ND555

Sorry missed the Linn one....I hope they do their own thing, but I still believe they benchmark their products.

Alba1320 posted:

Gazza posted:

You have to believe that Naim have Chord and dcs products in their lab to use as comparisons. So I personally don,t think we will be disappointed.

Naim, it is said, have tended to do what they think is right, irrespective of what others do, and are (or at least have been, perhaps more so with the JV era than today) seen as something of an 'outsider' in the world of Hi-Fi, so I doubt it (and hope not - if you want a Chord or dcs, then why not get a Chord or dcs?).

Next, you'll be saying that they have a Linn KDS/3 there, too.

I’d be surprised at any equipment R&D department not keeping itself aware of what the competition is doing, and so making sure that they at least hear for themselves anything that gets crediblility as a challenger for their target customers.

That certainly does not mean copying, but genuine awareness can only be helpful.

RICHYH posted:

Following on from many posts above, I want throw my hat in the ring.

I have a statement, and look forward with great anticipation the nd555. It will fit perfectly in the fraim next to the pre amp.  I dont believe a statement level streamer is yet manufactured or may not be even possible with current digital products.

Also I have listened to Chord and DCS and would not call either statement level streaming products.

hımmmm i would not except anything less than a statement with that nickname

Emre posted:

RICHYH posted:

Following on from many posts above, I want throw my hat in the ring.

I have a statement, and look forward with great anticipation the nd555. It will fit perfectly in the fraim next to the pre amp.  I dont believe a statement level streamer is yet manufactured or may not be even possible with current digital products.

Also I have listened to Chord and DCS and would not call either statement level streaming products.

hımmmm i would not except anything less than a statement with that nickname

I was just thinking the same thing then I turned onto page 5 and found your post

Naim have missed a huge opportunity here as they should have bought out a new ndac and a separate streaming renderer.  People with older units could have kept them and their psu’s  and added the new ndac and those with Dacs they are happy with could have bought just the renderer. 

I hope that is what trickles down from this, I think I am going to be disappointed though.????

Bob the Builder posted:

Naim have missed a huge opportunity here as they should have bought out a new ndac and a separate streaming renderer.  People with older units could have kept them and their psu’s  and added the new ndac and those with Dacs they are happy with could have bought just the renderer. 

my main naim dealer in Paris said me he is essentially selling streamers, very rarely dacs..  I don’t even know if naim will produce a new dac.   I agree with you, i would like too to see a new dac and separated streamer. I would be able to upgrade my nds in the future,  without having to invest in a costly nd555.   

However, the DAC is likely to be the main cost of the ND555 by far, and having the renderer in a separate box might not make the DAC a lot cheaper, though the extra box and everything asspciated with it would make the combined units even more expensive. It may be Naim’s view that if you are spending maybe  80% or more of the projected ND555 cost on a DAC, it would make more sense to go the whole hog and have a streamer/player at the full price, and at the same tome avoid all the potential pitfalls of digital cabling, RF interference etc.

analogmusic posted:

I think there is not going to be any statement streamer until it is capable of being just that "a statement" of the best digital audio in the world.

That's another game - one being played very well by Chord and DCS.

and EMM, Playback, Berkeley, Metronome, totaldac + ...

This is where I am quite skeptic myself: NDS had the analogue stage optimized. The new reference streamer will use the new platform, thus improving on NDS in the areas of WiFi, package handling, buffering, Roon readiness, streaming services availability - all of them good things in themselves albeit aspects of a good renderer.

Not touching the DAC itself though does not bode well for claiming the top spot in this game.

And we have no evidence that NAIM has invested in DAC R&D. I happily stand to be corrected on this ! 

... 

the dac inside the streamer is really 80% of the price approximately?   are you sure or is it an hypothesis?

It would be interesting to be able to upgrade a naim streamer like the nds with a better naim dac or send , like with linn, the nds for nds2 upgrade:  but no way to upgrade it without loosing money.

Nd5x, ndx, can be upgraded with ndac.    I prefer naim sound but linn philosophy.

DrPo posted

 

And we have no evidence that NAIM has invested in DAC R&D. 

You also have no evidence that they haven’t

The nDAC and NDS use the same DAC chip (1704). I read somewhere that the CDX2 uses the same chip but I have not seen that in a white paper. The NDX and 272 use different chips but similar design. 

Given that the nDAC is just over a third of the price of the NDS I can’t see why people want to pay so much for a DAC. As I said separate boxes for DAC and streamer would be my choice. 

The CD555DR PS has the same metallic finish as the Core for those wanting a more modern look. I prefer the matt finish.

[@mention:12970396060785205] I have the CD555DR PS now fitted to my nDAC, and it certainly immediately announces itself with more bass and leading edge (I’m listening to Schubert’s Quintet D.956 and Symphony No.5 conducted by Pablo Casals). As long as the sound does not stay hard for everything once it’s warmed up, it could be staying.  Maybe some Dire Straights (On Every Street) on next! May have a nice XPSDR for sale.

Phil

You can get the PS555 in the standard black painted finish for a bit less than the anodised finish. It visually matches the non 500 series better that way. 

