ND555

MDS posted:

Filipe posted:

[@mention:12970396060785205] I have the CD555DR PS now fitted to my nDAC, and it certainly immediately announces itself with more bass and leading edge (I’m listening to Schubert’s Quintet D.956 and Symphony No.5 conducted by Pablo Casals). As long as the sound does not stay hard for everything once it’s warmed up, it could be staying.  Maybe some Dire Straights (On Every Street) on next! May have a nice XPSDR for sale.

Phil

Nice one, Phil. The thorough warm-up is worth the wait.  

[@mention:12970396060785205] The 555DR PS is beginning to soften and bring out more magic even with the TV. It looks like a good step on its own. Would £12k be too much for a 7 year old DRed 552?

Phil

All I ask is that the display can be turned off. Like all other 500/Classic components.

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

The sound may well be advanced on the ND555 but at the current level of DAC performances this becomes less of an issue - as personal preferences come into play  - but what I would most expect from the new streamer is increased consistency which is the weakness of the current streamers... ie Tidal should sound the same for the same master as local streamed content - it doesn't on the current streamers usually - on the ND555 i will be looking for equivalence - hopefully Naim will be there or a lot closer...

S

I understand that bringing web streaming up to the standard of local UPnP was a big part of the design brief for the new streaming platform. I keep thinking I should sit down and compare a few tracks just out of curiosity, but I I'm not sure how easy it will be on my humble Atom. Having said that, if the new platform achieves this consistency, it will presumably be on all the new streamers, so the ND555 will still need to offer more than that.  

ChrisSU posted:

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

The sound may well be advanced on the ND555 but at the current level of DAC performances this becomes less of an issue - as personal preferences come into play  - but what I would most expect from the new streamer is increased consistency which is the weakness of the current streamers... ie Tidal should sound the same for the same master as local streamed content - it doesn't on the current streamers usually - on the ND555 i will be looking for equivalence - hopefully Naim will be there or a lot closer...

S

I understand that bringing web streaming up to the standard of local UPnP was a big part of the design brief for the new streaming platform. I keep thinking I should sit down and compare a few tracks just out of curiosity, but I I'm not sure how easy it will be on my humble Atom. Having said that, if the new platform achieves this consistency, it will presumably be on all the new streamers, so the ND555 will still need to offer more than that.  

But there is still the variability/reliability/speed of the internet connection, over which the streamer has no control (possibly other than adding a huge buffering capacity, though that won’t deal with all possible problems), so local storage still could prove better.

Innocent Bystander posted:

But there is still the variability/reliability/speed of the internet connection, over which the streamer has no control (possibly other than adding a huge buffering capacity, though that won’t deal with all possible problems), so local storage still could prove better.

You also don’t return to your “favourite” music to find a month later an album (or even weirder parts of an album) are no longer available...

Filipe posted:

MDS posted:

Filipe posted:

[@mention:12970396060785205] I have the CD555DR PS now fitted to my nDAC, and it certainly immediately announces itself with more bass and leading edge (I’m listening to Schubert’s Quintet D.956 and Symphony No.5 conducted by Pablo Casals). As long as the sound does not stay hard for everything once it’s warmed up, it could be staying.  Maybe some Dire Straights (On Every Street) on next! May have a nice XPSDR for sale.

Phil

Nice one, Phil. The thorough warm-up is worth the wait.  

[@mention:12970396060785205] The 555DR PS is beginning to soften and bring out more magic even with the TV. It looks like a good step on its own. Would £12k be too much for a 7 year old DRed 552?

Phil

If a service was done at the same time as the DR and the provenance is good e.g. a pre-loved 552DR supplied by a Naim dealer, that sounds pretty reasonable to me.  

Oh, yes, Phil. Presumably you'll get a good trade-in price for your 282/SCDR against the 552DR?

Hungryhalibut posted:

DrPo posted

 

And we have no evidence that NAIM has invested in DAC R&D. 

You also have no evidence that they haven’t

Witty answer, HH, but from a methodological point of view rather unusual - if not downright meaningless by definition. Incidentally, I think I added that “I would be happy to be proven wrong” or something to that effect. 

MDS posted:

Oh, yes, Phil. Presumably you'll get a good trade-in price for your 282/SCDR against the 552DR?

The 552 is not from a Naim dealer so I would have to persuade my dealer to buy the 282/SuperCap DR or go on eBay via my daughter.

The 555 is so good though, but of course the 552 would improve things further.

Phil

I've lost the logic naming Naim kit

I understand the 52, 252, 552 thing

CDS became NDS, CDX became NDX

But why 555 ?

Why not just CD500 and ND500 ?

i think 555 sounds better and more interesting than 500 - and it might be something as simple as that

and CD555 became ND555

An ND555 dac section on par with what Dave currently offers would reassure customers they made the right choice again, buying a brand well deserving its reputation. 

