Super Lumina Interconnect and Speaker Cables quandary?

Innocent Bystander posted:

Interesting, though contrary to this, there is a strong swell of ‘source first’ exponents who have argued that it doesn’t matter what speakers you have as they still will pass on improvements upstream, and you will always hear the difference. Not something with which I have ever agreed, though I hadn’t deigned to force myself to use such a limiting speaker to find out.

And there are of course two other factors that can affect people’s ability to hear certain changes/differences, namely the effect of the listening room, and the individual him/herself (ears and how they listen to and perceive music).

 Well, I've done it both ways...  (Prices are corrected for inflation to reflect current values)

£2500 speakers on a £500 amp and £700 CD Player

£99 speakers on a £3400 streamer + £7000 PSU and £7900 amp

Both sounded good in their own way.

However the £2500 speakers were bought a long time ago:
At that time they cost £550, even with £200 amplification and a £350 CD player, they were way better than all the £350 competition with £500 amplification and £600 CD players.  It's very much a matter of synergy and personal taste - there may have been a better combination of £350 speakers with £500 amplification and £600 CD player; but I never found it, and I listened to a LOT of systems.

Huge posted:

In terms of the PSU, for the 272 I'd very much commend the XPS DR rather than the 'straight' XPS2.  The 272s are built to exploit the DR technology.  I also suggest having a quick look for a s/h XPS DR.

Finally if you do go for the wires, then at some time, when you can justify about £4k to £4k5, keep a look out for a s/h 555DR, it's an enormous uplift to the 272 - that combo works really well.

I agree wholeheartedly after trying a 555PS non-DR and then subsequently much preferring the XPSDR on my 272.

G

Or perhaps I should take the sensible approach and just buy some Witch Hat Hat Pins and N2 NACA 5 alike for a great deal less.

Would I actually hear any difference? Don’t know, ergo quandary.

Thanks all, approaching analysis paralysis .

KR, J

analogmusic posted:

Badlands - by the way I had the chance to compare with Dynaudio excite X44 to the new Contour 60.

I'm not surprised you can't hear the benefits of cables or amplifier upgrades (after all you state that the 282/250 isn't that much better than the SN2) - well it's so obvious to me, the Excite range is very basic (after all, entry level just above the emit range) and just doesn't have the resolution to show these changes.

At this level of 282/250 and Superlumina cables, these are fairly hi-end kit, and you just can't hear the benefits of this with such basic Dynaudio speakers. I'm quite surprised you continue to post your opinions based on experience with such an entry level speaker.

The X44 sounded crude, broken, and completely unlistenable compared to the Contour 60.

My opinion, but there's no way the Excite range should be used to make serious evaluations.

 

 

Analog, you're exhausting! Nothing in your reply remotely addresses my views or experiences, and again for the umpteenth time, you have misquoted me.

Just an FYI, if the Excite line can't be used to make serious evaluations, which is a totally ridiculous statement, then neither can the Focus line of speakers be used, which you seem to base most of your opinions on.

By the way, I no longer own Dynaudio speakers!

Dr_J posted:

Or perhaps I should take the sensible approach and just buy some Witch Hat Hat Pins and N2 NACA 5 alike for a great deal less.

Would I actually hear any difference? Don’t know, ergo quandary.

Thanks all, approaching analysis paralysis .

KR, J

Not really until your source is delivering.

Phil

Huge posted:

Filipe posted:

Fully agree on both points. I will very probably keep the 555DR I have on loan for my nDAC and sell my almost 2 year old XPSDR. Dealer can’t offer much because they have to add 20% VAT. I don’t like eBay.

Phil

It sounds like the dealer is being "economical with the truth".

They only have to add 20% VAT to the difference between their purchase cost from you and their eventual selling price (including postage if any).  That's why it's called Value Added Tax.

They don't pay any tax on the part of selling price that they used to buy it from you - to them that's a pure business expense that can be paid directly from pre-tax funds.

Absolutely right, Huge. The VAT scheme for retailers dealing in second-hand goods is well know. As you say, they are obliged to add VAT only on their margin.  Indeed, even new, they deduct as input tax the VAT that Naim charges them when they buy kit at trade prices, and so the retailer is effectively paying VAT only on the difference between the trade price and the retail price charged to the customer.  

