QNAP TS-420 Setup Query

Shropshire Hills posted:

Hello I would be grateful for a little help regarding my QNAP NAS drive. I bought the NAS in 2014 along with a Naim NDX from UHES who were very helpful but are no longer in business. The NAS was set up by the dealer with two 2.0 TB WD Red hard drives in RAID 1. At that time I had a Windows pc and used dBpoweramp to rip my CDs to the NAS and it was set up with TwonkyMedia server. I now wish to start again and re-rip in a lossless format to the NAS and I now have a Mac computer. I have downloaded the Apple OS version of dBpoweramp CD Ripper. Before starting I would welcome a little advice so I can optimise my ripping and storage.

1. My 2 hard drives are 3-4 years old so would it be safer to ditch them and buy a new set or can I expect them to last several more years? Would it also be better to buy one or 2 additional disks so as to upgrade to Raid 5,6 or 10. Perhaps I should even keep my 2 existing disks and then add 2 new ones with RAID 5 or 10? There is so much conflicting advice on line and a lot of it relates more to complex business systems than a small home media setup

2. The QNAP software includes various apps such as Media Station, Music Station, Photo Station and TwonkyMedia. Should I keep these apps or is it better to remove them and just make my own folders for Music, Video, Photos etc?

3. Which is the best UPnP server for use with the iMac - AssetMinim seems to have a lot of supporters

3.Are there any recommended settings for dBpoweramp? it seems to rip to FLAC but not WAV - I believe I can convert "on the fly" but I am not sure how

I don't understand why people use RAID, as opposed to backing up to a separate device in a different location. I find backing up from one NAS to another the best option, but a cheaper alternative is just to use a USB drive for backup. For that reason, I use two single disc NAS drives.

Twonky isn't very popular, never tried it myself - Minim seems to work well, but on a QNAP I would look at Asset.

Creating a music folder that a Naim server can see should be done in a specific way. I strongly recommend that you contact Naim support for instructions and help - Phil Harris is a master of this stuff, and will be able to sort you out.

I find it hard to imagine that dBpa can't rip to WAV, but my preference is to store FLAC and convert to WAV on the fly, which you can do with Minim and Asset.

RAID 1 provides two identical copies of the data. If a block fails irretrievably then the block is relocated elsewhere using the good copy from the other disk. I also assume the management software is regularly checking that the two disks contain indentical data (integrity scanning).

So the benefit of RAID is that when things go wrong you don’t have to fiddle to put things right, and you should get a notification of the corrective action. Whilst backup is desirable, it is less necessary with RAID, and it could be argued that offsite is the most secure. 

I’ve never had a problem. Has anyone seen RAID working and felt happy that it dealt with it properly?

Phil

Before you re-rip the CDs, see if they are already in flac or WAV. If they are, it is pointless doing them again. Rip to flac using the standard level 5 compression. Set Asset to transcode to WAV. Load Asset on the Qnap and point it to the folder where your music lives and the NDX will find it. It’s not like a Naim server and it’s easy to do yourself. I think you have my email - send a message and I can send you Asset screen shots. 

Filipe posted:

RAID 1 provides two identical copies of the data. If a block fails irretrievably then the block is relocated elsewhere using the good copy from the other disk.

That is more or less what I hope to achieve by running two separate single drive NAS. If the main drive fails, I point the Naim app at the server on the other one, and normal service resumes. In addition to what RAID, or any other configuration of a multi-drive NAS, can provide, I also get proper backup in the event of fire, flood, theft, accidental damage, and importantly, any hardware or software failure on the primary NAS, not just the hard drive. 

Many thanks Chris, Phil and Nigel. Looks like RAID 1 should be ok for my needs and I assume the existing 3-4 year old 2 TB hard drives should be fine. Hopefully they won’t both fail st the same time so I can replace one if it fails without losing my music. I will also make regular backups to a separate external drive and store offsite with my daughter

Asset seems to be the server to go with - do I just download it to my computer and then drag it across to the NAS? 