Filipe posted:

MDS posted:

Oh, yes, Phil. Presumably you'll get a good trade-in price for your 282/SCDR against the 552DR?

The 552 is not from a Naim dealer so I would have to persuade my dealer to buy the 282/SuperCap DR or go on eBay via my daughter.

The 555 is so good though, but of course the 552 would improve things further.

Phil

If a private purchase I think you can check on the Naim website whether the serial number corresponds with the age claimed for the unit.

Dan.S posted:

An ND555 dac section on par with what Dave currently offers would reassure customers they made the right choice again, buying a brand well deserving its reputation. 

Are Dave owners not content that they made the same ight choice, and is Chord not deserving irs reputation? (And I should ask as a fundamental part of the last question, is Chord’s reputation not good, albeit not as long established as Naim?)

DL_Audio posted:

and CD555 became ND555

Ah, now it all begins to make sense  

Dan.S posted:

An ND555 dac section on par with what Dave currently offers would reassure customers they made the right choice again, buying a brand well deserving its reputation. 

It depends what you mean and how you are comparing. We will have to wait for implementation and chipset details... as well as obviously listening to it... technically Chord Electronics Hugo and Dave have more accurate reconstruction than the current Naim DACs/Streamers and even the CD555. However better accuracy and detail doesn’t necessarily mean prefereable sound for all clearly.

I suspect (and hope) the big plus for the ND555 will be performance consistency across transport types and streaming conditions and optimisation to more closely resemble and exceed the CD555 sonic character. I’d be surprised if Naim depart from their more traditional DAC approach.... as there is a lot of know how on optimising that architecture now albeit it’s quite classic and established in approach... but we will have to wait and see.

All DAC reconstruction is necessarily a compromise and at this level I believe it’s about personal preference on how it’s done and where the compromises are made.

I’ve always preferred the CDS3 to the CD555; the CDS3 just seems more musical. So my hope is that the ND555 resoundingly betters the CDS3, rather than resembling the CD555. 

You’re not alone in that view Nigel but as much as I love my CDS3 I’d have a CD555 tomorrow.  The performance is colossal.  

Regards,

Lindsay

Indeed, the anecdote I heard was the ND555 was to sound more musical than the CD555... there was a view, apparently, by some the NDS fell a little short to the CD555 here.... but as I say all hearsay...

I personally was ultimately underwhelmed by the CDS3 and sold mine on after having not owned it for too long... so I would be looking forward to something somewhat different.... 

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

I personally was ultimately underwhelmed by the CDS3 and sold mine on after having not owned it for too long... so I would be looking forward to something somewhat different.... 

Same here re CDS3.

Apart from exceeding the CD555 in terms of sound quality and convenience, I am hoping it needs no more than 2 boxes to deliver the performance.  Not sure I would be willing to let the CD555 go and am reaching the vertical limits of Fraim!

Gavin L posted:

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

I personally was ultimately underwhelmed by the CDS3 and sold mine on after having not owned it for too long... so I would be looking forward to something somewhat different.... 

Same here re CDS3.

Apart from exceeding the CD555 in terms of sound quality and convenience, I am hoping it needs no more than 2 boxes to deliver the performance.  Not sure I would be willing to let the CD555 go and am reaching the vertical limits of Fraim!

It is interesting how some want the new ND555 to sound similar to CDS3, others want it to sound similar to CD555. Now I understand why some like the sound of NDS and others do not . We all hear differently. So how does Naim engineers design the perfect sounding streamer we all agree is incredible ?  I bet there will be disagreement on how good it is when it finally is released. Some are going to love it, others not as much. But I guess that is why there is so many different electronic and speaker companies. What sounds great to one person just is not so great to another . It is interesting though!  I hope this new ND555 is fantastic so there is little disagreement. That is a lot of pressure on Naim though .  

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

The sound may well be advanced on the ND555 but at the current level of DAC performances this becomes less of an issue - as personal preferences come into play  - but what I would most expect from the new streamer is increased consistency which is the weakness of the current streamers... ie Tidal should sound the same for the same master as local streamed content - it doesn't on the current streamers usually - on the ND555 i will be looking for equivalence - hopefully Naim will be there or a lot closer...

S

I suspect no streamer will be able to remove the Tidal watermarking

And what generalised water marking is that, references please..... I have looked at a limited subset of samples for the same masters previously and noticed nothing untoward...  specific distributors such as  UMG are believed to watermark their digitally distributed  masters, and not Tidal LOL... and in that case  you may well find that watermarking is on all downloads and digitally streamed media from that distributor on whatever platform. It’s the distributor you need to watch, not the platform...

BTW I forgot to say you can train yourself to be able to detect audio watermarks

http://mattmontag.com/audio-listening-test/

There are also watermark analyzers that  you can use to  extract the copyright info  from the media .. so you see what is watermarked and what isn’t...

In my experience watermarked files are noticeably inferior and distorted in the mid frequencies compared to non watermarked files...