282 > 252> 552

However I'm not owning any of the aforementioned preamps, 

282/HC = musical, dynamic, vibrant. 

Is how I would describe my SuperNait 1.

Is my understanding / observation correct?

I'm sure the SN1 is less refined / lacking detail compared to the pre/power setups though.

sjbabbey posted:

Allante,

Which/Witch Hat who make an XLR cable some forum members believe improves upon naim’s stock XLR.

 

 

They now do something rather super as well which is what I was alluding to.

Begs the question.   The SC would go on my 282 so all 3 sources benefit.   But then would my vinyl sound best with its own HC on the Superline or being fed by the 282//SC?

And no 2 SCS are not an option!!

It is interesting to read all those opinions and tastes about Naim’s preamps and their respective position in the hierarchy.

I nonetheless wonder if it makes sense to compare these preamps outside of their natural environment?

Does it make sense to compare 282/SCDR/250DR and 252/SCDR/250DR? None of these preamps are in their optimal system combination.

The 252 was designed to optimally function with NAP300DR and SuperCapDR as the 282 makes a well-balanced system with the HiCapDR.

Wouldn’t it make more sense to compare 252/SCDR/300DR and 282/HCDR/NAP250DR, even if the price range is different?

With the supercap feeding the superline via a Burndy and not a Snaic (I tried this as a stand in but don’t bother) and the hicap on the 282. I never liked the hicap on the superline compared to AUX2, even of a 282. Second best is supercap feeding 282 and AUX2 the superline. Some people might prefer the hicap on the superline as it’s more detailed but it loses too much boogie for that detail.

Tomser, not sure I buy into the natural partner thing even though I am a 252/300 owner. Yes, it does make a nicely balanced system but I would be happy partnering the pre with a 250 if I had to. Better pre first is the real rule of thumb.

Love your avatar picture by the way. Looks like Mont Blanc from the colour of the rock. Love the Alps and used to do a bit there myself.

Stu.

stuart.ashen posted:

Tomser, not sure I buy into the natural partner thing even though I am a 252/300 owner. Yes, it does make a nicely balanced system but I would be happy partnering the pre with a 250 if I had to. Better pre first is the real rule of thumb.

Love your avatar picture by the way. Looks like Mont Blanc from the colour of the rock. Love the Alps and used to do a bit there myself.

Stu.

Stuart, you're obviously right regarding prioritizing the preamp. The 252/250 is indeed a nice combo. What I was implying is that the 252 shows its best coupled with the 300. Before ordering my 252/SCDR/300DR is spent some time wondering if the 250DR wouldn't fit my likes. I ended choosing the 300DR. Should receive the combo in February .

Yes, it is the Mont Blanc massif. That day (on the picture) I guided my wife and a friend through a nice climb on the south face of the Aiguille du Midi. 

TOMSER,  A couple of years ago I did a side by side demo of  the 282/SCDR/250DR and 252/SCDR/250DR both are extremely competent and enjoyable combinations I did prefer and end up with the 252 based system as a personal choice but I could have lived with both.

TomSer posted:

stuart.ashen posted:

Tomser, not sure I buy into the natural partner thing even though I am a 252/300 owner. Yes, it does make a nicely balanced system but I would be happy partnering the pre with a 250 if I had to. Better pre first is the real rule of thumb.

Love your avatar picture by the way. Looks like Mont Blanc from the colour of the rock. Love the Alps and used to do a bit there myself.

Stu.

Stuart, you're obviously right regarding prioritizing the preamp. The 252/250 is indeed a nice combo. What I was implying is that the 252 shows its best coupled with the 300. Before ordering my 252/SCDR/300DR is spent some time wondering if the 250DR wouldn't fit my likes. I ended choosing the 300DR. Should receive the combo in February .

Yes, it is the Mont Blanc massif. That day (on the picture) I guided my wife and a friend through a nice climb on the south face of the Aiguille du Midi. 

I thought that looked a bit familiar - my first trip to Chamomix was to the Frendo spur. A far cry from black boxes!

I guess pre amp first is optimal but going from 282/250-2 non DR to 282/300 non DR was a bigger leap than Nac 202 to 282.

Tomser,

perhaps we should start a ‘Favourite Climbs’ thread in the Padded Cell and include a few pictures. I am sure that quite a few members will be climbers or hill walkers. I might pop across there now.

