Where to go (if anywhere) from NAC52?

Another vote for getting the pre serviced and brought up to date pots 8 etc huge difference

As HH said, servicing the 52 may well be quite a revelation. Darran at Class A serviced mine, did the Potts8 upgrade and serviced the 52 PS as well. A lot more expensive than £249 but the results in my system (active 250's into SL 2's) was breathtaking.

erm - I've heard all the pre's upto 552, but it was source first for me. I just had to have the Chord Dave when I auditioned it, but strangely my 282 is capable enough to keep me happy (and I don't need a 552), whereas the Hugo sounded broken next to a Chord Dave.

My experience, but understandably not everything will agree.

I do hear what 252 and 552 do, much closer (in the case of 552 very much) to real live music, and I love the sound of 552, but don't need one.... whereas getting a Chord Dave was a "must have".

I don't think the NDX is quite so good to be a final source in your system, the NDS is really a class and league above, and if I didn't have a Chord Dave, it would be an NDS streamer.... 

I also got the "must have" feeling when I auditioned the NDS, the cost was just to much for me (with the matching PS555DR)

Another "must have" for me was upgrading to vertere interconnects between source and preamp.

The Superlumina is even better in a Naim context, but the Vertere Pulse cable are available at more affordable price levels so you might be pleasantly surprised what the NDX is capable of with an interconnect upgrade like Vertere or if funds allow, Superlumina

I discovered the Vertere cables and heard the Superlumina much after I heard the Chord Dave, so I would still have bought the Chord Dave, but in the meantime the cables are much more affordable....

SamS posted:

Beachcomber posted:

............. I feel that there is something missing in the mid-range.  For example, on Dire Straits' Private Investigations, the breaking glass is barely audible, whereas on my previous system (active SBLs using 135s) it was very audible).

What does the team think?

Was the previous system using the CDX and not NDX? Might explain it. Or the active's having a stronger mid-presence? How old is the 500? Service time maybe.

As per upgrades the best balance will come from a 552. If that is definitely out of the equation for many years on a cost basis then I would service and upgrade the 52 first.

Whatever you spend on it will likely be mostly recouped if/when you eventually sell it on for a 552.

Yes, previously it was CDX, plus Rega Planar 3 (the original version).  The 500 is fairly old - if I service it I will get the DR upgrade.  

Cheers

Steve

Foot tapper posted:

The breaking glass is crystal clear on my system which has a 52 & NAP135s.  If it is unclear for you, then I suspect that the issue is either that the 52 needs a service (my 52 did after 15 years) or more likely your system may benefit from a source upgrade.  My CDS3/555PS manages to keep track of the glass fragments.  Hence, it might be worth enhancing the NDX (with external power supply or DAC), or trying a posher streamer such as the NDS.

Hope this helps. FT

While I suspect that upgrading the 52 is a good plan - particularly as it is relatively inexpensive - the glass was breaking nicely before I changed from active SBLs and CDX to the current NDX/500/S600s.  The S600s might, of course, be the culprits, but they sound superb generally, and have good and clear treble.  I doubt that it is the 500 - so that would leave the NDX.  I will have a trial with the CDX and see whether that brings it back.

Alba1320 posted:

On paper, your system looks a little 'light' up front, IMO - improving the source might be worth investigating. Also, as an experiment, try 'firing up' the CDX again, and see what you think about the performance, in comparsion to what you've been used to with the NDX.

 

Interesting.  I thought that he NDX was supposed to be pretty good.  Not sure that I can afford an NDS.  But presumably a DAC would achieve a similar result? But which one?

analogmusic posted:

erm - I've heard all the pre's upto 552, but it was source first for me. I just had to have the Chord Dave when I auditioned it, but strangely my 282 is capable enough to keep me happy (and I don't need a 552), whereas the Hugo sounded broken next to a Chord Dave.

My experience, but understandably not everything will agree.

I do hear what 252 and 552 do, much closer (in the case of 552 very much) to real live music, and I love the sound of 552, but don't need one.... whereas getting a Chord Dave was a "must have".

I don't think the NDX is quite so good to be a final source in your system, the NDS is really a class and league above, and if I didn't have a Chord Dave, it would be an NDS streamer.... 