I have decided to re-rip the CDs as I don’t have a massive number and I would like to make sure I do it properly. An imminent  minor shoulder operation will confine me to barracks for a couple of weeks with time to spare

i have reset the NAS and reloaded the firmware so the next step is to create some folders and consider which apps to load on to it. Do I keep the QNAP Music, Video and Photo Stations or just make new folders

Nigel thanks also for offering help setting up Asset. Of course I have your email address and would mention that the Nap 250DR is still complimenting my Nova and runs so quietly - no hum or thumps unlike some previous Naim power supplies I have owned

Cheers

 Bob

Just set up a new folder for your music. All I do, and many do the same, is have a sub folder for each artist, and then the albums under the artist. When you search via the metadata it doesn’t matter that the actual file structure is really simple. 

The Asset website tells you what to do. You download a file to the computer and then go into the Qnap and follow the manual install process. It’s really easy. You can customise the Asset browse tree to meet your requirements. It can be a bit fiddly but you can’t break anything. 

The Illustrate website (from where you download Asset UPnP) will have versions for different operating systems. Choose R6 for QNAP which downloads to the download folder on your computer as a qpkg file. You can then do a manual install to your QNAP NAS via the App Centre as indicated by HH.

You can download a free trial version if you want to try it out before you buy.

Many thanks Nigel and SJBABBEY for your helpful advice. I am out this evening but have time tomorrow evening to sort this and setup a music folder and install Asset

Bob

Hungryhalibut posted:

Just set up a new folder for your music. All I do, and many do the same, is have a sub folder for each artist, and then the albums under the artist. When you search via the metadata it doesn’t matter that the actual file structure is really simple. 

The Asset website tells you what to do. You download a file to the computer and then go into the Qnap and follow the manual install process. It’s really easy. You can customise the Asset browse tree to meet your requirements. It can be a bit fiddly but you can’t break anything. 

Hi Nigel

You have a 272 which you control with the NAIM App. Presumably the 272 can be setup to stream from the QNAP network share(s). I have the impression the 272 will then build a database from its various metadata source. Or does the Asset uPnP Server hide the file structure on the NAS from the 272, presenting a music oriented server interface to the 272 client?

Phil

Naim streamers are merely renderers, they do what they are told and cannot be setup to access network shares. They do not store a database.

The role of the UPNP server is to serve the music to the streamer, controlled by a control point, i.e. the Naim application. 

Prorpietory systems like Sonos can access the network share directly but this is not how UPNP works.

trickydickie posted:

Naim streamers are merely renderers, they do what they are told and cannot be setup to access network shares. They do not store a database.

The role of the UPNP server is to serve the music to the streamer, controlled by a control point, i.e. the Naim application. 

Prorpietory systems like Sonos can access the network share directly but this is not how UPNP works.

Thanks for your reply which confirms the some things. 

I have the impression that both are possible as my IX2 NAS has twonky media server which I have never used for metadata editing.

I am only familiar with rippers like the Core, UnitiServe and HDX which discover the media enabled folders using the general uPnP functionality (see Wikipedia for an overview of uPNP). If you edit metadata with Core or UnitiServe they tend to rename folders, and in more complex cases such as changing the artist they move the album to the changed artist folder which contains the artist’s albums.

From what Nigel says Asset doesn’t do this but presents a music oriented interface without moving the albums around. Asset I guess hides the file structure and merges all the albums into a unified structure no matter where they are stored accessed through a richer selection of  search criteria than the NAIM rippers

The weakness of the ripper is that it does not allow you to alter the storage structure behind its back because it has it own database. You have to rebuild it if you tinker!

I’m trying to decide between streaming from a Core or UnitiServe via the digital interface into nDAC and an NDX either via its anolgue or digital interface. If I have both boxes the problem goes away as I guess the rippers will provide a similar server oriented interface to Asset but not as good. Hence Nigel and other recommend QNAP or Synology NASs running Asset or Minim.

