ND555

audio1946 posted:

 the differences will be v small.  if we apply a little logic .  every  upgrade may be different but is it better .   the top unit should be in a new modern design    the  old classic is not it.   

What matters to me is not whether the ND555 uses the latest DAC chipsets etc etc. The thing that matters most is what it sounds like.  I'm much less interested at marvelling at it's internals and much more interested in listening to it. 

MDS posted:

Alba1320 posted:

While it's the musical performance that matters, I'm pleased that Naim has done as promised, and retained the current separates' look; infinitely preferable to the 'fugly chic' of Uniti, IMO.

Personally, as someone with no interest in computer audio (CA), I was hoping, though not realistically expecting, a DAC555; Not only would that mean that I, and those of similar persuasion, wouldn't have to pay for unnecessary 'gubbins', but those who are interested in CA, could choose the particular box that did what they wanted, and leave Naim to concentrate on the important bit i.e. changing digits into music. Perhaps because I have no interest in such things, and consequently pay little attention to it,  I may have an unfair impression, but It seems that there is little but moaning about glitches/reliability, missing functions/services etc., which, at best, suggests that CA is something of a moving target (and at worst, something that Naim isn't great at?), so why bother?

Still, I may give ND555 a try, to see if they have managed to provide a substantial musical improvement over their top CD players, and I suppose that it's not beyond the realms of possibility that they might 'spin off' a DAC555 from the development of ND555? (yeah, right!)

 

I'm like-minded. Having previously compared a NDS/555PSDR against my nDAC/555PSDR, firstly using the NDS as a DAC and then in full streaming mode, I still preferred my nDAC being fed from CDX2.2/XP5XS. While I remain open-minded and might consider switching to streaming if the performance was significantly better than my current set, I'll also be interested to see whether this ND555 can be used as just a DAC and, if so, how it compares to the nDAC/555PSDR.     

For the price difference, let alone greater development it has has, I would hope and expect the DAC in the ND555 to be streets ahead of the nDAC. (Otherwise Naim’s R&D people gave been wasting their time!) Of course that does not mean that any individual won’t prefer the older DAC, or prefer CD to streaming from locally stored files, just as some people have suggested some now ancient Philips DACs sound better than more modern offerings, by implication including all of Naim's and Chord’s DACs.

A thought (which is probably wrong)... but do we even know if this is a one box (plus PSU) streamer?  Could it be possible the box shown is purely a streamer which will have a bespoke link to a separate DAC box?  The DAC box could then have additional inputs.

As I recall this is an idea Naim played around with before: back in the days when the HDX was launched there was suggestion of a reference level version which separated the “computer” part from the audio electronics.

Must dig out my old Philips CD104 - still refuses to die even though it does pong of TCP - always has!

Alba1320 posted:

The announcement by TW describes it as a 'Network Player', which is how they describe the existing 'streamers'; whether that necessarily answers your question is, I suppose, still open to question.

Like I say my thought was likely completely wrong... still lots to wait and see about (perhaps that’s why TW didn’t show the back)!

Eloise posted:

Alba1320 posted:

The announcement by TW describes it as a 'Network Player', which is how they describe the existing 'streamers'; whether that necessarily answers your question is, I suppose, still open to question.

Like I say my thought was likely completely wrong... still lots to wait and see about (perhaps that’s why TW didn’t show the back)!

But if it were just a streamer and required a separate DAC the best one Naim offer is it's nDAC, which would seem very odd i.e. offering a new reference streamer which required a (now rather old) classic series nDAC. 

It must be a one box streamer with separate one or two 555 PS's. Naim would not call it the ND 555 if it did not work with the 555 PS. It would be a 557 or something. I guess there could be a new upgraded 555 PS but seems unlikely. An entirely new PS would be statement level not 500. I could imagine a higher level streamer plus separate DAC each with their own power supply but that would be more expensive as well.

If it subjectively sounds better to a prospective purchaser than a current Klimax DS or a Chord with a Melco or whatever, then I think people will buy it and I might be near the front of the queue. The bells and whistles won't really matter in the end if it sounds better than the competition or a CD 555.  The basic streaming capabilities will be as in the Uniti's and the money here must be going on making it sound better so no internal PS.

