Mains cable - advise

I use TQ wires and found their mains cables a very good upgrade too. There is a certain synergy when using a full loom by the same manufacturer. 

I’ve been through a lot of cables. And wasted money on them.

At the end of the day I kept coming back to Naim’s.

So - start with the Naim standard ones. Gradually start replacing them with PowerLines as funds become available.

That’s my advice.

Finkfan posted:

I use TQ wires and found their mains cables a very good upgrade too. There is a certain synergy when using a full loom by the same manufacturer. 

Thank you Finkfan, do you use both the blue and black?

Yes. I have ultra blue on my 272 and black on my 250DR. They’re not going anywhere. I appreciate they’re not for everyone, but they work for me. 

If possible, how would you describe them?

Much like their interconnects and speaker cables, but not on the same scale. More air, bigger soundstage more musical with improved PRaT, at least to my ears. The ultra blue seems to reduce the bass a little, whereas the black has strong bass. Combining the two in my system sounds superb. 

When it comes to mains supply and cables, there’s a hierarchy that financially you’d be well advised to pay attention to. In terms of impact on sound, this is what I have found.

1. Mains block (a good, equal earth is most important for sound quality, all elements of your system need to see the ‘same’ earth. The earth drains garbage from your system, so step 1 is to ensure an electrically ‘clean’ , noise free system).
2. Mains supply from consumer unit. A dedicated supply using high quality cable with proven audio qualities will bring the most gains....installed by a qualified electrician of course. The regular house mains carries an awful lot of noise and transients from cheap switched power supplies and poorly suppressed switches. Quality trumps quantity so use a good quality sonically proven cable rather than gambling on cheap, heavy duty cable that may or may not improve sound quality,
3. Mains cables for individual components

In isolation a small(ish) investment in 1 & 2 will bring far bigger results in terms of sound quality than a large investment in 3.  In other words don’t waste money on 3 until you’ve done a good job with 1 & 2.

?? the standard supplied Naim I-shenq mains cable is the best! With other mains cables you loose on the Naim sound.

Finkfan posted:

I use TQ wires and found their mains cables a very good upgrade too. There is a certain synergy when using a full loom by the same manufacturer. 

+ 1

further add to use the same mains cable for every component.

Some brands market them with various levels and with intended usages, one for source, another for pre/int and others for heavy draw power amps - I would only recommend this if you really trust your ears and know exactly what you want.    

Spent far to long swapping over different cables on different boxes wondering what gave the best result, and couldn't relax into a listening session before wondering wether a particular album would sound better with another combination.

Is there any way to tell the Naim standard mains apart? The one I have from 2006 that came with Nait5-i2 seem to differ and rellay do sound different from the one that came with my 2017 SN2?

M37 posted:

Is there any way to tell the Naim standard mains apart? The one I have from 2006 that came with Nait5-i2 seem to differ and rellay do sound different from the one that came with my 2017 SN2?

Classic series boxes which include the SN2 now come withPowerline Lite (PLL) leads in the U.K., as of April last year I think. The easiest way to tell is that the pins in the plug are intentionally wobbly in the PLL. 

My experience is that price or brand is no indicator of mains cable (or interconnect) performance in a given system or room. I've previously had three Powerlines in my system and reduced from there to less-expensive alternatives I found better-performing. This included systems with all Naim boxes, then with other manufacturers in the mix.

I view mains cords and interconnects as filters/tweaks to the overall system sound. No absolutes as to which will work best for your own sonic preferences. My rule is to demo cables only from sellers that offer a money-back trial period (most 30-60 days).  That way you can try them at home and if they don't work you're on the hook only for return shipping. The cost for mailing cables is rather minimal.

As far as alternatives to Naim - the choices are copious - I've found $130 mains cables that outperformed a Powerline in my system.  No need to mention the brand or level because it's strictly a personal choice and a trial and error approach.

Eoink posted:

M37 posted:

Is there any way to tell the Naim standard mains apart? The one I have from 2006 that came with Nait5-i2 seem to differ and rellay do sound different from the one that came with my 2017 SN2?

Classic series boxes which include the SN2 now come withPowerline Lite (PLL) leads in the U.K., as of April last year I think. The easiest way to tell is that the pins in the plug are intentionally wobbly in the PLL. 

The PLL plug is black - the older leads came with white (Crabtree / MK) 13A plugs.

james n posted:

Eoink posted:

M37 posted:

Is there any way to tell the Naim standard mains apart? The one I have from 2006 that came with Nait5-i2 seem to differ and rellay do sound different from the one that came with my 2017 SN2?

Classic series boxes which include the SN2 now come withPowerline Lite (PLL) leads in the U.K., as of April last year I think. The easiest way to tell is that the pins in the plug are intentionally wobbly in the PLL. 

The PLL plug is black - the older leads came with white (Crabtree / MK) 13A plugs.

Ah yeah, looking at the plug colour might be an easier thing to check than wobbling the pins. Oops.

There's another clue for the sharp eye'd reader.   

Mike-B posted:

There's another clue for the sharp eye'd reader.   

 

I refer to the the standard "kettle leads" that came with my SN2 amp?  Not the Powerline Light, I use Schuko plugs.

M37 posted:

Is there any way to tell the Naim standard mains apart? The one I have from 2006 that came with Nait5-i2 seem to differ and rellay do sound different from the one that came with my 2017 SN2?

---------------------------------------

I refer to the the standard "kettle leads" that came with my SN2 amp?  Not the Powerline Light, I use Schuko plugs.

Sorry about the PowerLine-Lite plug 'joke',  others had assumed your question was the UK 13a plug & thats started the misunderstanding.   With  the UK Powerline Lite,   compared to the previous standard cable:  the plug colour is different, (it was white, its now black)  the new plug pins are slightly loose & my 'joke' is it has the word Naim embossed in the plastic.

I believe the same cable & moulded IEC 320 plug is supplied with the Schuko plug for units in mainland Europe.   

Do they sound different (your question),    I expect they have changed over time,  but I have no idea about sound changes.  If you have an old & new to compare,  do they look different, & what do you think??

i think with naim the dynamics are quite different compared to other brands. apparently shielded cables degrade the sound. likewise gold plated connectors etc. 

with my unitiqute i found that the stock cable outperformed the likes of oyaide, shunyata etc.

in this context wonder if anybody has tried the shunyata defender which is a stand alone unit and plugs directly into the wall and is not directly/physically connected to the audio component.

if you are in the usa you can check the offerings by avoptions. else in the uk, the powerline lite seems to be a good option.

I'm not sure the story about shielded cables degrade sound is fact or myth ??   In my experience shielded cables do not degrade the sound,  or at least not the ones I have now.

The Shunyata Defender products are not available in Europe,  but we have similar products,  the ones I seen & tried have VDR's & I believe they can degrade the sound. 

M37 posted:

........... it's unfortunate that the Powerline Lite only is available in UK plug.

The Powerline Lite IS the Naim designed UK plug,  It also has a good quality moulded IEC 320 socket/plug & cable & I believe that same IEC 320 cable is the one supplied with the Schuko plug.