I’m just trying to understand the options, and wasn’t very familiar with Asset. I’d be pleased to have clarification.

Phil

Hi Bob

Re the choice of Asset vs Minimserver, very roughly (and being prepared to be shot down) I would say that Asset is a bit easier to get started with whereas Minim can be initially daunting but ultimately more flexible.  If you have a lot of classical music, I would suggest it is worthwhile persevering with Minim; otherwise you're probably better off going for Asset, especially with HH's help.

Incidentally, both upnp servers, but especially Minim, make heavy use of file tags.  (I never use the folder structure with Minim.)  Everybody has a slightly different way of tagging, so if you really are starting again, it might be worth ripping and tagging a small but varied selection of your music and playing with it for a few weeks.  Then, if you decide to modify your tagging scheme as many do, you don't have to re-tag the entirety of a large collection.

Finally, if your NAS is only used to store your music you can ignore Media Station, Music Station etc., though File Station is one possible way of getting music onto the NAS.

Roger

Phil,

Except for determining which directories to monitor for music and playlist files, Asset is agnostic as far as how you organise your subfolders and files. Instead it relies solely on the metadata tags in conjunction with the “Browse Tree” to determine how the different views appear in the app.

This can cause issues. For example, you may have the same album in  several different formats and might need to add a qualifier at the end of the album title e.g. CD, HR or DSD so that all the multiple tracks don’t appear under a single album. I personally use a “format” tag to distinguish such cases.

sjbabbey posted:

Phil,

Except for determining which directories to monitor for music and playlist files, Asset is agnostic as far as how you organise your subfolders and files. Instead it relies solely on the metadata tags in conjunction with the “Browse Tree” to determine how the different views appear in the app.

This can cause issues. For example, you may have the same album in  several different formats and might need to add a qualifier at the end of the album title e.g. CD, HR or DSD so that all the multiple tracks don’t appear under a single album. I personally use a “format” tag to distinguish such cases.

 

Hi

Thank you for your reply. 

I think what I was trying to say before is whether the 272 or NDX for that matter can operate both as renderers to which music is pushed and players which retrieve (pull) music from elsewhere. I guess 272 and NDX can do both.

As you say the renderer must allow you to select using the tags that matter to you choosing between say CD, HD, or DSD. 

Phil

Slightly off topic but HH said when he rips using db power amp for Mac he uses flac and compression level five. Wouldn't it be better for SQ to use lossless level 0 or the lossless uncompressed options if you have the space on the nas?

Hi Roger

Thanks for your info - as I’m mainly blues, jazz and rock I think I’ll kick off with Asset. It also seems that I may be able to just use one music folder with o need for sub-folders for each artist as Asset seems to rely on the metadata tags.

JSAUDIO - I did think I should use Flavia uncompressed as I have plenty of spare storage capacity 

Bob

I strongly suggest that you have a folder for each artist beneath the main music folder. Otherwise you won’t be able to find things easily if you want to edit metadata. 

I read somewhere that flac works best compressed. Maybe that’s wrong but with over 3,000 albums that’s what I’m stuck with. The transcoding unpacks the flac and converts it to WAV before sending it to the streamer anyway. 

Shropshire Hills posted:

It also seems that I may be able to just use one music folder with o need for sub-folders for each artist as Asset seems to rely on the metadata tags.

 

Most servers give you the option to display either tag view or folder view, and the Naim app will allow you to switch between them at will. Minim does it, and I assume Asset does too. I would say that tag view is the best way to browse your music library in the app, although you can use whichever you prefer. You will still want to maintain some sort of file structure though, as you will use folder view when managing your library on a computer. I keep it simple, and just have a music folder, with a sub-folder for each artist, and a sub-folder within the artist for each album. I don't have a large classical collection, and I treat composers as artists. 