I also got the "must have" feeling when I auditioned the NDS, the cost was just to much for me (with the matching PS555DR)

 

You were one who had tried Dave without a preamp compared to with one (282?), and preferred with - IIRC there were some aspects you thought better without, other aspects better with, and to you the latter were the most important.

Beachcomber posted:

 

Interesting.  I thought that he NDX was supposed to be pretty good.  Not sure that I can afford an NDS.  But presumably a DAC would achieve a similar result? But which one?

Some suggestions in my earlier post. A popular upgrade on the forum has been adding Hugo to NDX - searching the forum should find quite a bit. (Now H2 has arrived, said by most to be better, and adds a remote control). If you do need/want to keep a preamp, there’s also Qutest, though little on it yet.

Beachcomber posted:

Alba1320 posted:

On paper, your system looks a little 'light' up front, IMO - improving the source might be worth investigating. Also, as an experiment, try 'firing up' the CDX again, and see what you think about the performance, in comparsion to what you've been used to with the NDX.

 

Interesting.  I thought that he NDX was supposed to be pretty good.  Not sure that I can afford an NDS.  But presumably a DAC would achieve a similar result? But which one?

Do you have a psu on the NDX ? XPS or 555 ?

if not I would recommend trying the best you can afforded. 

It depends how NDX is connected. Actually it’s worth trying it with WI FI as opposed to Ethernet cable. 

I tried playing Private Investigation from the CD (through CDX/XPS) and have to say it sounded very similar.  So I don't think that it's the NDX.  That leaves the 52, the 500 or the S600s.  My suspicion is that it's the S600 - they made the biggest change to the sound of the system.  Mostly for the better.  

I think I'll get the 52 and Supercap serviced first, see what that does.

Beachcomber posted:

I tried playing Private Investigation from the CD (through CDX/XPS) and have to say it sounded very similar.  So I don't think that it's the NDX.  That leaves the 52, the 500 or the S600s.  My suspicion is that it's the S600 - they made the biggest change to the sound of the system.  Mostly for the better.  

I think I'll get the 52 and Supercap serviced first, see what that does.

I have S600's too. I found that the BMR's are very revealing, therefore I'm surprised that especially breaking glass is less audible.

I must admit I would be surprised, really.  Yes, the BMRs are amazing.  I love the sound from these speakers generally.  Female vocals particularly are amazing.

Ardbeg10y posted:

Beachcomber posted:

I tried playing Private Investigation from the CD (through CDX/XPS) and have to say it sounded very similar.  So I don't think that it's the NDX.  That leaves the 52, the 500 or the S600s.  My suspicion is that it's the S600 - they made the biggest change to the sound of the system.  Mostly for the better.  

I think I'll get the 52 and Supercap serviced first, see what that does.

I have S600's too. I found that the BMR's are very revealing, therefore I'm surprised that especially breaking glass is less audible.

Which CD is the breaking glass of Private Investigations on? I didn’t hear it on the Alchemy Live  CD, but maybe that’s the point or not! 

Phil

Filipe posted:

Ardbeg10y posted:

Beachcomber posted:

I tried playing Private Investigation from the CD (through CDX/XPS) and have to say it sounded very similar.  So I don't think that it's the NDX.  That leaves the 52, the 500 or the S600s.  My suspicion is that it's the S600 - they made the biggest change to the sound of the system.  Mostly for the better.  

I think I'll get the 52 and Supercap serviced first, see what that does.

I have S600's too. I found that the BMR's are very revealing, therefore I'm surprised that especially breaking glass is less audible.

Which CD is the breaking glass of Private Investigations on? I didn’t hear it on the Alchemy Live  CD, but maybe that’s the point or not! 

Phil

Now that is a very good point - is the mix/mastering the same? Are you using the same copy of the CD (or rip of the same copy) as that with the dominant breaking glass that you recall?

I have some albums where they are completely different, e.g Roger Waters’ Amused to Death with different atmospheric  effects, and I remember an instance comparing CD and vinyl 20 years ago, where we found we had two copies of a Sniff ‘n’ the Tears CD - and were startked to find they sounded different, negating any considerations of difference between CD and vinyl - and the only evident difference on the labelling was that one was pressed on Germany, the other in the UK.