What would be nice is if it works better with two 555 PS's, they could sell pairs of 555 PS's to power it without the the redundant parts of each if that would be economic and save money.  They could call the matched pairs 13555 PS.

It would be very nice to see the back but you can't expect Trevor to post a picture of that as well or they will have nothing to present at Bristol. The sides top and bottom are not going to be very interesting and you won't be able to listen to it yet.

I have no idea why it needs an on/off button so perhaps that means I got it all wrong?

Ian

MDS posted:

Alba1320 posted:

While it's the musical performance that matters, I'm pleased that Naim has done as promised, and retained the current separates' look; infinitely preferable to the 'fugly chic' of Uniti, IMO.

Personally, as someone with no interest in computer audio (CA), I was hoping, though not realistically expecting, a DAC555; Not only would that mean that I, and those of similar persuasion, wouldn't have to pay for unnecessary 'gubbins', but those who are interested in CA, could choose the particular box that did what they wanted, and leave Naim to concentrate on the important bit i.e. changing digits into music. Perhaps because I have no interest in such things, and consequently pay little attention to it,  I may have an unfair impression, but It seems that there is little but moaning about glitches/reliability, missing functions/services etc., which, at best, suggests that CA is something of a moving target (and at worst, something that Naim isn't great at?), so why bother?

Still, I may give ND555 a try, to see if they have managed to provide a substantial musical improvement over their top CD players, and I suppose that it's not beyond the realms of possibility that they might 'spin off' a DAC555 from the development of ND555? (yeah, right!)

 

I'm like-minded. Having previously compared a NDS/555PSDR against my nDAC/555PSDR, firstly using the NDS as a DAC and then in full streaming mode, I still preferred my nDAC being fed from CDX2.2/XP5XS. While I remain open-minded and might consider switching to streaming if the performance was significantly better than my current set, I'll also be interested to see whether this ND555 can be used as just a DAC and, if so, how it compares to the nDAC/555PSDR.     

+1. I won’t compromise on SQ and NDS + 555 is already very expensive.

Quite feedup by the hassle of network tweaks and streamer software.

The later is the bigger bugbear quite literally. I sent my demo Core back. I will stick with CDX2 into nDAC, and NAS (running Twonky) into TV (Panasonic Vierra Media Player) via toslink into nDAC for streaming. The later is almost as good as the former now I have a Cisco 2960 8tc switch. All the noise if any is isolated from the nDAC by the toslink.

It seems a major flaw in Naim’s streamer architecture to allow network issues to impact on SQ as others have said. We have to accept the need to understand cable dressing issues because there is no alternative technology.

I was very disappointed in my late November factory tour by the demo of Statement and NDS. It came down to network issues and cable dressing. It is not just us that gets these thing wrong!

Mikes (@MDS), what kind of improvement can I expect when I try the 555DR PS on my nDAC in the next few day? Given the nDAC and NDS have the same DAC chips I would expect it to be as good as NDS. I’m also demoing a 552. Which will give the biggest improvement?

Phil

MDS posted:

But if it were just a streamer and required a separate DAC the best one Naim offer is it's nDAC, which would seem very odd i.e. offering a new reference streamer which required a (now rather old) classic series nDAC. 

I was meaning that it’s a new integrated streamer with DAC, just the DAC (which wouldn’t be anything to do with the existing nDAC or even available separately) could be in a separate box to the streamer.  The streamer having an integrated PSU and the DAC part utilising the 555PS.  The link between the two being something other than SPDIF or USB, etc.

The idea being to completely separate the “noisy” computer part from the audio parts.

Its unlikely, but that’s what I was meaning...

Phil - I came to the 555PSDR on the nDAC in a bit of a complicated way. I initially replaced an XP5XS on the nDAC with a non-DR 555PS, having tried an XPS2 and thought it didn't improve performance enough to justify it's price.  I started by trying the 555PSDR but felt it did too much in my then system, which had 282/SC/250.2 and went for the non-DR 555PS version.  Later when, I'd replaced the 300DR, gone for the full loom SL,  and had a 552DR on demo at home, the position reversed on the 555PS v 555PSDR, and the latter won out.

