SuperLumina VS Hi-Line VS Chord Music - Interconnects

That scoring system sounds very much like Top Trumps! It reminds me of playing with the kids.

analog music will appreciate.....

Do you still prefer the cds2/555dr vs nds?

French Rooster posted:

analog music will appreciate.....

Do you still prefer the cds2/555dr vs nds?

Yes.

BP. 

Hungryhalibut posted:

That scoring system sounds very much like Top Trumps! It reminds me of playing with the kids.

Don’t stone me!

BP. 

What is the “Naim sound”?

Ooops sorry - I’ll regret asking that. 

It’s the equivalent of Beano Star Rating. 

The Strat (Fender) posted:

What is the “Naim sound”?

Ooops sorry - I’ll regret asking that. 

That magical thing that we can recognize a naim system in 5 seconds.

BP. 

Hungryhalibut posted:

It’s the equivalent of Beano Star Rating. 

Or The Penguin Guide to Recorded Classical Music. 

BP. 

The Strat (Fender) posted:

What is the “Naim sound”?

Ooops sorry - I’ll regret asking that. 

Naim sounds the same as name to me.

BPhotographer posted:

I rarely listen to other (non-naim) interconnects in my system; I find that other cables are anemic and create severe balance problems in an all-naim system context, but Chord cables are known for their synergy with naim.

I got the Chord Music din-din interconnect for a home demo and compared it to my SuperLumina and Hi-Line cables.

To make a long story short, I prefer the naim interconnects. 
The Chord is a very capable cable, but it's not the sound for me. Willful and too many 'ideas'.
Naim's sound is almost gone and I lose connection with the music sometimes.

I ranked all cables (including naim Lavender IC), in a score from 1 to 10.

Naturalness
SuperLumina - 9
Hi-Line            - 9
Music              - 6
Lavender        - 7

Details
SuperLumina - 8
Hi-Line            - 7
Music              - 10
Lavender        - 3

Transperancy
SuperLumina - 8
Hi-Line           - 7
Music             - 10
Lavender      - 5

Prestige Sounding
SuperLumina - 10
Hi-Line            - 4
Music              - 9
Lavender        - 1

Involving with the music
SuperLumina - 10 (with NDS)
Hi-Line             - 10 (with CDS2)
Music               - 7
Lavender         - 7

Soundstage and 3D
SuperLumina - 8
Hi-Line             - 7
Music               - 9
Lavender         - 6

Focus
SuperLumina - 8
Hi-Line            - 10
Music              - 9
Lavender        - 6

Dynamics
SuperLumina - 10
Hi-Line             - 6
Music               - 10
Lavender         - 4

Black background
SuperLumina - 9
Hi-Line            - 7
Music              - 3
Lavender        - 5

Size of instruments in the presentation (higher score doesn't necessarily mean better)
SuperLumina - 9
Hi-Line            - 5
Music              - 10
Lavender        - 6

"naim sound"
SuperLumina - 10
Hi-Line            - 10
Music              - 3
Lavender        - 10

The System:
NAP 500 non-DR
NAC 552 DR
NDS + 555PS DR
NDS + 2x555PS DR
UnitiCore (Chord Sarum & Chord Signature ethernet cables & Netgear GS105 switch)
CDS-2 + 555PS DR
Kudos 707
Full Loom (speaker cables, DIN-XLR), Powerlines
Fraim

BP.

you give 9 for hiline and 6 for music about naturalness. I am surprised, i find my chord signature tuned array more natural sounding than hiline ( a bit hard and edgy vs the chord).

For me naim sound characteristics are:  involvement, prat , urgency, body : pros

                       coins:  average soundstage, hardness and edgyness sometimes.   The chord cables give the balance: a little less focus but better soundstage, more naturalness and true tones colors, better definition of instruments, more fluidity.

Comparison on hiline vs chord signature tuned array.  I guess the same characteristics must be find on superlumina vs music, but have not heard them.

Look, when someone attempts some scientific assessment of kit rather than the usual fluffy often meaningless or spurious descriptions, let's applaud rather than attack. The problem, as always, is that we are trying to describe an elusive and subjective experience. Maybe a combination of quantitative and qualitative assessments is the answer.

(I used to be in Market Research which relies on both qual. and quant. approaches).