Richieroo posted:

I think that the new ND555 streamer - will be feature rich roon, more resolution formats etc , but I still think it is going to have a tough time improving meaningfully on the NDS sonically. The psu and analogue circuits - are super critical regarding noise - and their inference on the sound. When you play a really good 44.1 flac on the NDS it can sound staggering - depending on the production and original mastering - so huge sample rates are not the whole story. I would think the whole psu structure would need to change - you almost need a 2 box streamer one section for digital and one for analogue .... maybe thats the Statement Streamer to come!

I am listening to a really good recording on my NDS/555DR uniticore setup and trying to imagine a streamer that sounds tons better!  ND555 may just sound different, a different flavor so to say with better features but if people are expecting it to be like 40% better SQ They may Be disappointed. It will sound better but it is not going to reinvent sound ! 

French Rooster posted:

the dac inside the streamer is really 80% of the price approximately?   are you sure or is it an hypothesis?

It would be interesting to be able to upgrade a naim streamer like the nds with a better naim dac or send , like with linn, the nds for nds2 upgrade:  but no way to upgrade it without loosing money.

Nd5x, ndx, can be upgraded with ndac.    I prefer naim sound but linn philosophy.

It is my guess that that is what the DAC would cost in a stand-alone box. And the renderer might then be something like 40% if it was in a stand-alone box. 

My guess is the colour of the front panel illumination will be optional from green to white. That allows for adopting to the new design for a few statement owners and the integration in the classic line...

Innocent Bystander posted:

French Rooster posted:

the dac inside the streamer is really 80% of the price approximately?   are you sure or is it an hypothesis?

It would be interesting to be able to upgrade a naim streamer like the nds with a better naim dac or send , like with linn, the nds for nds2 upgrade:  but no way to upgrade it without loosing money.

Nd5x, ndx, can be upgraded with ndac.    I prefer naim sound but linn philosophy.

It is my guess that that is what the DAC would cost in a stand-alone box. And the renderer might then be something like 40% if it was in a stand-alone box. 

Don't confuse cost of manufacture with the price that's charged.

Noogle posted:

Innocent Bystander posted:

French Rooster posted:

the dac inside the streamer is really 80% of the price approximately?   are you sure or is it an hypothesis?

It would be interesting to be able to upgrade a naim streamer like the nds with a better naim dac or send , like with linn, the nds for nds2 upgrade:  but no way to upgrade it without loosing money.

Nd5x, ndx, can be upgraded with ndac.    I prefer naim sound but linn philosophy.

It is my guess that that is what the DAC would cost in a stand-alone box. And the renderer might then be something like 40% if it was in a stand-alone box. 

Don't confuse cost of manufacture with the price that's charged.

I wasn’t

musicfan51 posted:

Richieroo posted:

I think that the new ND555 streamer - will be feature rich roon, more resolution formats etc , but I still think it is going to have a tough time improving meaningfully on the NDS sonically. The psu and analogue circuits - are super critical regarding noise - and their inference on the sound. When you play a really good 44.1 flac on the NDS it can sound staggering - depending on the production and original mastering - so huge sample rates are not the whole story. I would think the whole psu structure would need to change - you almost need a 2 box streamer one section for digital and one for analogue .... maybe thats the Statement Streamer to come!

I am listening to a really good recording on my NDS/555DR uniticore setup and trying to imagine a streamer that sounds tons better!  ND555 may just sound different, a different flavor so to say with better features but if people are expecting it to be like 40% better SQ They may Be disappointed. It will sound better but it is not going to reinvent sound ! 

When I had a Hugo, I couldnt imagine anything sounding significantly better. 

The sound may well be advanced on the ND555 but at the current level of DAC performances this becomes less of an issue - as personal preferences come into play  - but what I would most expect from the new streamer is increased consistency which is the weakness of the current streamers... ie Tidal should sound the same for the same master as local streamed content - it doesn't on the current streamers usually - on the ND555 i will be looking for equivalence - hopefully Naim will be there or a lot closer...

S

Filipe posted:

[@mention:12970396060785205] I have the CD555DR PS now fitted to my nDAC, and it certainly immediately announces itself with more bass and leading edge (I’m listening to Schubert’s Quintet D.956 and Symphony No.5 conducted by Pablo Casals). As long as the sound does not stay hard for everything once it’s warmed up, it could be staying.  Maybe some Dire Straights (On Every Street) on next! May have a nice XPSDR for sale.

Phil

Nice one, Phil. The thorough warm-up is worth the wait.  

Hungryhalibut posted:

DrPo posted

 

And we have no evidence that NAIM has invested in DAC R&D. 

You also have no evidence that they haven’t

I'd be amazed if they aren't investing in DAC R&D

Don't the new Uniti products have new DACs ?

Surely some trickle UP tech is to follow ?

elkman70 posted:

Exactly as I predicted in a recent thread.

I bet a price tag of circa £12k plus 555ps.

You hope the 555 works with the ND555. I would not be surprised if they introduced a new PS for this.

Kevin Richardson posted:

That wouldn’t make sense... the 555PS was introduced for the CD555.  If the ND555 needed a new power supply, then surely they would call the streamer the ND575 (or something like that) and the power supply the 575PS?

Eloise posted:

Kevin Richardson posted:

That wouldn’t make sense... the 555PS was introduced for the CD555.  If the ND555 needed a new power supply, then surely they would call the streamer the ND575 (or something like that) and the power supply the 575PS?

Statement PS ?

And the bank balance haemorrhage continues !