Super Lumina Interconnect and Speaker Cables quandary?

I would hang fire and save for an XPS first. Unless the deal is very good, in which case you could get the cables anyway, but the PSU upgrade makes a 272 sound so much better, that would be my top priority in your system. 

Good point, well made........ but just under half price. It is tempting, but more in the heart department than the head.

BTW, SWMBO agrees with you.

KR, J

But has SWMBO heard the SL yet? I wouldn’t let a chance like this slip away. Listen to your heart!

Make sure you don’t intend to move to a 300 as two monos are required rather than a single stereo DIN XLR.

Phil

If they are just under half price, I’d go for it. You can get an XPS later. They really are a great upgrade, and of course, with the 272/250 you only need the three wires. But - if it’s a case of wires or XPS, and if by getting the wires you’d never get the XPS, then get the XPS. 

I think the SL IC is a nice SQ uograde. I haven't heard the SL SC yet but will probably end up with a pair at some point. I hope they have as much of an impact as the SL IC has on my system. 

I've run Super Lumina speaker cable in multiple systems (big and small).  The improvement in sound quality over NACA5 has upset my conventional wisdom... in the past I would have suggested a better source or power supply. I now think that SL speaker cable should be strongly considered for any system upgrade.  Even in my humble UnitiQute2/NAP100 office system the SL made a dramatic improvement to the music: much more resolution, texture and bass. Yes, Its that good.    

At just under half price it's still expensive. I'd want a way out. Although I suppose you could sell them on. 

My demo leads were brand new and sounded awful. So awful that we were not all that enthusiastic about pressing on. But we did and they stayed. Because they are good (according to our ears) - when run in.

Presumably, the half price ones will be run in? Are they ex demo or pre owned? If the latter, there will be a reason why someone didn't want them. It may have nothing to do with how they sounded. But it is worth noting that not everyone will love them as much as some of us do, and no one can evaluate them using your ears. Except you.

When I tried them I equated the SL cables as equivalent to a back-box upgrade.  At a bargain price, I go for them.  

DR_J - Have you heard the SL cables in your system and if so what have you compared them with? 

They’re only a bargain if you’d otherwise have happily paid full price for them and you’ll only know that by trying them. 

I would go for it, the Superlumina cables are good, and equal to a black box upgrade.

The speaker cable is very good, and the DIN/XLR is fantastic. 

the clarity, realism,timbre accuracy, freedom from congestion, soundstange, bass grip are much better with Superlumina. 

And no loss of the rhythmic and timing abilities of the older Naim cables.

I would use the cable that was designed to work with your amp, that way you are assured of getting the sound that was intended.

SL cables do all the Hi-Fi things people really like these days, they just don't do the Naim thing as well. That's my opinion.

I would get the PS for the 272.

badlands posted:

I would use the cable that was designed to work with your amp, that way you are assured of getting the sound that was intended.

SL cables do all the Hi-Fi things people really like these days, they just don't do the Naim thing as well. That's my opinion.

I would get the PS for the 272.

I can see badlands point, because SL won’t change the fact that without a power supply the box (whether it be 272, CDX2, nDAC etc) will sound basic without any magic. I’d go a step further and say that the XPSDR will take the box further, but not as far as the 555 DR PS which will reveal the music fully. You will probably want the SL as well. So it depends on your own financial situation a bit, and I can not advise on that.

Phil

Chris Dolan posted:

DR_J - Have you heard the SL cables in your system and if so what have you compared them with? 

Yes, and with the current interconnects and Epic speaker cable I currently use - my impressions match those of others both on the forum and in this thread.

Another good point well made.

KR, J

Dave J posted:

They’re only a bargain if you’d otherwise have happily paid full price for them and you’ll only know that by trying them. 

Whether I would have happily paid full price, or indeed paid full price at all, is debatable, but I would undoubtedly enjoy the results of the purchase .

I get the repeated recommendations re the XPS, but that’s not really an option right now, so it’s really down to cables or not cables.

Thanks to  all for the solid advice as ever.

KR, J

Dr_J posted:

Dave J posted:

They’re only a bargain if you’d otherwise have happily paid full price for them and you’ll only know that by trying them. 

Whether I would have happily paid full price, or indeed paid full price at all, is debatable, but I would undoubtedly enjoy the results of the purchase .

I get the repeated recommendations re the XPS, but that’s not really an option right now, so it’s really down to cables or not cables.

Thanks to  all for the solid advice as ever.

KR, J

In which case, you’ve answered your question. Enjoy your new cables.

I can't agree with some of the posts here, for me the DIN/XLR upgrade is a "Must do" upgrade, before any PSU upgrade.

I would say the changes brought about by changing the speaker cable from NACA5 to SL rival or exceed black box changes.

My opinion.

Badlands - by the way I had the chance to compare with Dynaudio excite X44 to the new Contour 60.

I'm not surprised you can't hear the benefits of cables or amplifier upgrades (after all you state that the 282/250 isn't that much better than the SN2) - well it's so obvious to me, the Excite range is very basic (after all, entry level just above the emit range) and just doesn't have the resolution to show these changes.