Very interesting read, but not very meaningful, as it's only one opinion, yours, that rates the cables. What about the hundreds, possibly thousands, of other available cables? How would they sound compared to these cables? Your system, your opinion, and I get that, and as long as you're convinced of the outcome, great!

Nice idea, but meaningless in the real world.

BPhotographer posted:

I rarely listen to other (non-naim) interconnects in my system; I find that other cables are anemic and create severe balance problems in an all-naim system context, but Chord cables are known for their synergy with naim.
<snip>

BP.

Sorry, I wholeheartedly disagree with your initial premise; this isn't my experience of "other cables" as an entire group (even though it is my experience of some cables).

To justify this claim you'd need to have tried all the other cables available (or that can be made):  Even if just one of them isn't anaemic or doesn't cause balance problems, then your basic premise of automatically discounting all others falls.

On the other hand I don't have a problem with your scoring system for estimation (provided it isn't, in error, taken as a measurement).

(BTW, you don't have an 'all Naim system' you have Kudos speakers and an LP12, neither of these are Naim products, although the LP12 could be excused if you have a Naim Aro arm!).

badlands posted:

Very interesting read, but not very meaningful, as it's only one opinion, yours, that rates the cables. What about the hundreds, possibly thousands, of other available cables? How would they sound compared to these cables? Your system, your opinion, and I get that, and as long as you're convinced of the outcome, great!

Nice idea, but meaningless in the real world.

As the saying goes, that is stating the bleedin' obvious. What should we do then, give up on offering our opinions of kit? Or is it the points scoring you are objecting to?

The problem is that there is no commonly understood vocabulary to describe what we hear from hifi kit. Dynamiics, soundstage, musicality, blackness, resolution, detail, timbre, tone...and so on, all have dictionary definitions but all mean subtly different things to each of us when used to describe music emanating from a hifi system. So what are we to do?

While I prefered Chord Music to Super Lumina (by a wide margin) I totally respect BP's opinion.  He took the time, did the listening and made his judgements.  Folks tend to make so many generalizations and assumptions about cables without actually doing the work.  Glad you are enjoying your system and those new Titan 707's.  

CB

Chris Bell posted:

While I prefered Chord Music to Super Lumina (by a wide margin) I totally respect BP's opinion.  He took the time, did the listening and made his judgements.  Folks tend to make so many generalizations and assumptions about cables without actually doing the work.  Glad you are enjoying your system and those new Titan 707's.  

CB

Here we go again .

More seriously, I agree wholeheartedly, with the caveat of the opening sentence perhaps suggesting a degree of fait accompli.  As a Chord Music interconnect owner (RCA rather than DIN admittedly) 3 for Black background compared to 5 for Lavender is also almost impossible to accept.  And while several of the categories inevitably overlap "naim sound" is surely just a rehash of the previous high scoring Naim cable attributes.

I’m intrigued as to what ‘presige sounding’ might be. Actually I think it’s really good that people go to the effort of comparing cables in this way. My comparison to Top Trumps is in no way critical, it’s simply what sprung to mind last night when I read the post. I’m hopeless at describing these sorts of effects, so good on BP for having a go. The inky blackness mark that Bryce picks up on is interesting - it’s only something I have come to really understand since having DR equipment and SL cables. The way the music can come from a silent background is quite beguiling. I’ve no doubt the Music cables can do it as well - it would be weird if they couldn’t. 

Personally I find the "inky blackness" thing is entirely related to imaging.

With some cables & components (group 'A') the distribution of the sound of a single performer or instrument appears to be spread out spatially, with others (group 'B') distribution of the sound is precisely located, with another group (group 'C') there appears to be slightly fuzzy shoulders of sound surrounding the main part of the sound despite that central part still being the precisely located.

Despite groups 'B' and 'C' both giving precise location of the stereo image, only group 'B' gives the sense of "inky blackness".

well I do appreciate this thread, very nice thank you BP Photographer

Chris Bell posted:

While I prefered Chord Music to Super Lumina (by a wide margin) I totally respect BP's opinion.  He took the time, did the listening and made his judgements.  Folks tend to make so many generalizations and assumptions about cables without actually doing the work.  Glad you are enjoying your system and those new Titan 707's.  