I would buy the SL 

that's right if you think its too good to be true then it is not.electronics before cables,

I would definitely buy a new rack

Dr_J posted:

Or perhaps I should take the sensible approach and just buy some Witch Hat Hat Pins and N2 NACA 5 alike for a great deal less.

Would I actually hear any difference? Don’t know, ergo quandary.

Thanks all, approaching analysis paralysis .

KR, J

The decision is yours to make. Since you have listened to the Super Lumina in your system and heard a profound difference, you now know that it is an improvement to the Chord Epic Twin that you have. The Witch Hat or other speaker cable alternatives, you will need to try them to find out whether you will hear any difference.

I presume you are sitting on the fence with the Super Lumina since you are still considering other options. The question of whether the Super Lumina is sensible money at less than half the price, only you can answer that yourself. A 5m pair of Super Lumina costs £3,245 and half that is £1,600 which is still a lot of money (which may partly explain why it sounded superior to most alternatives). I got my brand new Chord Epic Twin 4m pair at less than £300 which has proven to be a nice upgrade from the NAC A5 at a rather down-to-earth price. No earth shattering difference between the Chord Epic and NAC A5 but the subtle improvements are rather nice. 

Good luck in your decision. 

analogmusic posted:

I can't agree with some of the posts here, for me the DIN/XLR upgrade is a "Must do" upgrade, before any PSU upgrade.

I would say the changes brought about by changing the speaker cable from NACA5 to SL rival or exceed black box changes.

My opinion.

Badlands - by the way I had the chance to compare with Dynaudio excite X44 to the new Contour 60.

I'm not surprised you can't hear the benefits of cables or amplifier upgrades (after all you state that the 282/250 isn't that much better than the SN2) - well it's so obvious to me, the Excite range is very basic (after all, entry level just above the emit range) and just doesn't have the resolution to show these changes.

At this level of 282/250 and Superlumina cables, these are fairly hi-end kit, and you just can't hear the benefits of this with such basic Dynaudio speakers. I'm quite surprised you continue to post your opinions based on experience with such an entry level speaker.

The X44 sounded crude, broken, and completely unlistenable compared to the Contour 60.

My opinion, but there's no way the Excite range should be used to make serious evaluations.

 

 

Badlands like all of us is entitled to post his opinion. I agree with maybe 30% Of what I read on here and the things I don’t agree with are as important as that 30% especially when making a decision .

If we all agreed it would be a pretty boring and uninformed forum we might as well read all just the heavily biased Naim reviews in the HIFI press. 

ryder. posted:

Dr_J posted:

Or perhaps I should take the sensible approach and just buy some Witch Hat Hat Pins and N2 NACA 5 alike for a great deal less.

Would I actually hear any difference? Don’t know, ergo quandary.

Thanks all, approaching analysis paralysis .

KR, J

The decision is yours to make. Since you have listened to the Super Lumina in your system and heard a profound difference, you now know that it is an improvement to the Chord Epic Twin that you have. The Witch Hat or other speaker cable alternatives, you will need to try them to find out whether you will hear any difference.

I presume you are sitting on the fence with the Super Lumina since you are still considering other options. The question of whether the Super Lumina is sensible money at less than half the price, only you can answer that yourself. A 5m pair of Super Lumina costs £3,245 and half that is £1,600 which is still a lot of money (which may partly explain why it sounded superior to most alternatives). I got my brand new Chord Epic Twin 4m pair at less than £300 which has proven to be a nice upgrade from the NAC A5 at a rather down-to-earth price. No earth shattering difference between the Chord Epic and NAC A5 but the subtle improvements are rather nice. 

Good luck in your decision. 

 

Decision made, pre-owned SL DIN-XLR and speaker cables ordered, really too good an opportunity to pass up, and I suspect, as with many other things, there’s a lot of money to be frittered away buying multiple second bests in the belief one of them will turn out to be unexpectedly better than one’s original first choice.

Thanks again all for the words of wisdom.

KR, J

All the best with it. It's unlikely you'll be disappointed.

Good call. I'm sure you won't regret it.

Hope you enjoy them,just give them plenty of time to settle in.