Nigel & Chris

Thanks for the clarification on folder structure and I now see the reason for artist and album sub-folders. Nigel I think UHES originally set my dBpoweramp to rip at compression level 5 rather than uncompressed

jsaudio posted:

Slightly off topic but HH said when he rips using db power amp for Mac he uses flac and compression level five. Wouldn't it be better for SQ to use lossless level 0 or the lossless uncompressed options if you have the space on the nas?

I store FLACs at maximum compression. The hard work of processing them is done by the server, well away from the streamer where maybe the workload might generate electrical noise. (The server then transcodes to WAV on the fly before sending the stream to the streamer.) There is no loss of data - compression just stores the bits in a smaller file, but the streamer still gets all of them.

Filipe posted:

sjbabbey posted:

Phil,

Except for determining which directories to monitor for music and playlist files, Asset is agnostic as far as how you organise your subfolders and files. Instead it relies solely on the metadata tags in conjunction with the “Browse Tree” to determine how the different views appear in the app.

This can cause issues. For example, you may have the same album in  several different formats and might need to add a qualifier at the end of the album title e.g. CD, HR or DSD so that all the multiple tracks don’t appear under a single album. I personally use a “format” tag to distinguish such cases.

 

Hi

Thank you for your reply. 

I think what I was trying to say before is whether the 272 or NDX for that matter can operate both as renderers to which music is pushed and players which retrieve (pull) music from elsewhere. I guess 272 and NDX can do both.

As you say the renderer must allow you to select using the tags that matter to you choosing between say CD, HD, or DSD. 

Phil

Well it appears that the NDX only plays uPnP. Not directly related, but the Core can not as yet function as a renderer playing its music on the NDX. So Asset and Minim are the only servers able to do this. Twonky on my Lenovo IX2 is available but it doesn’t use cover art. Twonky supports a By Folders option which would allow folders for HiRes etc to be viewed taking the guess work out of finding HiRes.

Phil

Bob - also think how you want albums to be sorted, and similarly how you'd like to see Various Artist albums presented.

Personally I like to see David Bowie albums presented under 'B' rather than 'D' and to have the artist name displayed as 'David Bowie' not 'Bowie, David'. I therefore make use of the artist sort fields (both artist and album artist). I also like my compilations as whole albums under 'V' for Various Artists (or at least a single artist) - so, again, make use of the Album Artist and Artist tags. I added to the standard Asset browse tree with Album Artist / Album (which I prefer to Artist / Album) and moved that option to the top of the list!

Filipe posted:

Filipe posted:

Twonky on my Lenovo IX2 is available but it doesn’t use cover art. Twonky supports a By Folders option which would allow folders for HiRes etc to be viewed taking the guess work out of finding HiRes

 

That's odd. I'm running Twonky on my QNAP and it supports cover art.  I just leave the relevant folder.jpg file in the directory and it picks it up. 

Must be specific to your IX2 implementation ??

Gavin B posted:

Bob - also think how you want albums to be sorted, and similarly how you'd like to see Various Artist albums presented.

Personally I like to see David Bowie albums presented under 'B' rather than 'D' and to have the artist name displayed as 'David Bowie' not 'Bowie, David'. I therefore make use of the artist sort fields (both artist and album artist). I also like my compilations as whole albums under 'V' for Various Artists (or at least a single artist) - so, again, make use of the Album Artist and Artist tags. I added to the standard Asset browse tree with Album Artist / Album (which I prefer to Artist / Album) and moved that option to the top of the list!

Gavin

Many thanks for your helpful suggestions - I will try and spend some time on this on Sunday. I assume these sort fields concern the ripping software - dBpoweramp in my case - rather than the UPNP  server or have I missed something (I’ve not downloaded Asset yet)

Bob

I’m pretty certain Asset uses them. I don’t know whether dbpoweramp completes them by default but I’d check and complete them manually if necessary