What you can expect is more of everything really: detail, dynamics, much bigger sound-stage but still with the nDAC's boogie (which I think is where it edges the NDS).

That said, if your source is up to it, the performance lift given by 552 will likely be greater.  It is immediately better from the off but will take several days to properly warm up after which it reveals even more. Don't be put off if very initial impressions are that the extra detail delivered by the 552 feels a bit 'cold' or sterile. That wears off as the 552 warms-up and settles down.  The extra detail then takes on a lovely liquid quality where the music just washes over you. You're in for an exciting time. Enjoy it and take your time. Oh, and report back of course. 

Mike 

Eloise posted:

MDS posted:

But if it were just a streamer and required a separate DAC the best one Naim offer is it's nDAC, which would seem very odd i.e. offering a new reference streamer which required a (now rather old) classic series nDAC. 

I was meaning that it’s a new integrated streamer with DAC, just the DAC (which wouldn’t be anything to do with the existing nDAC or even available separately) could be in a separate box to the streamer.  The streamer having an integrated PSU and the DAC part utilising the 555PS.  The link between the two being something other than SPDIF or USB, etc.

The idea being to completely separate the “noisy” computer part from the audio parts.

Its unlikely, but that’s what I was meaning...

Ah. I get it now, Eloise. 

M

I am wondering how it will compare with the original Hugo. 

Chag -

Great news I want one

Ravenswood10 posted:

Must dig out my old Philips CD104 - still refuses to die even though it does pong of TCP - always has!

Presumably mothballed because it doesn’t sound good! (I seem to recall that was one that had good reviews and I had listened to back in the mid 80s, when I was trying to like CD but couldn’t until Cambridge released the CD2.

Harry posted:

..... wonton wickedness ..

Excitedly waiting for the drop in price of used NDSs...

Ravenswood10 posted:

Must dig out my old Philips CD104 - still refuses to die even though it does pong of TCP - always has!

I don't think the smell was TCP.  More likely TCP/IP.

Noogle posted:

Excitedly waiting for the drop in price of used NDSs...

Won’t happen - broken gesr just doesn’t sell.

Innocent Bystander posted:

Noogle posted:

Excitedly waiting for the drop in price of used NDSs...

Won’t happen - broken gesr just doesn’t sell.

there will be more second hand nds when the nd555 will be on the market.  So perhaps a little drop in price.....

French Rooster posted:

Innocent Bystander posted:

Noogle posted:

Excitedly waiting for the drop in price of used NDSs...

Won’t happen - broken gesr just doesn’t sell.

there will be more second hand nds when the nd555 will be on the market.  So perhaps a little drop in price.....

But the effect of the ND555 will be to make the NDS sound broken: surely no-one will then want to buy one?

Noogle posted:

Excitedly waiting for the drop in price of used NDSs...

Yeah that is smart, cause there will be some perfectly good Naim NDS streamers up for sale for a good deal once ND555 becomes available! 

Innocent Bystander posted:

French Rooster posted:

Innocent Bystander posted:

Noogle posted:

Excitedly waiting for the drop in price of used NDSs...

Won’t happen - broken gesr just doesn’t sell.

there will be more second hand nds when the nd555 will be on the market.  So perhaps a little drop in price.....

But the effect of the ND555 will be to make the NDS sound broken: surely no-one will then want to buy one?

A lot of people will not be able afford a ND555, and a half price used NDS will sound mighty fine ! 

musicfan51 posted:

Innocent Bystander posted:

French Rooster posted:

Innocent Bystander posted:

Noogle posted:

Excitedly waiting for the drop in price of used NDSs...

Won’t happen - broken gesr just doesn’t sell.

there will be more second hand nds when the nd555 will be on the market.  So perhaps a little drop in price.....

But the effect of the ND555 will be to make the NDS sound broken: surely no-one will then want to buy one?

A lot of people will not be able afford a ND555, and a half price used NDS will sound mighty fine ! 

Nah, they’ll all sound broken - wait till you hear people say it when they hear the ND555...

An NDS with the ND555 firmware update will sound 90% as good at 20% of the price.

I was expecting to get many good years out of my NDX, but with all the NDS's that will be on the market at such discounts I may just have to trade up! 

........of course that is most likely a year or more into the future......