At this level of 282/250 and Superlumina cables, these are fairly hi-end kit, and you just can't hear the benefits of this with such basic Dynaudio speakers. I'm quite surprised you continue to post your opinions based on experience with such an entry level speaker.

The X44 sounded crude, broken, and completely unlistenable compared to the Contour 60.

My opinion, but there's no way the Excite range should be used to make serious evaluations.

In terms of the PSU, for the 272 I'd very much commend the XPS DR rather than the 'straight' XPS2.  The 272s are built to exploit the DR technology.  I also suggest having a quick look for a s/h XPS DR.

Finally if you do go for the wires, then at some time, when you can justify about £4k to £4k5, keep a look out for a s/h 555DR, it's an enormous uplift to the 272 - that combo works really well.

If your long term view is to get a PS and high end cables I would go for whatever cut price deal you get first. In this case it looks like SL cables. For a Naim system there are others that can possibly match or even better SLs , but such cables are of a magnitude greater cost as well.

The great thing about Naim, which is one of their biggest assets in my book, is they do not bring out new models each year. In the non digital area their products stand the test of time for decades. So, getting them half price and assuming they are in good running order, you will be able to sell them on and not make a loss, probably even a small profit.

Back to your question, I would recommend going for it if you have the funds

I recently bought a second hand set of SL speaker cables, and also have a second hand SL IC. In my system both made a very noticeable positive difference. Like some others here I would say that together they are comparable to a box upgrade. I hear more detail and the mid range in particular sounds less congested compared to A5. The micro dynamics are communicated better. Also bass notes have a timbre that I never heard before. These cables are extremely expensive new but IMHO a relatively low risk second hand buy. If you don’t like them you can alsways sell them on relatively easily. I’m now on the look-out for a  second hand SL DIN/XLR to complete my loom. Good luck with your decision!

Huge posted:

In terms of the PSU, for the 272 I'd very much commend the XPS DR rather than the 'straight' XPS2.  The 272s are built to exploit the DR technology.  I also suggest having a quick look for a s/h XPS DR.

Finally if you do go for the wires, then at some time, when you can justify about £4k to £4k5, keep a look out for a s/h 555DR, it's an enormous uplift to the 272 - that combo works really well.

Fully agree on both points. I will very probably keep the 555DR I have on loan for my nDAC and sell my almost 2 year old XPSDR. Dealer can’t offer much because they have to add 20% VAT. I don’t like eBay.

Phil

Filipe posted:

Fully agree on both points. I will very probably keep the 555DR I have on loan for my nDAC and sell my almost 2 year old XPSDR. Dealer can’t offer much because they have to add 20% VAT. I don’t like eBay.

Phil

It sounds like the dealer is being "economical with the truth".

They only have to add 20% VAT to the difference between their purchase cost from you and their eventual selling price (including postage if any).  That's why it's called Value Added Tax.

They don't pay any tax on the part of selling price that they used to buy it from you - to them that's a pure business expense that can be paid directly from pre-tax funds.

analogmusic posted:

I can't agree with some of the posts here, for me the DIN/XLR upgrade is a "Must do" upgrade, before any PSU upgrade.

I would say the changes brought about by changing the speaker cable from NACA5 to SL rival or exceed black box changes.

My opinion.

Badlands - by the way I had the chance to compare with Dynaudio excite X44 to the new Contour 60.

I'm not surprised you can't hear the benefits of cables or amplifier upgrades (after all you state that the 282/250 isn't that much better than the SN2) - well it's so obvious to me, the Excite range is very basic (after all, entry level just above the emit range) and just doesn't have the resolution to show these changes.

At this level of 282/250 and Superlumina cables, these are fairly hi-end kit, and you just can't hear the benefits of this with such basic Dynaudio speakers. I'm quite surprised you continue to post your opinions based on experience with such an entry level speaker.

The X44 sounded crude, broken, and completely unlistenable compared to the Contour 60.

My opinion, but there's no way the Excite range should be used to make serious evaluations.

 

 

Interesting, though contrary to this, there is a strong swell of ‘source first’ exponents who have argued that it doesn’t matter what speakers you have as they still will pass on improvements upstream, and you will always hear the difference. Not something with which I have ever agreed, though I hadn’t deigned to force myself to use such a limiting speaker to find out.

And there are of course two other factors that can affect people’s ability to hear certain changes/differences, namely the effect of the listening room, and the individual him/herself (ears and how they listen to and perceive music).

Huge posted:

Filipe posted:

Fully agree on both points. I will very probably keep the 555DR I have on loan for my nDAC and sell my almost 2 year old XPSDR. Dealer can’t offer much because they have to add 20% VAT. I don’t like eBay.

Phil

It sounds like the dealer is being "economical with the truth".

They only have to add 20% VAT to the difference between their purchase cost from you and their eventual selling price (including postage if any).  That's why it's called Value Added Tax.

They don't pay any tax on the part of selling price that they used to buy it from you - to them that's a pure business expense that can be paid directly from pre-tax funds.

Huge, Thank you for the clarification. I had been meaning to investigate. I will be a bit harder with him if he is to keep my trade.

Phil