm presuming the 52 is in top-condition so that should not be a weak-link.

The Source to an NDS would be my first thing to try, as it will give a fuller mid. Also the DR to the 500 gives a far better mid. And as mentioned, try the SL cables as these work well with this system.

And all on Fraim and preferably two stacks will give a system very musically happy IMO.

DB.

Ah - well the 52 is old (I've had it for 20 years or so and it hasn't been serviced or upgraded).  I guess I should try some cables - IMA I'm a bit of a sceptic, but haven't tried them so have no evidence to support that scepticism.  Sounds like DR is the first step, possibly followed with a service for the 52.  Has the advantage that I don't have to tell SWMBO that I've replaced anything...

Get the Pre serviced. If it has not been touched for 10 years it will be transformational - if 15+ years then more than that!

The Pre is the most important component in an otherwise balanced system and how well it performs sets the key-note performance for everything else, to the extent money is wasted spent elsewhere it if is not performing near its best IMO. The first high-gain stage and Volume control have a larger impact than many think.

A good Dealer demo with a mix of components of the same overall system price always show a significant emphasis on getting the better Pre in an otherwise balanced system give a better end-result - the Pre gives the needed musical stability and sense of 'calm' that put the listener at ease to enjoy the music. I've always heard the better Pre in the Naim hierarchy of them give more weight, stability and sense of confidence to the presentation - to me it has always been too obvious and you don't want to listen to the better Pre if you can't afford it - unless you think you may be able to later.

Get the Pre serviced!

DB.

So you think I should get the pre serviced, then? :-)  

That sounds like a good plan - and much cheaper than the alternatives.  Probably get the 500 upgraded to DR later.

Cheers

Steve

Have a look on the CLass A in Sheffield website. The cost for 52 service is close to beer money ... well, in Scandinavia then.

£269 each for pre and supercap.  But when I called him he said it was £225 each.