CB

I do respect your opinion and findings, and thought about it a long while since your post, the wildcard  here is that you were using a Sarum DIN/XLR during your audition whereas BP photographer is using all Superlumina DIN/XLR and Speaker cables?

Not sure if Chord DIN/DIN Cables sound better with their own DIN/XLR...

Anyway - I find the old DIN/XLR and NACA5 surprisingly capable and is the Naim sound - Naim intended performance or designed in Salisbury original sound.

No doubt Dave J and Nick Lees will be here to contradict me, but a variety of opinions is what makes the forum interesting.

Bryce Curdy posted:

Chris Bell posted:

While I prefered Chord Music to Super Lumina (by a wide margin) I totally respect BP's opinion.  He took the time, did the listening and made his judgements.  Folks tend to make so many generalizations and assumptions about cables without actually doing the work.  Glad you are enjoying your system and those new Titan 707's.  

CB

Here we go again .

More seriously, I agree wholeheartedly, with the caveat of the opening sentence perhaps suggesting a degree of fait accompli.  As a Chord Music interconnect owner (RCA rather than DIN admittedly) 3 for Black background compared to 5 for Lavender is also almost impossible to accept.  And while several of the categories inevitably overlap "naim sound" is surely just a rehash of the previous high scoring Naim cable attributes.

Unable to edit, but my opening sentence caveat referred to to Bphotographer (the OP) and not Chris whose opening sentence i totally agree with!  Apologies for confusion.

it is a very structured way to have an opinion, thank you for spending the time....

analogmusic posted:

Chris Bell posted:

While I prefered Chord Music to Super Lumina (by a wide margin) I totally respect BP's opinion.  He took the time, did the listening and made his judgements.  Folks tend to make so many generalizations and assumptions about cables without actually doing the work.  Glad you are enjoying your system and those new Titan 707's.  

CB

I do respect your opinion and findings, and thought about it a long while since your post, the wildcard  here is that you were using a Sarum DIN/XLR during your audition whereas BP photographer is using all Superlumina DIN/XLR and Speaker cables?

Not sure if Chord DIN/DIN Cables sound better with their own DIN/XLR...

Anyway - I find the old DIN/XLR and NACA5 surprisingly capable and is the Naim sound - Naim intended performance or designed in Salisbury original sound.

No doubt Dave J and Nick Lees will be here to contradict me, but a variety of opinions is what makes the forum interesting.

 

Why would I want to single you out for contradiction Ali? The OP has his ears, his opinions as you are to yours. There is no right way to hear.

In fact it's quite bizarre that you make a stand for opinions when you are all over any cable thread telling all and sundry that only Naim cables are right for Naim systems.

I think it is a great effort sharing the conclusions.

Like Hungryhalibut i don't understand de Prestige category. Is it refinement?

Does the Superlumina control the bass better than Hiline?

Nick Lees posted:

analogmusic posted:

Chris Bell posted:

While I prefered Chord Music to Super Lumina (by a wide margin) I totally respect BP's opinion.  He took the time, did the listening and made his judgements.  Folks tend to make so many generalizations and assumptions about cables without actually doing the work.  Glad you are enjoying your system and those new Titan 707's.  

CB

I do respect your opinion and findings, and thought about it a long while since your post, the wildcard  here is that you were using a Sarum DIN/XLR during your audition whereas BP photographer is using all Superlumina DIN/XLR and Speaker cables?

Not sure if Chord DIN/DIN Cables sound better with their own DIN/XLR...

Anyway - I find the old DIN/XLR and NACA5 surprisingly capable and is the Naim sound - Naim intended performance or designed in Salisbury original sound.

No doubt Dave J and Nick Lees will be here to contradict me, but a variety of opinions is what makes the forum interesting.

 

Why would I want to single you out for contradiction Ali? The OP has his ears, his opinions as you are to yours. There is no right way to hear.

In fact it's quite bizarre that you make a stand for opinions when you are all over any cable thread telling all and sundry that only Naim cables are right for Naim systems.

It's not really what I mean - I mean if anyone wants to preserve the Naim intended performance.

If a change from that is desirable, well it's down to taste and preference and ears and interpretation.

But to my ears what I don't hear is that Chord Cables do Naim better than Naim.

However I do hear that Chord Digital cables like Indigo walks all over the DC1 

Anyway it doesn't really matter, it's down to personal preferences.