Of course, I agree that 252/300 is rather good 

Stu

stuart.ashen posted:

Tomser, not sure I buy into the natural partner thing even though I am a 252/300 owner. Yes, it does make a nicely balanced system but I would be happy partnering the pre with a 250 if I had to. Better pre first is the real rule of thumb.......

No experience, but I tend to agree!

Naim Audio Control. (NAC)

What if:

Perfectly acoustical 10 x 10 room (small)!

552/250 vs 552/500

Do you think there will be a noticable difference?

My 282 is cranking pretty good with 250.2 @ 9:00 o'clock.

13 x 18 Room plus!

Just my two cents!

Allante93!

PS. 80 watts per channel@ 8 ohm

                            Vs

      140 watts per channel@ 8 ohm

Not to mention 90 watts! The 300!

I'm not sure you'd choose a 552/500 vs 552/250 for its room filling abilities. For me it's about all the other aspects like, speed, timbre, depth, realism, musicality, naturalness, imaging and a large dose of that famous Naim PRAT. All of which are present and noticeable at quite low volume levels. Of course, if you have a large room and the right speakers, the 500 will take you to the concert and blonk you in the first or second row. I've not heard another amp that can get you anywhere near that close.

I am told by a 282 owner who appears (to me at least) to have excellent hearing and taste, that a SuoerCap is the only means of hearing what a 282 is really capable of. I've heard it and it sounds good. It sounds like a very good 282. It doesn't sound like a 252 because it can't. Nor can it sound like a 552. They are all completely different. They have no "Naim sound" in common and do no subscribe to a model of "the same but more". 

That's according to my ears. Can you audition them back to back? That will tell you. Nobody else can.

blah - it's all about source first to my ears.

Not at all excited about differences in preamps  after  282 level or power amps after 250 DR level.

The kind of money it takes to upgrade from 282/HCDR/250DR  to 252 or 552 is better spent on Source upgrades like NDS/55DR , Superlumina, Fraim and speakers.

My opinion.

And my opinion is that the pre amp is the heart and soul of any system. Yes, I admit to being a source first bloke, but I have always used the 'best' Naim pre I could afford. Some of the most profound SQ uplifts I have heard at home have come from upgrading my pre.

I don't really understand how pre amps (essentially posh attenuators) can have such an effect, but they do.....well they do in my system, in my home, using my ears.

analogmusic posted:

blah - it's all about source first to my ears.

Not at all excited about differences in preamps  after  282 level or power amps after 250 DR level.

The kind of money it takes to upgrade from 282/HCDR/250DR  to 252 or 552 is better spent on Source upgrades like NDS/55DR , Superlumina, Fraim and speakers.

My opinion.

 

 

I’d that Nds/555dr going to give it’s best without a 552? 

I’m quite happy with mine feeding a 252 thanks! I’m still very much of the source first persuasion I’m afraid which is why I run a Linn LP12 Klimax too.  

Tried mine with a 252. Hated it. Found it only worthwhile with the 552. 

Tried mine with a 252, loved it but know it would be wonderful with a 552. I daren't do a home demo because I am pretty sure I will want it but might not be able to afford it.

Drewy posted:

Tried mine with a 252. Hated it. Found it only worthwhile with the 552. 

Well I’m glad you’re happy. All this hated, blown out of the water nonsense leaves me cold I’m afraid. I just know that I have better things to spend 20K on.

nigelb posted:

I don't really understand how pre amps (essentially posh attenuators) can have such an effect, but they do.....well they do in my system, in my home, using my ears.

well attenuator/amp plus buffer.. that works at constant frequency response and impedance irrespective of gain... easier said than done to do extremely well, easy to do at a mediocre level......hence why the NAC is one of the if not most SQ sensitive components in a system.

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

nigelb posted:

I don't really understand how pre amps (essentially posh attenuators) can have such an effect, but they do.....well they do in my system, in my home, using my ears.

well attenuator/amp plus buffer.. that works at constant frequency response and impedance irrespective of gain... easier said than done to do extremely well, easy to do at a mediocre level......hence why the NAC is one of the if not most SQ sensitive components in a system.

Simon, I knew there would a technical explanation for the significant impact a pre has on SQ. Like you I am thinking of taking the unusual step of trying a 552DR with a 250DR but fronted by a NDS. From your experience it seems the 250DR is well up to the task of handling the extra resolution the 552DR feeds it.

How is your 552DR bedding in?

Well thanks... 

I have found a 552dr and NDS with a 555 sheer perfection and well worth saving up for!