Filipe posted:

Ardbeg10y posted:

Beachcomber posted:

I tried playing Private Investigation from the CD (through CDX/XPS) and have to say it sounded very similar.  So I don't think that it's the NDX.  That leaves the 52, the 500 or the S600s.  My suspicion is that it's the S600 - they made the biggest change to the sound of the system.  Mostly for the better.  

I think I'll get the 52 and Supercap serviced first, see what that does.

I have S600's too. I found that the BMR's are very revealing, therefore I'm surprised that especially breaking glass is less audible.

Which CD is the breaking glass of Private Investigations on? I didn’t hear it on the Alchemy Live  CD, but maybe that’s the point or not! 

Phil

It's track 2 on Love Over Gold.  It's just after the (I guess guitar) sound like a cat - a descending note.  A little after the footsteps.

But which pressing? Or catalog number? 

As Phil said, there can be significant difference in the quality from pressing to pressing  (or perhaps rather issue to issue). 

Claus

Beachcomber posted:

Filipe posted:

Ardbeg10y posted:

Beachcomber posted:

I tried playing Private Investigation from the CD (through CDX/XPS) and have to say it sounded very similar.  So I don't think that it's the NDX.  That leaves the 52, the 500 or the S600s.  My suspicion is that it's the S600 - they made the biggest change to the sound of the system.  Mostly for the better.  

I think I'll get the 52 and Supercap serviced first, see what that does.

I have S600's too. I found that the BMR's are very revealing, therefore I'm surprised that especially breaking glass is less audible.

Which CD is the breaking glass of Private Investigations on? I didn’t hear it on the Alchemy Live  CD, but maybe that’s the point or not! 

Phil

It's track 2 on Love Over Gold.  It's just after the (I guess guitar) sound like a cat - a descending note.  A little after the footsteps.

Thanks to both of you. I did think it was Love Over Gold. It would make sense that it was not on a live concert recording, very good as it is. I expect to be able to hear it as the digital is really good with the addition of a Cisco 2960 8tc switch.

I have just received an NDX + XPSDR to compare with CDX2 + XPSDR and UnitiServe SSD into nNDAC + XPSDR via DC1. I may end up routing the NDX into the nDAC + XPSDR if I decide I want the other things NDX provides.

Addressing the OP’s question, it is well worth having a Power Supply on any source. Although I have yet to try the 555 DR PS I suspect it is much better than the XPSDR. Speakers are too subjective, but my Focal Sopra N2s have always kept track of any other changes I have mad3 so far.

Phil

Do you have your pre level with or below any of the big power supplies (I assume in a second stack on the right), particularly the 500ps? Move it higher if you can. (I'm extrapolating from a 552 so this may not work for a 52, it doesn't for a 282).

yeti42 posted:

Do you have your pre level with or below any of the big power supplies (I assume in a second stack on the right), particularly the 500ps? Move it higher if you can. (I'm extrapolating from a 552 so this may not work for a 52, it doesn't for a 282).

Quite agree that keeping power supplies well spaced from each other and preamp is transformative to SQ. And get the cable dressing right etc.

Phil

 

Now that is a very good point - is the mix/mastering the same? Are you using the same copy of the CD (or rip of the same copy) as that with the dominant breaking glass that you recall?

 

Definitely the same CD

yeti42 posted:

Do you have your pre level with or below any of the big power supplies (I assume in a second stack on the right), particularly the 500ps? Move it higher if you can. (I'm extrapolating from a 552 so this may not work for a 52, it doesn't for a 282).

Power amp is on its own, next stack to that the preamp is high up, below that is CDX, then a gap, then the power supply for the 500, then the next stack along is the NDX, a gap, then the Supercap and below that is the XPS.

I’ve just been listening to Private Investigations. I can hear the footsteps and the cat sound but no obvious breaking glass. It’s a very well recorded song, though the drum sound from the extreme right at one point is a bit odd. Good image height though. My hearing is pretty rubbish and not good at high frequencies so maybe it’s there and I’m missing it. 

Hmm - interesting.  Possibly my previous active SBL/135s emphasised it.  Or my memory is failing me, but while that may well be true to an extent, I distinctly remember that sound being very obvious, but now I have to listen fairly carefully for it.  Yet I can hear higher and lower frequencies perfectly well.  

Yes, it is well-recorded.